Is it worth it recapturing videos?

[Riker0007]

Or slightly simpler:

LWLibavVideoSource("iodata.avi")
SelectOdd()
QTGMC() # optional deinterlace

Same glitches (caused by a bad cap).

What's a bad cap?

[jagabo]

There are drops/duplicates in your capture process.

By the way, you can alternatively use:

LWLibavVideoSource("iodata.avi")
SelectEven()
AssumeTFF()
QTGMC() # optional deinterlace

The main problem is that you captured at 60 fps rather than 30 fps. So every field is duplicated and the field order is different for the even vs. odd frames. And in addition to that you have drop and duplicate frames. Capturing correctly at 30 fps will probably fix both those issues.

[Riker0007]

There are drops/duplicates in your capture process.

By the way, you can alternatively use:

LWLibavVideoSource("iodata.avi")
SelectEven()
AssumeTFF()
QTGMC() # optional deinterlace

The main problem is that you captured at 60 fps rather than 30 fps. So every field is duplicated and the field order is different for the even vs. odd frames. And in addition to that you have drop and duplicate frames. Capturing correctly at 30 fps will probably fix both those issues.

Got it. The dvdo will only allow me to capture at 59.9 frames via HDMI. The iodata I will redo . Thanks

[Alwyn]

I'm not sure which is better the iodata or a pinnacle?

Quality-wise, I reckon they're the same. Ease of use? Check this thread out for ease of use (NOT) of the 710-USB:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/15246-pinnacle-card-works.html

Do you think the gv-usb2 is bad?

Hard to say. That GV-USB2 clip is very short. And I've just noticed you're capturing in YUY2, which could be causing issues; you should be capturing to a lossless codec such as Lagarith, UT video or HUFYUV (all free). Have a look at my guide for capturing with AmaRecTV here. I mention those lossless codecs there.

If I'm reading your previous posts correctly, you're playing your tape with the VCR TBC off because it jitters. Generally, one needs a stabiliser of some kind, whether it be the VCR TBC, an ES-15 type DVD recorder or a full-blown, costly TBC. In your case, if you've got your VCR TBC off, you'll need one of the others. I have notes on stabilisers here, and the ES-15 specifically here.

First, try some other tapes with the GV. You can post samples here up to 500mb, so, with a lossless codec, a clip of 15 seconds would be better for analysis.

As for that DVDO, as @Sharc has pointed out, there's all sorts of issues there so I would steer clear of it for the time being.

[lordsmurf]

I'm not sure which is better the iodata or a pinnacle?

Quality-wise, I reckon they're the same.

No.

Ease of use? Check this thread out for ease of use (NOT) of the 710-USB:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/15246-pinnacle-card-works.html

I guess you didn't read that thread? That person has multiple variables at play, and troubleshooting thus far did not determine that the situation actually had anything to do with the Pinnacle card. Wiring or computer-side is more likely.

As for that DVDO, as @Sharc has pointed out, there's all sorts of issues there so I would steer clear of it for the time being.

At least we can all still agree on total garbage, which is what HDMI adapters are.

[Alwyn]

No.

Prove it.

[Sharc]

Hard to say. That GV-USB2 clip is very short. And I've just noticed you're capturing in YUV, which could be causing issues; you should be capturing to a lossless codec such as Lagarith, UT video or HUFYUV (all free).

He should capture into YUV. His iodata.avi (GV-USB2 clip) is actually captured correctly into YUV 4:2:2 lossless (YUY2). Nothing to change in this respect. Just the framerate is wrong there.

[Sharc]

No.

Prove it.

The problem of the OP is not Pinnacle vs GV-USB2. It is usually more beneficial to teach (poor) drivers how to drive their car correctly rather than recommending them to change the car

[Alwyn]

He should capture into YUV. His iodata.avi (GV-USB2 clip) is actually captured correctly into YUV 4:2:2 lossless (YUY2). Nothing to change in this respect.

Oops, my bad, I meant not capturing to uncompressed/YUY2. I wouldn't have thought capturing uncompressed would be a good idea, bitrate and space-wise?

I've edited my previous post.

[Alwyn]

At least we can all still agree on total garbage, which is what HDMI adapters are.

Actually, I don't. HDMI from Panasonic EZ-48 to Startech USB3HDCAP via splitter works just fine. I suspect that that DVDO is the problem.

[lollo]

At least we can all still agree on total garbage, which is what HDMI adapters are.

Actually, I don't. HDMI from Panasonic EZ-48 to Startech USB3HDCAP via splitter works just fine. I suspect that that DVDO is the problem.

Yes, the HDMI approach as experimented and documented by the German guys in their forum is a good alternative to the "standard" workflow https://gleitz-info.translate.goog/forum/index.php?thread/47572-tutorial-hochwertiges-..._x_tr_pto=wapp
In particolar when the tapes may benefit of the stronger intra-frame time base correction provided by specific DVD-Recorder devices.

Knowledgeable users Bogilein, oln and Skiller (among others) have demonstrated this in videohelp forums as well.

[Sharc]

He should capture into YUV. His iodata.avi (GV-USB2 clip) is actually captured correctly into YUV 4:2:2 lossless (YUY2). Nothing to change in this respect.

Oops, my bad, I meant not capturing to uncompressed/YUY2. I wouldn't have thought capturing uncompressed would be a good idea, bitrate and space-wise?

I've edited my previous post.

For clarification: uncompressed and lossless are not the same. YUV (YUY2) is already a form of compression based on the concept of luma+chroma. Capturing (digitizing) VHS as YUV 4:2:2 using a lossless codec like Huffyuv etc. is efficient as it prevents any undesired additional losses (for VHS). One could also capture less efficiently into YUV 4:4:4 or RGB for example, but for VHS it would be a waste of bandwidth/bitrate/filesize at no real benefit.

[lollo]

One could also capture less efficiently into YUV 4:4:4 or RGB for example, but for VHS it would be a waste of bandwidth/bitrate/filesize at no real benefit.

For RGB not only a bandwidth/bitrate/filesize loss, but also a useless signal manipulation because signal on tape is Y/C (more or less), as well as the architecture of the S-Video connectors out of the recommended VCRs (more or less).

[Alwyn]

@Sharc, so, for the benefit of the OP, confirm they should be capturing into one of the codecs mentioned, not "Uncompressed" in VDub or "YUY2" (or any of the "Y"s) in AmaRecTV.

[Riker0007]

Here is the JVC going into the s-video of the black magic. Black magic said 8bit avi

https://files.videohelp.com/u/139455/JVC%20into%20black%20magic%20s-vid.avi

[Sharc]

Here is the JVC going into the s-video of the black magic. Black magic said 8bit avi

https://files.videohelp.com/u/139455/JVC%20into%20black%20magic%20s-vid.avi

This looks correct from a capture point of view: YUV 4:2:2 interlaced BFF, 29.97fps. (Blackmagic seems to capture NTSC with 486 lines).
There are however some glitches at the bottom of some of the frames (too much for head switching garbage I think). Maybe this is baked into the tape and not related to the capturing process. Not sure. Is this from an edited/dubbed tape?

(Sidenote: The luma histogram has regular gaps. Probably due to the luma expansion by the capture SW to fill the 16....235 range.)

[Riker0007]

Here is the JVC going into the s-video of the black magic. Black magic said 8bit avi

https://files.videohelp.com/u/139455/JVC%20into%20black%20magic%20s-vid.avi

This looks correct from a capture point of view: YUV 4:2:2 interlaced BFF, 29.97fps. (Blackmagic seems to capture NTSC with 486 lines).
There are however some glitches at the bottom of some of the frames (too much for head switching garbage I think). Maybe this is baked into the tape and not related to the capturing process. Not sure. Is this from an edited/dubbed tape?

(Sidenote: The luma histogram has regular gaps. Probably due to the luma expansion by the capture SW to fill the 16....235 range.)

This was from my wedding tape. Some company made this from video they gathered that day. I will capture some different tapes. I’m wondering which device to use. The black magic or iodata. Would it be worth a shot to get an es15 and see if that clears up stuff with the jvc tbc off or is that just a waste? If the settings are ok and it’s as good as it gets, until after to try to clean up with software, do I just capture all my tapes and then process? I am trying to figure out this avisynth thing and first me, it’s tuff. Is there one with all the needed presets set to go that I can just download and run? I’ve tried hybrid but I can’t seem to find certain things and how to run really.
With iodata what’s the best codec to use? Not sure if the magicyuv is worth the cost?
Thanks for the help

[Sharc]

This was from my wedding tape. Some company made this from video they gathered that day.

So it has been edited and copied. That explains most of the quality issues

I will capture some different tapes. I’m wondering which device to use. The black magic or iodata

Try both and compare.

Would it be worth a shot to get an es15 and see if that clears up stuff with the jvc tbc off

I have my doubts

If the settings are ok and it’s as good as it gets, until after to try to clean up with software, do I just capture all my tapes and then process? I am trying to figure out this avisynth thing and first me, it’s tuff. Is there one with all the needed presets set to go that I can just download and run? I’ve tried hybrid but I can’t seem to find certain things and how to run really.

Attached a script for deinterlacing your clip, then encoded for 4:3 aspect ratio. There is a learning curve though for Avisynth. You may get away with a simpler solution.

With iodata what’s the best codec to use?

Basically any of those lossless codecs mentioned before is as good as the other for lossless capturing.

Script (video only):

AVISource("JVC into black magic s-vid.avi")
ConvertToYV16(interlaced=true)
AssumeBFF()
QTGMC()  #or use a simpler deinterlacer
Crop(8, 2, -8, -4)  #crop to 704x480
TemporalDegrain2() #denoise, or use a simpler denoiser, or skip it
ConvertToYV12() #for subsequent x264 4:2:0 encoding

now encode it using x264

[Riker0007]

So the dvdo went back to the black hole in my garage. I captured a few tapes via iodata and UT Video,ULY2 as the codec. No dropped frames that I can see, but maybe a few duplicates that seemed to have happened when the tape go crappy. That being said, the don't seem to open in davinci. I'm tried using shutter encoder, Avidemux, and virtdub2 and change it to .mov or .mkv and all they do is leave me with an audio file? How can I get them in there to edit? Did I pick the wrong codec? Where do I go from here? They play fine with vlc player after capturing.
Thanks again.

[Alwyn]

the don't seem to open in davinci

Oops, Davinci (Resolve, I assume) won't open the normally-used lossless AVI codecs, according to this document.

A Davinci user will hopefully point you in the right direction. You might have to transcode to a suitable codec such as ProRes.

[rgr]

So the dvdo went back to the black hole in my garage. I captured a few tapes via iodata and UT Video,ULY2 as the codec. No dropped frames that I can see, but maybe a few duplicates that seemed to have happened when the tape go crappy. That being said, the don't seem to open in davinci. I'm tried using shutter encoder, Avidemux, and virtdub2 and change it to .mov or .mkv and all they do is leave me with an audio file? How can I get them in there to edit? Did I pick the wrong codec? Where do I go from here? They play fine with vlc player after capturing.
Thanks again.

Vegas will open files encoded with UTCodec. For DaVinci, you can transcode to H265 lossless using Vdub. Or ProRes (ffmpeg -i source.avi -c:v ks_prores -profile:v 4444xq out.mov).

Please note that these will be BT601 files, not BT709.

[Sharc]

@Riker0007: You can convert your captured .avi to ProRes .mov using ffmpeg, like

ffmpeg.exe -i "your.avi" -c:a copy -c:v prores_ks -profile:v 2 -bits_per_mb 8000 -pix_fmt yuv422p10le -vf scale=interl=1,setfield=bff "proRes422.mov"

If you don't insist on DaVinci you can try the free Shotcut which opens your .avi without problems.

Added:
Here your source of post#45 converted to ProRes, using the ffmpeg commandline. It should open in DaVinci.

[Riker0007]

So here is a capture with the iodata and hopefully the right settings and it worked as should.

https://files.videohelp.com/u/139455/capture%20raw%20iodata%20capture.avi

Here is the same video but then converted to the prores, I hope?

https://files.videohelp.com/u/139455/Capture%20changed%20with%20script%20to%20prores.mov

How bad is it or what did I do wrong? Do I need to change/do anything different etc?
Thanks

[Alwyn]

Your capture's a bit bright. Here's a basic histogram showing the overbright at the top (in the brown, "no-go" area). The sky is the issue, which can be fixed before capture by lowering the Contrast.

[Attachment 88361 - Click to enlarge]
Open up your Proc Amp controls and play the tape, then lower the Contrast so you can see the blue sky. Keep the Brightness down so the blacks are still pretty dark ie not greyish or washed out. You basically want dark but not black and bright but not white.

I don't know if FFMpeg has it, but VDub2 has a great filter "Camcorder Color Denoise" which gets rid of a lot of the colour splodges. They aren't as obvious in your MOV, but are still there. Here's your capture with the CCD filter applied to the right side:

[Attachment 88362 - Click to enlarge]
VDub2 will output ProRes.

If you want to do some more reading on levels, I have written some notes:

Using VDub's Histogram to set the levels

and

Using Graphstudio to set the levels in realtime

[Sharc]

So here is a capture with the iodata and hopefully the right settings and it worked as should.

https://files.videohelp.com/u/139455/capture%20raw%20iodata%20capture.avi

Here is the same video but then converted to the prores, I hope?

https://files.videohelp.com/u/139455/Capture%20changed%20with%20script%20to%20prores.mov

How bad is it or what did I do wrong? Do I need to change/do anything different etc?
Thanks

Your capture is probably ~as good as it can get in view of your mediocre pre-edited and dubbed VHS source.
The converted 10bit ProRes opens perfectly in DaVinci, and you can continue from there.
Just in case you prefer not to employ too many tools: DaVinci's color grading can handle the "superbrights" well (as far as they are not clipped). Use DaVinci's "Scopes" panel for inspection. So no absolute need to tamper with the proc-amp settings of your capture device. (proc-amp adjustments would make your histogram "spiky", means introducing a slight loss which is however practically meaningless for your VHS source..... pros and cons).

[Alwyn]

Davinci recover that beautiful blue sky? I'd like to see that.

[lollo]

In accordance to my recommendation here https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/418254-Info-Hauppauge-USB-Live-2-capturable-range#post2780716 the capture is fine, because is in the capturable range of the card (1-254), whith no crush of the blacks nor clips of the white (no accumulation, except maybe few pixels at Y=1 in the fence).

If required to shrink to 16-235 range, a simple AviSynth command

levels(1,1.0,254,16,235,coring=false,dither=true)

is enough





In addition (or in alternative) any color correction can be done with whatever tool according to own personal taste

[Sharc]

Davinci recover that beautiful blue sky? I'd like to see that.

Of course you can "recover" what is not clipped. You tell how blue your beautiful blue sky should be, or how it looked to the eye when the video was shot.

@Riker0007: I gave Alwyn some explanations about the (8bit) luma levels here:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/418254-Info-Hauppauge-USB-Live-2-capturable-range#post2780708

@Alwyn. Your PC/Vdub may have used used Avisynth's standard expanding Rec601 matrix hence everything in the brown area got lost.
The TV - if setup correctly - would show that Y<16 and Y>235. For the PC you would have to use Avisynth's "PC Matrix" to show the full scale, or convert to limited range as per lollo's script, or use any editor/NLE to shrink it to be within the "safe" 16....235 luma.

[Alwyn]

It's captured too bright. That's all I'll say. You can argue the toss all you like. Slightly lowered contrast would have got a better result, better than when this one is "corrected".

[lollo]

Slightly lowered contrast would have got a better result, better than when this one is "corrected".

False. The input signal is what it is, whatever manipulation you can do before or after capturing. Moreover, acting on the poor procamp of the capture cards introduces alterations.

What is important is that nothing is crushed and/or clipped while capturing.

You can run your own experiment: capture in the full range and correct in post to your taste, or capture in a limited range nice to your taste. Then compare. You'll se no (significant) difference, except ugly histograms in the second.