Need the Net, but Have No Money

[ProJiJi]

This thread is essentially a continuation of discussion in another thread, and my first post here is specifically a continuation of this post: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/419935-Yahoo-Is-It-Down-For-You#post2791901

My contention was that those with a Windows 7 32-bit OS have not been able to access their Yahoo email accounts since early this year.

I have very clear documentation that as of December 22nd last year the same Yahoo email accounts could be accessed using a Windows 7 32-bit OS.

But I am not sure how the following written statement in that post relates to this issue of not being able to access a Yahoo email account, nor how it relates to not being able to afford an updated OS:

Free options are better than no options if you can't afford the couple of dollars a month.

I do think, though, it is best to start a new thread.

So I am respectfully requesting some clarification of that which I have quoted.

Thank you.

[ProJiJi]

It would also be wise to include some opinions from others that may be of value:
https://superuser.com/questions/1201295/is-it-possible-to-install-a-64-bit-os-on-32-bit-pc

One example from that discussion is:

A 32 bit CPU can't run 64 bit code "by design". Consequently, it can't boot a 64 bit OS which by definition contains a 64 bit kernel.

OS installers are well aware of this fact so refuse to install a 64 bit OS on 32 bit hardware in the first place.

[davexnet]

I can access yahoo mail using the Firefox web browser, Windows 7 32-bit

Are you talking about a specific scenario ?

[ProJiJi]

I can access yahoo mail using the Firefox web browser, Windows 7 32-bit

Are you talking about a specific scenario ?

Thank you very much, as now I hope a ray of positive waves is aimed at this matter.

Since January 22nd, JST, you are the first I have received a reply that you are able to access Yahoo mail using 32bit Win7 unit.

But may I confirm that you are using the FireFox ESR browser?

Again, thank you.

[davexnet]

Yes, the latest, this one:
https://www.firefox.com/en-US/firefox/115.32.0/releasenotes/?redirect_source=mozilla-o...n=about-dialog

[thecoalman]

So I am respectfully requesting some clarification of that which I have quoted.

If you can't afford to pay for email hosting a free option is better than no option.

It would also be wise to include some opinions from others that may be of value:
https://superuser.com/questions/1201295/is-it-possible-to-install-a-64-bit-os-on-32-bit-pc

That's not an opinion. it's impossible to run 64bit software on 32 bit.. 64 bit offers many advantages over 32 bit, chief among them more than 4GB of memory. That's a hard limit on 32 bit.

That's besides the point, as I already noted the reason you are being blocked is likely because of an outdated browser. It's strongly advisable to ditch windows 7 and install Linux. Running an OS that hasn't received updates in 6 years even with an updated browser is just asking to get hacked.

[ProJiJi]

From events that have taken place over the past few hours or so there are management individuals at AskWoody that disagree about installing a 64bit OS on 32bit hardware; as in the evidence is their top management thinks it is okay to install a 64bit OS on 32bit built hardware. That is a sad event, actually. If anyone cares to see the evidence of my statement, please let me know. Really not something I would have expected from them.

Now, about this outdated browser thing. I also used the FireFox ESR 115.32.0 and, unlike davexnet, was not able to access my Yahoo account.

Now this idea about Windows 7 and updates; I still receive . . . Well, let me show you:

Security Intelligence Update for Windows Defender Antivirus - KB915597 (Version 1.443.989.0) - Current Channel (Broad)

Installation date: ‎2/‎4/‎2026 7:41 AM

Installation status: Successful

Update type: Important

Install this update to revise the files that are used to detect viruses, spyware, and other potentially unwanted software. Once you have installed this item, it cannot be removed.

More information:
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=2007160

Help and Support:
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=52661

As for anyone interested in hacking this Windows 7 unit, they'd be wasting their time. All they would find is my research; like right here and what just happened over at AskWoody. Oh yes, and what happened over at phpBB. Yes, that was me.

Well, there will soon be publication of all this research, but I don't think that need be discussed here. And if that were hacked, I'd be very happy. It would place evidence in more hands.

You see, folks; after many centuries, serfdom has returned to human society. It's call the Internet.

Well, maybe that timestamp of "many centuries" isn't quite right in some nations on this planet.

But back to the main point here in this thread; you are sure, davexnet, that you have accessed a Yahoo email account in 2026? The last time I have in my records of a successful logging into a Yahoo account was December 22nd, last year, so one update earlier than the January 13th one. I might also have used Supermium, as well as FireFox.

Apologies, davexnet, but just want to be double sure. That information is going to require I go into another website for more research. Especially as it is now clear that AskWoody is no longer a reliable tech site for information.

Again, if anyone wants to see my files on the AskWoody case, just ask and I'll be happy to show them to you.

[pandy]

Alternatively you can:

- use bootable (USB?) WinPE to get minimal functionality OS with higher rev than Win7,
- use bootable Linux distribution,
- use virtual machine with higher Windows version or virtual machine with some Linux distribution.

[ProJiJi]

The bootable USB stick idea came up on AskWoody as we were exploring options and if you go to Linux you will see that there are no tech folks that state we can use a bootable USB 64bit Linux OS to a 32bit Win7 unit.

In fact, I did try it, though. And got the result it seemed like all the super techs were stating would result - trouble. A lot of it, too.

Now that "virtual machine" idea did not arise as an option, that I can remember as I type, in the discussion on AskWoody. But I do recall I have something about that in some of my notes, but don't remember why.

And Number One of the three options you listed isn't an option I am familiar with, I don't think. If it did get into my notes it was pushed under the rug, in a manner of expressing it.

Thank you for your post, I'll study that in my tomorrow. I am in the JST timezone and had better get my garbage out for can day and then get some sleep. it is just about 2100hrs here. And I haven't even taken my medicine my doctor requires every day.

EDIT: We have very strict rules here in Japan about what garbage goes out for picking up and on what day. Every other Friday in this AO is cans. Just a bit of odd info in case someone thought what I wrote as a sidenote was weird.

[thecoalman]

The bootable USB stick idea came up on AskWoody as we were exploring options and if you go to Linux you will see that there are no tech folks that state we can use a bootable USB 64bit Linux OS to a 32bit Win7 unit.

If you have a 32 bit system why would you even try to use 64 bit OS when 32 bit Linux OS is available?

[pandy]

Hardware capable to run Windows 7 is 64 bit anyway so using 32 bit is purely personal decision... Of course Linux from some time abandoning 32 bit versions (they are even consider to abandon CPU's not supporting AVX instruction set) but still i don't understand why use Windows 7 in 32 bit - i currently using very old Lenovo (IBM) notebook (Thinkpad T400) and Windows 7 but 64 bit (on 6/8GB RAM) - it works sufficiently good for regular. everyday tasks.

[ProJiJi]

The 2 units that are the initial focus of this project were both refurbished (upgraded from the Vista OS) by IBM and given to me by IBM way back after some work I did for them. Very likely easily passed off like that for the very reason they were 32bit architecture and somebody felt they were of no further use to them. Especially as my contract with them wasn't really anything so special. Maybe some manager felt it was a better way to sort of get rid of them, than to dump them in a trash bin. Or whatever they do with their junk. I don't think they are allowed to sell such used equipment. And I had been using both of them for the work under the contract I did for them.

But the original research has taken an odd turn, with some apparently respected MVP status individuals at AskWoody apparently disagreeing with common practices outlined at Linux and disagreement with a manager at AskWoody. And possibly an admin stepping into that with actions of her own. I suppose I shouldn't identify "her" in this post, but it is easy to find out who took Woody's position on the site after Woody passed on.

In fact, the reach of this research has now included Intel and will include another company at a future date. Eventually, it will have to reach Yahoo, but that will have to be snail mail and include SoftBank, my ISP now. They bought Yahoo ISP services here in Japan. But I will add the main office of Yahoo in the U.S. in the distribution, and index that in all copies. Next week I have an appointment to receive legal advice on adding regulatory agencies in the distribution. I used to work in Kasumigaseki, so that isn't too difficult to accomplish.

[pandy]

The 2 units that are the initial focus of this project were both refurbished (upgraded from the Vista OS) by IBM and given to me by IBM way back after some work I did for them. Very likely easily passed off like that for the very reason they were 32bit architecture and somebody felt they were of no further use to them. Especially as my contract with them wasn't really anything so special. Maybe some manager felt it was a better way to sort of get rid of them, than to dump them in a trash bin. Or whatever they do with their junk. I don't think they are allowed to sell such used equipment. And I had been using both of them for the work under the contract I did for them.

You have (probably) embedded license (stored in part of so called BIOS - this is SLIC entry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS?useskin=vector#Identification ) so you can legally install 64 bit Windows 7 (or perhaps higher).
OEM Windows 7 should be already activated after installation - personally i would check this path first - after all you probably can update Windows to 10 legally.

[ProJiJi]

It would be quite impolite if I were not to respond to your last post, pandy. I hope I'll be excused for taking too long to do so, but I tried another tech site and that has become a disaster, which is not too surprising.

BUT, also an absolutely amazing educational experience because i figured something out about 5AM JST, and that "something" started as "The Apollo 13 Moment" and then was downgraded to "Log 13" but that then got me in trouble because I tried to explain in basic terms what I had as a vision and the Mod/Admin team at that site removed my post within minutes. No surprise there. I get tech people really upset over and over and over. But that brain flash about 5AM told my brain what was wrong. And it was one event during that Apollo 13 mission which I realized explains perfectly what that "something" is.

But now to your suggestion, pandy. You are very likely correct. Some reason that idea did not cross my desk or my desktop. That was a very good suggestion, by the way. Good thinking there. I appreciate that.

But there is a big problem, pandy. I don't trust Microsoft any longer. I do not want any Windows 10 or Windows 11. I do not use Edge and even removed all Edge stuff from this unit, to include cleaning it out of the registry. Yes, Microsoft can still stick a popup onto my screen from time-to-time about using Edge, but that has, so far, been about all they can do. But a person has to be super careful because the tech employees at Microsoft are super clever at sneaking stuff onto our systems, even when we have repeatedly stated we don't want the stuff.

So that is a long explanation as to why I don't want to upgrade, even though you came up with a great idea. You outdid a whole group of supposedly hotshot tech folks elsewhere that didn't think of that.

Now, I did find a partial solution to the basic problem. That came about yesterday before I went to bed. One reason that Apollo 13 idea came to me after about 6 hours of sleep.

But it is only a partial solution.

And I am not so sure the site owner here can stand my continuing with what should be the full solution. The "full solution" is not good for business folks.

The first part of the solution I could explain in proper detail here, if anyone is interested. The second part of the solution I have already started more detailed discussion with my host company on maybe them (he) allowing me to do it.

By the way, my host company found a very interesting solution to another Net system trouble they and I discovered. That was discovered last night by them while I was sleeping. It was a very interesting discovery.

[pandy]

But there is a big problem, pandy. I don't trust Microsoft any longer. I do not want any Windows 10 or Windows 11. I do not use Edge and even removed all Edge stuff from this unit, to include cleaning it out of the registry. Yes, Microsoft can still stick a popup onto my screen from time-to-time about using Edge, but that has, so far, been about all they can do. But a person has to be super careful because the tech employees at Microsoft are super clever at sneaking stuff onto our systems, even when we have repeatedly stated we don't want the stuff.

I never trusted Microsoft to be honest - personally i think best Windows NT ever was Windows 2000, XP and 7 was way worse (especially 7) - but there is simple solution for this lack of trust - Linux - nowadays it can be viable alternative to Windows - more and more things work good and comparable to Windows.

[Columbo]

but there is simple solution for this lack of trust - Linux - nowadays it can viable alternative to Windows

I'll second that. I've converted 3 of my 4 systems to linux and they ain't going back!

[ProJiJi]

If I may ask, please; are either of you, pandy or Columbo, in the "proficient' category in the use of Linux?

Thank you.

[Columbo]

[never mind]

[ProJiJi]

Thank you for the quick response, but it is just past 2100hrs here in Japan and I just took my first round of medicine and the second round will be soon and soon after that I better be in bed.

But I decided to follow pandy's advice and I have had quite the Linux adventure over the past 48 hours or so with the older 32-bit Cindy, then twice the Bookwormpup64. I used the Universal USB Installer for Cindy, (all on bootable USB sticks) and I suppose an error was using the Universal USB Installer again with the first round of Bookworm. Then did it again with Rufus.

And some really amazing happenings with all three and two Fujitsu laptops with Windows 7.

But that is just a quick summary and this adventure is far from over, I'm sure.

BUT, best to start a new thread as this Linux discussion takes us a fair bit off of the main points of this thread.

One conclusion of all this work over the past few weeks is I am going snail mail with this Yahoo stuff and use distribution to SoftBank, as I already have connections with one of their executives and they own a bunch of the shares of Yahoo. I am rather sure I also need to include a regulatory agency in Singapore in the distribution, as they were mighty interested in some of this about a week ago when I had a talk with them. Two of my Yahoo accounts were tagged as sg from some 20 years ago, but one was untagged; the other still requires the tag. There's no other way around this; Yahoo has certain responsibilities toward their customers and this business of cutting off millions of customers still using the Windows 7 32-bit, no matter why, should have been informed they were going to be cut off. This happening has also crossed four tech platforms and the information that came in from various people in those Communities is very useful. That also included Intel Corporation, but that was a sort of accident as they found out from somebody else I'd been communicating with. The Intel people weren't so happy with some of what I've dug up. They already know my research work from way back when I was doing work for both Google and IBM.

But then I stepped into the Linux Typhoon and that is quite a surprise. I knew the Anderson fella back some 20 years or so ago and he wrote some fine material and there was another that he helped with edits and revisions and what I am seeing now is - - - well, if the Linux / Debian folks want to make their services/products more appealing to a larger share of the Net Community, there is need for some reset.

But it would be best to move this Linux project to a new thread.

Oh yes, if somebody asked you what goes with "London" as part of a security check, what do you answer? I guess "England" was wrong. Maybe "Bridge" was correct, but by that time they had thrown two more weird ones at me and then stated three was the limit for one day. That sort of stuff reminds us old folks of that show of the 60s "Get Smart" - - - as in super weird.

Okay, out of here for now; but again, thanks for the quick response.

[GAhere]

32 bit vs 64 bit OS is a "red herring" or "rabbit hole"

64 bit W7 WILL have the same problem.

Have you tried some troubleshooting of your browser?

Disable ALL addon extensions, restart FF and try logging on. Sometimes when addons like Ublock, adblock and No script update they may interfere with normal browser operation on some websites unless you check the configuration (an add exceptions).

Additionally check your FF settings, make sure under browser privacy that it is set to STANDARD not strict, as strict can break websites functionality.

[cholla]

I'm late to this discussion.
I am using:
Windows 7 Home Premium
Copyright © 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Service Pack 1 32-bit Operating System

I have no plans to change to Linux or to a newer Windows any time soon.

I'm using two Portable version of these browsers.
Both can access & use Yahoo Mail.
They have been able to do this even when several reported having problems with Yahoo web site & Yahoo Mail.

This one still updates:
Firefox Browser
Extended Support Release
115.32.0esr (32-bit)

This one no longer updates the browser:
Opera
Version:95.0.4635.84

I could test with XP or Vista as I have both on partitions.
I have not tested because I never use these online any more.
Not as Virtual but actual installed working OS's.

@ GAhere,
I'm using uBlock but I only use my own custom filter.
I also use a very long hosts file.
I occasionally need to disable one or both to access some web sites but not Yahoo.
Same for I don't care about cookies.
So all extensions do not need to be disabled.

I use Custom browser settings in FF:

[Attachment 91188 - Click to enlarge]

[GAhere]

Something to consider, many, many websites are moving on in life. They are adding new features that were not ever thought about or existed in older web browsers and making those features an important part of the website and if the browser version does not have the capability of the newer features the website will not work.

Yahoo like most, have moved on.

There "take" is this per their support pages..

"Supported web browsers for Yahoo products

Most Yahoo products are browser-based and work best with the newest version (excluding "beta") of the browsers listed below. Yahoo features may not work properly if you're using an older operating system (which can't be updated) or an outdated or unsupported browser."

While I cannot find exactly what their "cut off" is, I did see some postings from other forums that state they have moved to supporting only the latest major version and TWO previous major versions.

FF current major version is 147 which means as of right now 145 would be the last they fully support.

115 ESR is very long in tooth and is missing a lot of the functionality of 145 and higher not to mention security flaw fixes.

What is a guy going to do?

Well several options, move on to a newer OS which can run the newer browser versions above 115ESR or live with and accept the fact that eventually websites will no longer be accessible on your PC.

There is a third option, but it is highly experimental, there is a group of developers which have managed to hack the newer versions of FF to work with Win7

They call their version r3dfox..

As far as your Defender being updated, that is the built in ANTIVIRUS software that MS included in Win7 and higher, Defender on Win7 IS still getting new virus definitions and even software updates, for now.. That to is most likely going to cease whenever MS gets around to rewriting the Defender software.

Your Win7 OS, unless you have been a Enterprise user (Commercial, Corporate Server/network systems) should not be getting any OS updates to plug the newer found security holes which may affect older OS versions.

[GAhere]

I'm late to this discussion.
I am using:
Windows 7 Home Premium
Copyright © 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Service Pack 1 32-bit Operating System

I have no plans to change to Linux or to a newer Windows any time soon.

I'm using two Portable version of these browsers.
Both can access & use Yahoo Mail.
They have been able to do this even when several reported having problems with Yahoo web site & Yahoo Mail.

This one still updates:
Firefox Browser
Extended Support Release
115.32.0esr (32-bit)

This one no longer updates the browser:
Opera
Version:95.0.4635.84

I could test with XP or Vista as I have both on partitions.
I have not tested because I never use these online any more.
Not as Virtual but actual installed working OS's.

@ GAhere,
I'm using uBlock but I only use my own custom filter.
I also use a very long hosts file.
I occasionally need to disable one or both to access some web sites but not Yahoo.
Same for I don't care about cookies.
So all extensions do not need to be disabled.

I use Custom browser settings in FF:

[Attachment 91188 - Click to enlarge]

I should have mentioned, disabling all extensions is one way to troubleshoot.

Disable all, try again.

Then enable one at a time until you break the website. Break the website and now you have found the culprit..

Your screen shot may be a good point for the OP to check their settings since you can get into Yahoo mail with those.

It should be also noted that just because 115 ESR is getting "updates" that doesn't mean it is getting newer added features or functionally.. it only means they are adding SECURITY or STABILITY "fixes" and that IS coming to an end shortly here in 2026.. Mozilla is dropping those this year..

On edit, it is good to know that you are able to get into Yahoo mail with 115 ESR, there is a lot of things that can prevent one from accessing a website.. OP is in Japan, their routing may be different from other countries, IPs can get blacklisted/blocked as well as ISPs.

Something else OP could try is to try private mode which will ignore any cookies that have been placed on their PC..

Sometimes even deleting all browser cookies AND emptying the browser cache can be helpful in troubleshooting..

[cholla]

I do have two PCs with Windows 7 64-bit.
I'm on one right now my laptop.
I will use Windows 7 as long as it works for me.
So far I have not needed any "new" features & do not even know what they are.
Because evrything I do on a browser has worked.
The main problem I have had is some software no longer supports Windows 7.
No stability problems I can tell.

I used Windows 98SE until it no longer worked. Same for XP & Vista.
The last two can still be used some. I keep them because of some old software on them.
I can use those if I need to.

I believe this was for the OP as I have never used Windows Defender.
I use Avast & some other anti malware software.
I have detected a virus trying to get in but none ever have so far.
So even without MS security updates I have been OK.

For the OP being in Japan maybe he needs a geo-location spoofer.
I do not need it & do not know if it works for Windows 7 & 115.32.0esr (32-bit).
Location Guard
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/location-guard/

This is the version of FireFox portable I am using. You will probably need to let it update the first time you open it.
https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox-portable-legacy-115

[pandy]

If I may ask, please; are either of you, pandy or Columbo, in the "proficient' category in the use of Linux?

Thank you.

Define meaning "proficient"... Largely Windows acquire Unix-like functionality - in fact since Windows 10 Microsoft embedded Linux (special version named Windows Subsystem for Linux).
I use Windows 7 on Thinkpad t400 and Thinkpad w500 so machines are like 20 years old but due software problems i consider moving at least on one of machines to Linux. And yes i have no problems to use Linux - it was my primary OS in one of the former companies i worked (they produced network equipment so Linux was simply better than Windows).

[GAhere]

I believe this was for the OP as I have never used Windows Defender.
I use Avast & some other anti malware software.
I have detected a virus trying to get in but none ever have so far.
So even without MS security updates I have been OK.

Yes, I was addressing the OP as they showed that their Defender was still receiving updates.

Basically just getting new virus definitions only.

Defender like any other antivirus doesn't fix security flaws or stability issues of the OS.

And yes, I used Win 95, Win98SE and XP until most websites no longer worked, long, long past the OS expiration..

I have encountered some websites that do refuse to work with FF 115 ESR, mainly financial and health related webpages which have enabled higher security protocols implemented in newer browsers above 115 ESR so it isn't a uncommon problem with using way outdated browsers.

As far as not needing or never needing a newer browser, there will become a time of reckoning that 115 ESR will not work for many websites as the newer versions are not just rearranging the deck chairs of the Titanic, they will have newer security protocols, newer web page functions that work in the background to render the page on your PC.

As far as the W10 hate, well I don't like it myself, but I don't like Win7 either but I did find myself NEEDING to move on from XP as I did with Win95 and Win98SE.

There ARE very good ways to fix the extra junk in Win10, one of the best is from O&O software called Shut up 10/11, you can disable the telemetry, the tattle tale nanny stuff like Cortana and AI garbage, also disable the automatic updates and is my "go to" for taming W10 and it also works in W11. By the way Shut up 10/11 IS FREE, does not need to install and is a standalone exe file.

[The_Doman]

Your Win7 OS, unless you have been a Enterprise user (Commercial, Corporate Server/network systems) should not be getting any OS updates to plug the newer found security holes which may affect older OS versions.

Of course there is the Simplix UpdatePack 7 with which you could keep your Windows 7 update.
The last final version was released last month:

Simplix UpdatePack 7 26.1.15

[Attachment 91189 - Click to enlarge]

Another thing is to update the Root Certificates for Window 7 and older.
If not this also possible can be the cause of secure connection problems.

Google: Windows 7 update Root Certificates
Github: asheroto/UpdateRootCertificates

[ProJiJi]

This has become complicated to the point that I'll need to go slow in studying the new responses here and provide correct answers to various questions.

Please allow me some time, pandy, to answer yours.

Same with the other new participants here.

BUT, let me please emphasize what I view as a key component of this situation; I was last able to access my Yahoo accounts using my Supermium and FireFox ESR in November and December of last year. I keep logs of all that stuff. I use software to save browser history, cache, cookies before any cleaning up of a browser.

Then starting on January 22nd of this year Supermium and FireFox wouldn't let me into a Yahoo account, except for one time I got into a YMail account, which was a surprise. I attempted that logging in as a lark while I was in the middle of trying to figure out other Yahoo related matters.

Okay, so I keep reasonably up to date on this-and-that related to algorithm changes in various Net services. I am aware of this-or-that shortcomings with older software, and all that relates to.

BUT, when millions of customers around the globe are "suddenly" cut off from their email service because of a code change and that email provider did not provide advance notice that was going to happen, something is way-way-way wrong.

And I have an excellent log of so many tech-savvy folks on sites around the Net providing the response that sort of thing is to be expected if one is using an older OS - - - well, that sort of makes me nervous. Especially as Windows 7 32-bit is NOT really that old.

Let us say that a million people around the globe bought a certain kind of fridge 10 years ago and then suddenly ALL those fridges stopped working and the company that designed and manufactured that fridge knew that would happen, but failed to tell the customers; what do you think folks would be responding with?

'I deserved that sort of treatment.' / 'I should have bought a newer fridge a year ago.' / Or such answers like that.

AND the company: 'You should know our products only last ten years.' / Or similar style answers.

Now would that be acceptable to the general populations of this globe called Earth?

Is the Internet and related technology so different in our modern days that we shouldn't expect the same sort of longevity in our Internet/Tech products as our parents expected in their refrigerators or cars or hot water heaters or air cons?

I am having a very hard time wrapping my head around this new style of thought process that relates to Internet technology which seems to be situated around spending money on new stuff about every five years or so or don't complain when we cut you off.

AND, a whole bunch of that "new technology" is NOT for safety reasons. It is for money. New data gathering techniques. New ways to allow companies to insert adverts into software. I have in my files somewhere from last year, or last month (sort of recent) where a Mozilla update sort of hid the "Other" reasons for the update and the security aspects were so easy to see. And I know from actual experience that Google engages in that style of operating. Following Google's algorithm changes is easier than many realize. But they don't fully explain some of the reasons to the average customer.

In fact, that word "customer" is even frowned upon. We're "Users" like some category of human that should not expect polite style customer treatment. And this new attitude is being picked up by younger folks that don't know about that old style world where "customers" should be treated with some respect and courtesy.

I remember when "respect and courtesy" were key words when GMail was launched and was drilled into us by the likes of Sarah, when she was the boss at GMail. Now we can't even get any Google employee to respond to even . . . well, not at all.

There is a sort of thinking and attitude on the New Net that scares me a whole bunch, but I am not going to live long enough to see what is done about that. Or if it is even recognized as such. But I have years of files on this. And I am also very guilty. I didn't see this coming; not soon enough. I know for a fact I helped launch some folks into them starting up platforms on their own and they are doing this exact thing - serfdom. We are back to the old surface days of little kingdoms all over the place battling each other and stepping on their citizens. If you don't believe that, just compare what rights you have in the brick-and-mortar world and the Internet world. In fact, there are so many out there that don't even think there is such a thing as an "Internet world" and tell you the Internet is just like the invention of the printing press, the radio, the television.

And I suppose some of you will just view this post as a rant by some old man who is living in the past, and all that goes with that thought process. Maybe you're right. We'll be seeing. If I live long enough. Seems so odd that many years ago bullets and explosive devices didn't do me in, but a thing called cancer that I can't even see will do the job. In fact, I even got super lucky a few times while engaged in that stupid trick of flying fixed wing and rotor wing. I mean, there's a reason for gravity, right? We're meant to stay in our place, right on the surface. Birds fly, humans walk. And we should stick to Mr. Bell's invention and not play games with this thing called the Internet. Master Sun could disable our phones and the Net, if that master wishes to.

[ProJiJi]

The definition of "proficient" could start with whether you access your terminal with # (root) or whether you have a User ID showing when you first load your terminal? Do you use LXTerminal?

As for the observation about liking or disliking Windows 7, I think I didn't have any choice back a number of years ago, when my host insisted if I wanted to use their servers I had to update my work station. I really don't remember if I liked Windows 7 when I first started to use it. I'm not so sure I had time to care.

BUT, I did have time to find out that Windows 8 was a disaster, and that was why the 8.1 was put out there.

Then Windows 10 was when Microsoft really started showing their hand and none of us had even a pair of aces when that game first started. Plus I started getting heat from Microsoft engineers over some matters that didn't help the situation. And as I pretty much went into a retirement phase back some ten years ago, I didn't much care about my relationship with Microsoft.

But I was sort of dragged out of retirement early last year when the "Super Bots" really caused super trouble on a number of sites. The member thecoalman knows very well about that subject in his work on another site. What I don't think he knew was my earlier work with that platform many years ago. I still have those files/logs, too.

I'm just trying to explain, pandy, that I didn't much care about what condition Windows 7 was in after I kind of retired. I rarely take myself into dangerous territory on the Net, anymore.

The absolute best security on the Net is one's own brain and situational awareness. Like walking down the pavement and stepping around a puddle. There is no super software security service that can protect the really stupid people that walk over cliffs.

[cholla]

expect the same sort of longevity in our Internet/Tech products as our parents expected in their refrigerators or cars or hot water heaters or air cons?

@ ProJiJi,
You used a term & a lot of people do "HOT water heater".
The correct term is water heater.If the water was already hot you wouldn't need to heat it.

So you know my refrigerator,washing machine & pickup left 10 years so far back you can't even see it in the rear view mirror.

One kind of air conditioner I use an evaporative cooler lasts maybe 6 years if I'm lucky.
This is because of the high mineral salts content in the reservoir my city gets its' water from.
Same for the water heater but about 10 years for it.
My other air conditioners refrigerated window units last many years.
Even my newest appliance a dishwasher has about 6 years on it now & still seems to be working fine.
So everything is not "crap".

But MS is crooked as a dogs hind leg & makes a good OS obsolete so you have to buy a new one.
Or learn a new one like linux. Which has its' own problems because of less software availability.
This has gotten better but not caught up with Windows yet.

Then people like me still have a lot of software for Windows.
So stuck in the revolving door.