VHS to Digital

[97browng]

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to convert some VHS tapes to a digital and have been reading several different forums and articles for weeks and just seem to be going around in circles. In fact I started looking about 2 years ago and had to stop and have now come back again. I am using PAL and a lot of info seems to be for NTSC.

I have what I hope is suitable hardware and if possible would like to use what I have got. This is what I have:

* Daewoo DF-4100P VCR/DVD Combo with HDMI Out (Head cleaned and outputting a decent quality image)
* HDMI Splitter
* Blackmagic Intensity shuttle USB
* About 12 VCRs with home recorded footage from a variety of recording devices (all clean and outputting a decent image)
* Everything is PAL as I am from the UK

I don't expect perfect results but if possible would like to deal with it in 3 stages:

1 - Set the VCR settings correctly
2 - Set the capture device correctly and rip the VHS as best as possible with what I have and keep as an archive (file size is not and issue)
3 - Convert to something more user friendly and improve the image to a reasonable quality.

So as a starter is somebody able to help me with the first stage which is configuring the the VCR.

TV Size - 4:3 or 16:9 (I have been going for 4:3 as this is what the original media will be and I don't want anything stretched)
Picture Format - Letterbox or Auto or Centre (I have chosen centre)
Digital Audio - PCM or Bitstream or Off (I have chosen PCM)
Video Output - 576i or 576p or RGB or 720p or 1080i (I have gone for 576i as I assume this is what the original media would be)

I know this seems like very basic questions but I keep going around in circles. Hopefully once this is sorted I can move onto the next stage which is the capture in blackmagic.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

[Alwyn]

TV Size: 4:3 (or whatever gives you 4:3 in your capture software, noting that AmarecTV and VDub, if capturing lossless AVI, will display 5:4), Correct, correct, correct.

Next!

[97browng]

Thanks for the quick response.

OK so the next step is actually setting the capture device and then getting the footage. So I am using Blackmagic Media Express to capture the footage as that's what came with the capture card. I could use OBS studio if that was a better option, I did try VitualDub and it would not work with the card unfortunately.

So if I use Blackmagic these are the options and what I have selected. Any suggestions?


[Attachment 89121 - Click to enlarge]

[97browng]

Anyone able to let me know if the settings above are correct? Thanks

[97browng]

I realise I should have shown the options, so this is what Blackmagic Offers

Video Format Options

[Attachment 89219 - Click to enlarge]

Capture Format Options

[Attachment 89220 - Click to enlarge]

[davexnet]

Possibly. Best to do some short test captures and post one here for analysis.
10-15 seconds should be enough

[97browng]

Possibly. Best to do some short test captures and post one here for analysis.
10-15 seconds should be enough

Thanks for that I have now included some videos for you to look at. I have tried to get roughly the same 10 second clips for each, but they are big boys

Test - QT DVCPro 50.mov

Test - QT 10bit RGB.mov

Test - QT 10bit YUV.mov

Test - QT 8bit YUV.mov

Test - 10bit RGB.avi

Test - 10bit YUV.avi

Test - 8bit YUV.avi

Ignore the high pitch noise at the start, that is part of the original recording for some reason and fades after a bit (plus I can remove when editing).

[Sharc]

Taking a quick look at your 8bit YUVs:

YUV422, 720x576, 25fps interlaced, TFF (Top field first). So basically ok.
The left border looks unusual though for a PAL capture. The width of the active picture (means excluding the black sidebars) should normally be 702....704 pixels. Now it is approx. 690 pixels with a strange bar on the left. The head switching noise at the bottom is about 704 pixels wide, as expected.

[davexnet]

For those using basic USB capture devices such as Hauppauge Live-2 or i-o data gv-usb2 on a Windows PC,
the typical advice is to use a fast capture codec such as the UT video codec
and capture at SD resolution (as you have done) using 8-bit, 422 chroma sub-sampling. The capture codec
provides fast lossless compression which works well

If you have a fast computer and plenty of disk space you could probably use any the SD formats
although you should bear in mind the codec used and it's suitability for what ever editor you later use
on the footage.

This guy uses the AVI 8-bit YUV, he seems to know what he's doing, but he doesn't even mention the codec.
BUt as you've seen, it uses uncompressed video so the files will be massive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzKHwgjOBzI @ timestamp 7:31

Possible useful info in this thread/forum:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=78838

Interestingly enough, some of the articles on the interweb recommend Apple Prores 422
but I dont see it as an option in your setup

I think the DVCpro is good enough, whether it's fast enough to capture without the potential
for dropping frames, I don't really know.

[97browng]

Taking a quick look at your 8bit YUVs:

YUV422, 720x576, 25fps interlaced, TFF (Top field first). So basically ok.
The left border looks unusual though for a PAL capture. The width of the active picture (means excluding the black sidebars) should normally be 702....704 pixels. Now it is approx. 690 pixels with a strange bar on the left. The head switching noise at the bottom is about 704 pixels wide, as expected.

Thanks for this. So would you suggest .Mov or .Avi or does it not matter?

Also I had a look at the capture and tried a factory made VHS which seemed a little better. Have a look at this - Test2 - QT 8bit YUV - Xmen

However I then also tried it with component as opposed to HDMI and it seemed much better so I am guessing something is going on with the HDMI output. The only problem with this is the audio seems a little worse but I was going to edit afterwards anyway.

Test3 - QT 8bit YUV - Component

Test3 - QT 8bit YUV - Component - Xmen

[Sharc]

Thanks for this. So would you suggest .Mov or .Avi or does it not matter?

.mov or .avi is the container only. You take the one which your editor/NLE accepts. What makes a difference is the codec. BlackMagic has its own lossless YUV codecs as I understand, FOURCC is 2VUY. If smaller files size matters your DVC Pro 50 is a good choice IMO.
Maybe someone with BlackMagic experience will chime in.

[97browng]

For those using basic USB capture devices such as Hauppauge Live-2 or i-o data gv-usb2 on a Windows PC,
the typical advice is to use a fast capture codec such as the UT video codec
and capture at SD resolution (as you have done) using 8-bit, 422 chroma sub-sampling. The capture codec
provides fast lossless compression which works well

If you have a fast computer and plenty of disk space you could probably use any the SD formats
although you should bear in mind the codec used and it's suitability for what ever editor you later use
on the footage.

This guy uses the AVI 8-bit YUV, he seems to know what he's doing, but he doesn't even mention the codec.
BUt as you've seen, it uses uncompressed video so the files will be massive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzKHwgjOBzI @ timestamp 7:31

Possible useful info in this thread/forum:
https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=78838

Interestingly enough, some of the articles on the interweb recommend Apple Prores 422
but I dont see it as an option in your setup

I think the DVCpro is good enough, whether it's fast enough to capture without the potential
for dropping frames, I don't really know.

Thanks for this I watched the video and his setup was very similar to mine so I think it should be OK, I also learned a few bits (such as renaming).

I have looked at the guide and most is set up as I have, which is good. I noted he suggests using component as opposed to HDMI so I will go for that as it definitely seems to be giving a better picture anyway.

One thing he suggests is using 576p instead of 576i as it will give better capture results. However lot's of other places say to stick with interlaced and you can deinterlace at a later date.

@59Sharc filesize doesn't really matter (I have several TB of storage space), so for the initial capture and I am happy to go for uncompressed. Just in case anyone is wondering about disk speed I will be capturing on a 2TB m2 drive and then transferring to my HDD storage (loads of TB spare) so speed won't be an issue during capture.

Hopefully I am nearly there and can start capturing some of the VHS'. Then comes the fun part of tinkering with the quality

[Sharc]

One thing he suggests is using 576p instead of 576i as it will give better capture results.

No way, bad advice IMO, because
- VHS is natively interlaced video which should be captured as interlaced
- Real time deinterlacers usually deliver poorer quality compared to a good deinterlacer in post processing
- Real time deinterlacing consumes extra CPU power with the risk of getting (more) dropped frames.
And yes, I would prefer Component, rather than HDMI. However, from the VCR to the BM one may usually have to go via the S-Video connection as most VCRs do not support Component for tape playback. Your Daewoo Combo seems to be an exception here .....

Lastly (or first of all), a good capture depends very much on the tape player. I hope/assume that your Daewoo VCR (with line TBC ?) is fine as the BM depends on a stable signal, especially for SD VHS captures .....

[97browng]

One thing he suggests is using 576p instead of 576i as it will give better capture results.

No way, bad advice IMO, because
- VHS is natively interlaced video which should be captured as interlaced
- Real time deinterlacers usually deliver poorer quality compared to a good deinterlacer in post processing
- Real time deinterlacing consumes extra CPU power with the risk of getting (more) dropped frames.
And yes, I would prefer Component, rather than HDMI. However, from the VCR to the BM one may usually have to go via the S-Video connection as most VCRs do not support Component for tape playback. Your Daewoo Combo seems to be an exception here .....

Lastly (or first of all), a good capture depends very much on the tape player. I hope/assume that your Daewoo VCR (with line TBC ?) is fine as the BM depends on a stable signal, especially for SD VHS captures .....

Thanks for that, that's what I had read so I will go with Component at 576i and Quicktime Uncompressed 10-Bit YUV.

So now I have my captures, what do people recommend I use for editing? I don't want to do anything major but below are my preferences:

Free to Use (Would pay if something is definitely worth having)
Deinterlace
Crop
Denoise
Adjust brightness
Convert to a different container without much loss (.MKV of MP4)
Edit audio to remove noise (Although I know this can be done in Audacity separately it would be nice to do in one App)

I have read about the following but really want simple instructions I can follow for one of them:
Handbrake
Hybrid
Davinci resolve
VirtualDub

[Sharc]

Maybe add Avidemux to your editors list. It should be a reasonable compromise meeting your requirements, and not too difficult to learn how to use it.

Edit:
If you want a nearly perfect deinterlacer use Avisynth's QTGMC, or use a GUI (e.g. Hybrid) which supports it properly, but be prepared for a somewhat steep learning curve -- no "simple instructions". Similar for denoisers -> learn Avisynth (or learn to use Hybrid).

You decide what is worth your efforts and what is right for you.

[Barrythecrab]

Avidemux reduces every file to 4:2:0 when it processes (even if it exports 4:2:2) so keep that in mind.

[Sharc]

Avidemux reduces every file to 4:2:0 when it processes (even if it exports 4:2:2) so keep that in mind.

Thanks for the hint, I wasn't aware. Actually I hardly ever use Avidemux for my video processing. I mentioned it for its ease of use only.
Anyway, if Avidemux does the down-/upsampling for interlaced footage correctly it shouldn't be much of an issue for VHS sources.

[Barrythecrab]

It’s a great program to have in your arsenal but 4:2:2 all the way would be better, I don’t understand why it’s that way but it is.
The most recent nightly is May 2025 so it’s still being developed.