CCE 4pass vs TMPGEnc 2pass...done

[WeedVender]

Uh CCE can be quite the bitch (excuse me but it has driven me to the point of insanity) sometimes. But I still love it compared to TMPGEnc. CCE is a life saver for me.

Figure this out...

I run a P3 at 1 Ghz with 128 ram and Full Speed L2 cache on WinME

CCE does a 10 pass in 2 hours, including the Vaf. File, no audio encoding a full length movie.

TMPGEnc, equiped with my CVD templates has on a 2 pass with the noise filter on the same movie takes 60 hours to encode on the same system.

I just dont know what im going use TMPGenc for now.

[Anonymoususer]

Well after all the debates I'm deciding to switch to CCE, but so far Im not getting impressed, first I was having codec problems, now when that was fixed, Im having troubles with CCE creating the damn VAF files or basically starting up, it's very frustrating. I was wondering if someone could help me out.

Please read the post on TMPGEnc 2 Pass Confusion. Yes I know the topic differs from my subject but after debate I have decided to try out CCE but so far am having no luck.

The thread is located here if you would like to put your opinion in or some suggestions.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=139368

Any help would be very greatly appreciated.

[vhelp]

Hi divXerous,

I'm the opposite. I prefer TMPGEnc. I'm sure the quality is very good,
but when you get right down to it, and besides its multi-pass encoding
advantange over TMPG's, and the speed advantage.. who cares, he he..

Anyways, I've had plenty of time to mess w/ CCE. I've had many, many
turbulance w/ getting it to open my AVI files (mostly captured avi's)
I found out, to my surprise, that in most cases, I had to DELETE the VAF
file every time I started a new CCE encode, else it would start encoding,
then bail out after the first pass or VAF, or it would bail out during the VAF
or first pass or whatever. It was a pain in the zzz. But, once I realized
this, I was able to encode w/ CCE from that point on.

As long as you didn't make any changes to the AVI (frameserve file) prior
to CCE, all would be fine for a second encode project or test w/ CCE.
But, if you started an encode project, then finished it, then did some
changes to the AVI or AVS script or frameserver or whatever, when you
would run a 2nd encoding project, CCE (for me anyways) would give me
such grief.. sometimes could encode complete VAF and then throw a tantrim
that index code or something like that didn't match, and would bail out, or
a combination of issues, and would stop w/out completing encoding.

I learned that it's just better to DELETE the VAF file if you are just doing
one encoding project per AVI encode. In other words.. know what your
needs are so that you don't have to do a 2nd or 3rd or more encoding on
the SAME avi or frameserved file.

The above is my experience w/ CCE, though I gave it up long ago for
my continued happyness w/ TMPG. Though TMPG may be pretty slow,
it's not so bad. And, if you learn to utilize CQ (thanks to kwag) you
shouldn't have ANY problems w/ encoding SPEED So, learn how to utilize
CQ in your encodes, then, judge you quality BASED on your skills thus far

Oh, back to VAF.. it's ben my experience to DELETE it in most of my
encoding projects (those many tests that I ran back then)
But, it's not a problem, making the switch to CCE. It's just you opinion.
..as you were.

-vhelp

[petec]

I have recently switched from TMPGne to CCE. While I still am happy with TMPGne and it's never given me any problems I like the speed of CCE. I am using a P4-1.8Ghz / 512M memory. I have only recently switched to making DVDs (from Satellite) and previously SVCDs and VCDs. I only use 2-pass VBR and picture looks as good / better than TMPgne. In order to utilize entire DVD I usually adjust ABR / Low / High so that I can get the most bang for the buck. (is that a US term and not a UK term??) I haven't played yet or compared a 4-pass to a 2-pass but am content with the DVD picture on a 60" 16:9 TV set. Don't think that 4-pass will improve much as I see artifacts all the time here on Satellite (more so on the non PPV channels - ? compression >). CCE is more buggy but I am hitting about 99% now with my encoding. BUT price of TMPGne is excellent vs. CCE. I have also heard good things about ProCoder (much more $ though)

[adam]

@ vhelp: Well of course you have to delete the vaf file each time you do a new project, its specific to that particular source. You can't feed it Braveheart and expect it to output the Matrix.

Regarding your other error...are you talking about the checksum checks? These are easily bypassed with a patch which you can find in the CCE FAQ on doom9.net's forums.

There are a couple of initial precautions you have to take when encoding with CCE. Once you get past those it is completely stable. I never have any problems and I use all kinds of different sources.

[vhelp]

petec,

about quality from satellite.. Are you geting the same treatment as I here
in NY w/ quality - any channel ??

I mean, I have DirecTV and I remember back 3 years ago, when quality was at
it's BEST !! Like DVD quality.. until they started to FILTERize all the
video contents. I call it either "chizel smoke" or "pixel sunflare" or
some variation or another. Nowadays, when I look at it, (and this is from
a 13" tv screen) I see this dull looking video quality, and you notice much
more in darker scenes. Its amazing.. peoples with their larger screens
MUST be experiencing it MUCH more worse than my 13" tv ??
And, how about those who have 30" plus wide screen or 60" plus wide screen
or flatscreen.. You guys, SURELY MOST see how bad satellite has become.
Again, 3 years ago, picture quality was crystle clear and clean, today,
it's "chizel smoke" or "pixel sunflare" or something other. And, those who
only just got Satellite wont know it or realize it, but those who have had
satellite for 3 or more years MUST be noticing this FILTERING crap !!
All I can say is it must be a lot worse for those w/ much larger screens.
I'm puzzled that no-one currently is complaining about it. I seem to be
the only one w/ this issue or have everyone GONE BIND ??

As for PPV on satellite (DirecTV) I have the opportunity to test view it's
quality, and from what I've seen, those PPV have ben affected as well. They
do look a little better, but I've seen regular TV commercials that looked
breath taking, cause they don't do so much FILTERING on them, its mostly
for TV show, TV movies, and the likes, but some commercals are run through
this FILTERING too. But, as I was saying.. PPV suffers this FILTERING as
well unfortunately. So, I hesitate to bother spending $10 more for movie
channels, when then taint (FILTER'ize) the content w/ poor quality anyways..
Makes me mad when they use tales talk.. "its crystle clear" bla, bla, bla..
Foony!!

These days, I hesitate to bother w/ capturing and encoding, but.. I can't
let THEM stop me.

Are anyone experiencing this FILTERING w/ satellite ?? ?? ??

-vhelp

[vhelp]

adam,

I wasn't trying to put down CCE at all. Actually, I overcame it, well.. with
the exception to your answer in your above post, but even after many
countless complaint in the past, I never received the answer (cause) as
you put it, back then. But, it doens't really matter now. I'm quite content
w/ TMPG.

In my many (and working) testings w/ CCE, I found quality of CCE vs. my
older methods encodings in TMPG to be only slightly better. But, that is
dependant on my eyes - you know that -- it's subjective. But, still, I could
sware that CCE did put out better quality handlage under certain scenes
during my encoding debugs. i.e., in the matrix.. be right back.. ..

-vhelp

[spiderman2k1]

I will have to say CCE is better less block's TMPG make's alot of block's not to bad in DVD encoding but SVCD has alot of bloack while SVCD with CCE has none. Do not get me wrong I still like TMPG. TMPG has other thing that are very good editting. I use a older version that that can open Dazzle file's TMPG is good for opening files over 4 gig's plus good for editting vcd I also use MPEG23VCR. I would say this CCE 2.50 less blocky then TMPG but TMPG has better color the CCE 2.50 CCE 2.64 has great color and no block's. Also if you start to burn DVD's you might want to look at www.DVD2DVD-R.de I my self used it good program but I like DVD2ONE better www.dvd2one.com

[vhelp]

adam,

.. as I was saying.. .. ..

in the movie The Matrix.. Chapter 18/38, you'll notice how the
Nebuchadnezzar hovercraft ship passes by. As you look
closely, you'll see blocks as it pans left and heads away from you.
TMPG couldn't not handle it (at least not in the bitrate I was using,
though bitrate low/max were the same for both encoders) I used 2 pass
in CCE to more closely match that of TMPG's. Anyways, to spare you all,
my test showed CCE the winner in that scene.. dispalyed it very well and
w/ no blocks. I don't remember the exact bitrates I used, but if I
start playing around w/ this scene, maybe my memroy will come back..

That was a tough scene to do back then. I should give that test another
try - just for the heck of it. It would be interesting to see how the
encodes would go w/ a DVD rip vs. my fantasic ADVC-100 he, he..
Anyways.. I'm starting to get interested it testing this out he, he..
Maybe tomorrow..

Only wish I kept those two samples (cce vs. tmpg) but I believe I've
deleted them..

In my testings w/ CCE, I found it to pretty much constantly over come
most difficult scenes like The Matrix's Ch 18/38 scene. But, those
tests were so long ago, I can't be sure 100% anymores. So..
I'm more than happy w/ my TMPG, and I'll be sticking with it for a long
time to come.

-vhelp

[vhelp]

adam,

if you have nothing else better to do, perhaps you might be interested
in trying out that scene.. The Matrix ch 18/38 for yourself w/
CCE vs. TMPG - - just a thought for curiosity sake

-vhelp

[You_Are_Alive]

>vhelp,

Hey, I totally agree. The compression is bad, very bad on my toshiba 32" TV from satellite. I am on C-band, don't use DirectTV. I see big macro blocks everywhere, especially in blacks that are static. I hate what digital has done to what we view. For all of us here in the US. What's gonna be the point then when everyone gets a HDTV tuner. They'll just cram more crap at the sacrifice of signal quality. I prefer to watch channels straight from analog antenna cause it looks way better than the digital stuff I'm getting now. I guess I just have to get used to it because most people don't complain about this and are not even listened to because we are such a small majority, scatterred, and un-organized. It seems we don't have a voice yet, but I hope it will change soon.

[Anonymoususer]

TMPGEnc is probably the greatest program Im using, compared to CCE it is is very flexible and easy to use WHICH I like, but I do also want to get good quality out of my AVI's, Constant Bitrate compared to 2 Pass is not as good, I recently swtiched to 2 Pass VBR and was very pleased with what came out, blockless picture AND it was an SVCD, someone mentioned that it doesn't do a good job on SVCD's....STILL I would really like to give CCE a try before I give up all hope of using it which I am close to....

[petec]

Regarding DTV Compression (Filtering). It is much more noticeable than when I first got it. Pixelation is very noticeable. PPV is better but not by much. I have seen similiar with newer DVDs (look at xXX). DTV has added more channels and I believe the bandwidth stayed the same.

[adam]

Divxerous, on the contrary SVCD is one of the formats that CCE excels at. That and high bitrate mpeg2 for DVD purposes are most definitely CCE's strongpoints.

I've read your problem in another thread and it sounds like its probably something extremely simple to fix. Read the CCE FAQ in the forums of www.doom9.net. If you haven't taken those basic precautions than you are going to run into problems with CCE.

Create a new directory with nothing in it. Set CCE to output to this dir. Just do a CBR encode at the avg that you want for your 2-pass encode. At least see if you can get through this step. Once the encode is done, go back into CCE and set it to 2-passes and set the rest of your settings and see if it will encode. I know you said you don't have a vaf file in your directory but I don't see how you could possibly get the errors that you have unless this was the case. Try doing a search on your hard drive for ".vaf" and delete any that pop up before encoding again.

Once you learn how to use CCE its actually extremely easy to use.