I have EP SVHS: Does Capture, Decode, etc... work same as VHS?

[MrCreosote]

Majority of discussion Comparing how well different products work with visual comparisons are VHS. Should I expect the same for SVHS tapes?


If I pick the best method based on this VHS information, will it be the best method for my EP SVHS tapes?

[The 14th Doctor]

From my understanding they should, S-VHS is simply VHS but with better horizontal resolution (400 lines vs the regular 240). Other aspects such as chroma resolution and audio are unchanged.

Still the same formulation, I think anyway.

Somebody who is way more knowledgable can correct me.

[MrCreosote]

From my understanding they should, S-VHS is simply VHS but with better horizontal resolution (400 lines vs the regular 240). Other aspects such as chroma resolution and audio are unchanged.

Still the same formulation, I think anyway.

Somebody who is way more knowledgable can correct me.

If I had to bet, I'd bet what you're saying - mostly because IF there was a difference, people would be talking about it EXCEPT of all my friends (I'm 72) they don't even know what SVHS is and DVHS is a joke as far as general knowledge.

But to make things even more difficult in my case, I record in EP which one comment was there are different drum heads for EP and that EP poses problems itself, evidently for VHS and so I'm wondering SVHS too?

Audio is Hi-Fi just like VHS.
As far as chroma, not sure: Super all use s-video which separates Chroma and Luminance, however there are not separate RF's for those two (I was looking into this and other higher end pro gears has 2 RF's but not S-VHS.

My concern is that various methods are compared, but these are mostly VHS which is very low res.
So the question is with the higher native resolution, do the methods compare the same? - some may fall short when dealing with higher native resolutions.

[The 14th Doctor]

From what I've heard EP mode uses a different set of heads than SP. EP mode has lower quality and stability as the the track heads are not spaced nicely (SP Mode), but smushed together

Maybe S-VHS EP mode is close to VHS SP mode in terms of quality, not sure. There really are a lot of factors at play here.

When it comes to chroma I'm talking the resolution, the overall quality. VHS color (chroma) resolution is extremely low at only 30 lines from what I've read. S-VHS does not improve this. It only improves the resolution of the luma (black and white)

That from my understanding is the major limiting factor to S-VHS not being an amazing jump in quality in this day and age, it is better than VHS but only by a certain amount.

[MrCreosote]

From what I've heard EP mode uses a different set of heads than SP. EP mode has lower quality and stability as the the track heads are not spaced nicely (SP Mode), but smushed together

Maybe S-VHS EP mode is close to VHS SP mode in terms of quality, not sure. There really are a lot of factors at play here.

When it comes to chroma I'm talking the resolution, the overall quality. VHS color (chroma) resolution is extremely low at only 30 lines from what I've read. S-VHS does not improve this. It only improves the resolution of the luma (black and white)

That from my understanding is the major limiting factor to S-VHS not being an amazing jump in quality in this day and age, it is better than VHS but only by a certain amount.

Your comment about the EP heads might explain some mentions of stability w/EP. However my Mitsu U82 had piezo crystal moving heads and maybe it might be a great deck for EP stability. However no one knows anything about the U82 - it retailed for $2000 which I bot new at $999 from a NYC camera shop.

S-VHS was a dramatic jump in quality. I started with Beta which was superior to VHS so I never gave VHS a second thought. But Super totally smoked Beta. It was so good that EP was good enough. (Consider nothing could record NTSC (including SP SVHS) until D-VHS came along and I had that too. Still have my Jvc 40K.)

[aedipuss]

ep/slp recording sucked on all vhs systems. the tape moved at 1/3 the speed of normal. not good. the heads were the same. s-vhs at normal speed was good

[aramkolt]

Capture considerations should be the same overall, you'll get the best results from a real SVHS VCR and S-Video cable. There are some VHS machines that have SQPB which is kind of quasi S-VHS that is playback only. Haven't really tested one of those SQPB machines, but I'd stick to a real SVHS machine if you can.

[aramkolt]

From what I've heard EP mode uses a different set of heads than SP. EP mode has lower quality and stability as the the track heads are not spaced nicely (SP Mode), but smushed together

Maybe S-VHS EP mode is close to VHS SP mode in terms of quality, not sure. There really are a lot of factors at play here.

When it comes to chroma I'm talking the resolution, the overall quality. VHS color (chroma) resolution is extremely low at only 30 lines from what I've read. S-VHS does not improve this. It only improves the resolution of the luma (black and white)

That from my understanding is the major limiting factor to S-VHS not being an amazing jump in quality in this day and age, it is better than VHS but only by a certain amount.

Your comment about the EP heads might explain some mentions of stability w/EP. However my Mitsu U82 had piezo crystal moving heads and maybe it might be a great deck for EP stability. However no one knows anything about the U82 - it retailed for $2000 which I bot new at $999 from a NYC camera shop.

S-VHS was a dramatic jump in quality. I started with Beta which was superior to VHS so I never gave VHS a second thought. But Super totally smoked Beta. It was so good that EP was good enough. (Consider nothing could record NTSC (including SP SVHS) until D-VHS came along and I had that too. Still have my Jvc 40K.)

My understanding is that Beta Is SuperHighBand had better specs than SVHS at 420 lines, though the main machine that could make those recordings (The SL-HF1000) didn't have S-Video output. The top of the line for beta was the ED Betas which had 500 lines of luma resolution which significantly outperformed S-VHS and did have S-Video outputs. Main downside of the higher performing betas is still the 1 hour record time per tape though.

[MrCreosote]

I think I've decided on my workflow: SVHS to Toshiba RD-XS32 or RD-KX50 HDD, then IsoBuster rip the HDD. Appears Toshi has TBC.

[lollo]

If I pick the best method based on this VHS information, will it be the best method for my EP SVHS tapes?

Yes, the same applies: high end S-VHS VCR with TBC to a recommended capture card. Capture Y/C, interlaced 4:2:2 lossless at 720x480 (576). Add an external TBC if needed.

S-VHS only increases the bandwidth of the luma, providing more discernable "points" inside each of the 480 (576) lines; all rest is the same as VHS.

You may have additional benefit because the intrinsic quality of the S-VHS VCR at the time of the recording compared to a basic VHS VCR, and the better quality S-VHS tapes used.

Degradation because EP is always there. Some VCRs are better than others in dealing with EP signals (the workflow does not change, only the choice of the VCR), difficult to give a suggestion.

[MrCreosote]

If I pick the best method based on this VHS information, will it be the best method for my EP SVHS tapes?

Yes, the same applies: high end S-VHS VCR with TBC to a recommended capture card. Capture Y/C, interlaced 4:2:2 lossless at 720x480 (576). Add an external TBC if needed.

S-VHS only increases the bandwidth of the luma, providing more discernable "points" inside each of the 480 (576) lines; all rest is the same as VHS.

You may have additional benefit because the intrinsic quality of the S-VHS VCR at the time of the recording compared to a basic VHS VCR, and the better quality S-VHS tapes used.

Degradation because EP is always there. Some VCRs are better than others in dealing with EP signals (the workflow does not change, only the choice of the VCR), difficult to give a suggestion.

The tapes were recorded on my Mitsu HS-U82 which is a $2k deck w/piezo moving heads. I have to repair it. Is there a chance this deck will produce the best playback results?

[lollo]

In general, if it is a high-end machine the best player is the one that recorded

[aramkolt]

I think I've decided on my workflow: SVHS to Toshiba RD-XS32 or RD-KX50 HDD, then IsoBuster rip the HDD. Appears Toshi has TBC.

RD-XS series is a good option if you need smaller filesizes and don't need a lossless capture. Many players can do live deinterlacing on MPEG2 files, so as long as you aren't planning to edit either, it can make for a decent distribution format if being primarily viewed on a computer or streaming player that does well with MPEG2 files. There are some documented issues with black/white levels on the XS32 that the 34 and 35 supposedly addressed. The results should be better than most other standalone capture options and is one of the few that preserves interlacing and doesn't require ripping DVDs, but it won't be lossless as mentioned.

Personally, I converted mine to to SSD SATA and then used an extension cable to make the drive external for easy disconnect/transfer, see attached. Drive is held in place with adhesive velcro.

[MrCreosote]

In general, if it is a high-end machine the best player is the one that recorded

That's what I thought too. Repairing a U82 could be a bear - massively complex. LOL, when I bot it new, I bot a NEW replacement drum. $148 Still have it. Amazing to scrutinize. NOTE: I should have bot a replacement slip ring assembly.

[MrCreosote]

I think I've decided on my workflow: SVHS to Toshiba RD-XS32 or RD-KX50 HDD, then IsoBuster rip the HDD. Appears Toshi has TBC.

RD-XS series is a good option if you need smaller filesizes and don't need a lossless capture. Many players can do live deinterlacing on MPEG2 files, so as long as you aren't planning to edit either, it can make for a decent distribution format if being primarily viewed on a computer or streaming player that does well with MPEG2 files. There are some documented issues with black/white levels on the XS32 that the 34 and 35 supposedly addressed. The results should be better than most other standalone capture options and is one of the few that preserves interlacing and doesn't require ripping DVDs, but it won't be lossless as mentioned.

Personally, I converted mine to to SSD SATA and then used an extension cable to make the drive external for easy disconnect/transfer, see attached. Drive is held in place with adhesive velcro.


[Attachment 88922 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 88920 - Click to enlarge]

Yes, I just noticed the small 4gb file sizes I believe. I have 6 hr tapes that are shorts/scenes from TV that are amazing/shocking/entertaining. I have 16 such tapes. They should be on Archive.

Personally would like a way to make each record session a chapter or index or something that would allow access to a particular recording. 4gb file might be a reasonable way to break down 6 hours of this stuff, probably 100's of records - it's not totally unlike a montage - some bits are minutes long.

On the Xs32, I took the Steelers Super Bowl win and edited it down to just scores, kickoffs, punts, 1st downs and 3rd downs that did not convert. The number of chapters nearly brought the XS32 down to it's knees. There were issues getting the DVD to function properly in other DVD players. But I did succeed. The whole game took something like 30 minutes to watch.