VideoReDo TVSuite & Professional - General Discussion Thread

[rthurlow]

Thanks Marayong. The only thing the Mac is doing is emitting Hulu or PBS output via HDMI - that goes into the EZRecorder. I have done different things over time, like I know I have not always used 1080i as these recordings used, and I can try recapture at 720p to see what's different, and before that see what a Mac reboot might do. I will also check what settings I can, especially pertaining to sound. The EZRecorder doesn't have a lot of settings.

Thanks for that link, interesting. But to clarify, running QSF on the raw original file results in the same mangled audio. I was outputting to MP4, and did not try Transport Stream.

[Marayong]

VRD should happily handle 1080 video .. that's what I record at and I have no problems. I also record as ts and not mp4. Ts is the raw and relatively unprocessed content, if you record as mp4 you are getting your recorder to do additional processing, which can introduce more issues since it's putting more of a demand on system resources - you are not just 'saving the video stream', you are formatting and then saving. VRD happily handles ts input.

I don't know what your hardware setup is, but if the video is going through a Mac, you could still have Mac-specific codecs. Looking at the EZRecorder, it looks like you are generating the video on the Mac, either by a steaming 'app' or a web browser, then connecting the EZRecorder as a sort of "second monitor" via hdmi and recording the video on the EZRecorder. Does this sound right? If so, hdmi only refers to the cable connection, the actual codecs and formatting of the video would be determined by whatever software on the mac is sending the video signal to the EZRecorder. Others have had issues editing and even playing videos on a windows pc that are sourced from a Mac.

Assuming you have a recent model, the EZRecorder is designed to capture 1080 video, indeed it'll also capture 4K. Is the video & audio in sync when it plays/streams on the mac? Even if you record in 4K, the worst that VRD will do is it may crash when you try to edit and/or save. It'll still load and play 4k files.

At this stage to me it looks like the issue is the source and an apple quirk. Can you stream the video on a windows machine and connect the EZRecorder to that?

[Bridgy]

I have no experience with all of this recording stuff, i use VRD with videos recorded on cameras and i mostly deal with 4k HEVC content.

Recording in the TS container would be easier as Marayong said, you can use VRD to then export the files to MP4 or MKV (which i recommend for playback compatibility) after you have done your edits etc.

[cp2]

rhurlow…
Mangled audio could well be a problem with the original recording but a couple of other things to try…

I have had some success with remuxing a file using mkvtoolnix.

VRD has the option to change the audio codec(s) of a stream. Open the full file and try converting the stream, AAC or AC3 are probably the best choices.
Handbrake can do similar but it isn’t as user friendly in this respect.

[Marayong]

rhurlow…
No response in a while, so unsure if the problem has been fixed or not. If not, could you advise whether playing the unedited recording reveals audio issues or not. There are too many possible causes, so need to determine whether it's VRD or the recording. If it has been fixed, could you post a quick note here about how it was resolved in case someone in the future has the same problem?

[Bridgy]

Hi again, i thought i might throw this bit of info up in here for those who might be interested.

I have been doing some screen recordings in the past week using my Pro version of Bandicam 2025 which i generally set up to record in AVC (h264) 60fps @ up to a maximum bitrate of 30.0Mbps, and i also use CBR and CFR modes for recording my stuff as well.

Obviously screen recording software will only record up to the maximum resolution of your screen, when i record i just drag a box over the area that i need to record and let Bandicam do it's job.

So after i had recorded a heap of files i decided to check the resolution and the video bitrate of the recorded files and some of them seem to have a rather high bitrate for the actual resolution, some also seem to be a lot lower than i think they should be, so it got me thinking, is Bandicam showing these erratic bitrates simply because it is recording the video on a laptop screen, unlike when you record video using a dedicated camera.

I decided to test these files out using the VRD Batch converter tool where i can load all the files together, i selected one of my own custom profiles that has been set up to export files to the Same as Source resolutions and Audio, but selecting HEVC as the codec, and using the Intelligent Recode option so that VRD will read the frames of each source file and apply the correct h265 video bitrate during the recoding of each file.

Obviously each file exported to HEVC with a different video bitrate because each of the recorded files have different bitrates when recorded on the screen.

After they exported to HEVC i crossed referenced these new files against the original files, and more than half of them had a higher bitrate in HEVC format than they had in AVC format, and others were about the same bitrate, none of them had a bitrate that was lower than the original recorded file.

So this would explain to me that the actual bitrate of each of these recorded files are not as accurate as they really should be.

As a side note, VRD Intelligent Recode usually exports a 4k/60p AVC camera file to 4k/60p HEVC format at around 30 to 35% lower bitrate than the AVC source file to get the same video quality, and a 4k/60p HEVC will recode to 4k/60p AVC at around 30 to 35% higher bitrate than the AVC file to get the same quality.

Strange behavior from Bandicam, so i sent them an email to ask them if this behavior is normal, and should the video bitrate be accurate when i record using the settings that i set in Bandicam.

[Marayong]

Just goes to prove that bitrates are magic and you need to sacrifice a sheep/goat/virgin/eldest child (delete as appropriate) in order to get it to behave as expected.

Do you have the latest version of bandicam? I ask because their website says the latest version has fixed issues when recording h264 video.

[Bridgy]

Haha, you asked the right question, i just installed it about 15 minutes ago, i don't recall getting the notification to update to the new version, i had Bandican open just before and noticed there was an update to version 2025, i was using the previous one which i only got a few months ago.

I will now do an identical recording of one of those previous files that i did a few days ago and see if i get a different bitrate.

Cheers.

Note that there is no parrot sitting on my shoulder either, i had to buy the license to stop the watermarked 10 minute capture limit.


[Attachment 86015 - Click to enlarge]

[Marayong]

The changelog on the website was pretty vague as to the issues, just that there were h264 issues fixed in the latest update. Whether they have all been fixed .. dunno.

Plenty of parrots here ... but they are all where they belong, out in the garden. Mostly lorikeets. Corellas too .. the destructive blighters.

[Bridgy]

Yeah not much info, anyway, i just recorded one of the original files again with the new Bandicam and i will note the bitrate, then do an Intelligent recode to HEVC in VRD and see what the HEVC bitrate will be, if the HEVC bitrate is not around 30 to 35% lower, or in fact the HEVC bitrate is similar to, or higher than the recorded AVC bitrate then i will know that it is still not correct.

One thing to note tho, Bandicam is using it's own encoder to do it's recording from the screen, and being that it is software doing the recording then one might think that the stated video bitrate of the files would not be as accurate as it would be if it was recorded using a camera.

That's how i see it.

I am recoding the 2 new recorded files now, will let you know the results.

[Marayong]

Does bandicam advertise just what encoder they use or just that they use their own mysterious and not elaborated in-house encoder?

[Bridgy]

Ok just finished the test, i did a recording of 2 different videos on my laptop screen, both recorded at 828h x 552w 4k/60p AVC with max bitrate of up to 30.0Mbps.

1st recording was 8.844Mbps, VRD Intelligent recode to HEVC = 8.047Mbps.

2nd recording was 10.600Mbps, VRD Intelligent recode to HEVC = 8.013Mbps.

2 files with the VRD exports shown in Explorer screenshot.


[Attachment 86020 - Click to enlarge]

MediaInfo of the recorded AVC file.


[Attachment 86021 - Click to enlarge]

MediaInfo of the VRD intelligent recode.


[Attachment 86022 - Click to enlarge]

Does bandicam advertise just what encoder they use or just that they use their own mysterious and not elaborated in-house encoder?

They would not have this info in their website nor documentation i don't think, however i will send them an email and ask exactly how it is done, and i will explain to them the results of my VRD Intelligent recoding with rather different bitrate results that i normally get from a camera recording.

Thing to note here, if i use a camera to record say 4k/60p HEVC and the video bitrate for that mode in the camera is 60.0Mbps, the video recorded is always at 60.0Mbps, even if it is a clear blue sunny day or a very overcast day, or even at night.

With screen recording the software encoder can only record at a bitrate that represents the actual quality of the image being displayed on the screen.

I can't record at anything higher than 1920x1080 because that is the resolution of my screen.

Bandicam is a very good recorder, i tried many free ones that were just crap and offered no real recording modes, so i spent just $33 to buy a yearly license as it really is worth it.

[Brain]

Greetings, I have been using VRTVS for many years now. Since there's a difference in how the TV Suite and the Pro version activates, can someone please explain the difference between the TV Suite and the Pro version? Not the activation of them but what the Pro version has that the TV Suite doesn't have or visa-versa. And understanding that may make it easier for those who don't have the "Pro" version to be satisfied with the non-Pro version and not worry about trying to get it or activate/re-activate it.

[Marayong]

Brain ... I know you said not about activation, but I have to add a note here that users with a valid licence can still re-active the non-pro version, but for the pro version there are no more activations, period. So no point hankering for the pro version.

As for the software differences. There wasn't all that much. The pro version has much more support for H265 videos. But go back a page or two and I posted the comparison chart for the pro & non-pro versions taken off the old VRD website. There was also a design philosophy difference in that new features were first introduced in the pro version and only appeared in the non-pro version in subsequent versions.

In terms of usage, the non pro version was aimed squarely at those recording off tv & needing to edit the resulting videos. The pro version did this but it was more aimed at people wanting to edit videos they'd recorded off cameras (so no adverts for example). But the reality is that users could use either version and most of the time would not notice any difference.

[Marayong]

Next ... Bandicoot .. sorry, Bandicam.

VRD generally behaves well with bitrates and unless there's something going seriously wrong or you have deliberately (or accidentality) changed a setting to change the output bitrate, the edited video generally has a bit rate similar to the original .. typically it is no more than 5% different. When you get large changes that then points the finger at the original video having some issue. The immediate possibility that comes to mind is that the Bandicam videos are reporting, say, 9mbps, but the videos are actually 8mbps .. VRD is picking up the real bitrate (not the reported one) and 'fixing' the reported bitrate to match the real figure. By 'reported', I mean what the video envelope reports to the OS, as distinct from the actual bitrate of the video stream inside the envelope. So the issue could be that Bandicam is incorrectly labelling the 'bitrate' on the video envelope. One possibility here is that the envelope bitrate is what the user has set for the recording, but hardware, operating system & software restrictions reduce the actual recorded bitrate and this reduced bitrate shows up in the video stream itself (which VRD picks up) but not the envelope (which windows file explorer picks up). Only guessing here .. but an educated guess.

[Brain]

Brain ... As for the software differences. There wasn't all that much. The pro version has much more support for H265 videos. But go back a page or two and I posted the comparison chart for the pro & non-pro versions taken off the old VRD website.

Thanks, brother, I skimmed over all the pages here but because I'm blind I missed your excellent post with chart. Based on the chart, the non-Pro version is just fine and anyway, I mostly use the thing to edit movies and cut out all the "F" bombs and unnecessary graphic scenes...

Billy: That sounds like 'Old Dog Trey' to me.

Doc: Pardon?

Billy: You know, Stephen Foster. 'Oh! Susanna', 'Camptown Races'. Stephen stinkin' Foster!

Doc: Uh, yes, well, this happens to be a nocturne.

Billy: A which?

Doc: You know, Frederic... Chopin.

Lol.

[Marayong]

For doing that the non-pro version is definitely better.

[Brain]

For doing that the non-pro version is definitely better.

The only thing I've noticed is that when trying to do it with H265 files, the prog won't finish and just freezes. I always have to use Handbrake or VideoProc to convert to H264 first.

[Marayong]

The non-pro version is somewhat hit & miss with h265 video as h265 support was being added into VRD non-pro when development ceased. Depending on how it is recorded, some h265 videos work, others don't. The pro version is more robust when it comes to h265 video.

But this comes down to the different market - tv recordings are generally h264 (anything more than that is wasted since they don't broadcast any higher & *very* few cable/satellite/streamings are higher), so non-pro is fine. But for those wanting to edit camera footage, the videos may be h265 or higher. For that you need VRD pro .. at least to reliably do so. I have tested some h265 videos on my non-pro install and some work, some crash. There's a lot of discussion about this in the first page or two of this forum.

[Brain]

Yeah Bro-migo, thanks for the info. My Samhung dumbTV is the same way. Some 265's play fine others will not. So, for the past few years I usually convert any 265's to 264 anyway and never have an issue.

I noticed in the list of Alternatives to VRTV Suite, there's "TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer 6 mentioned". It's been many years, but I used to use TMPGEnc (Tsunami Mpeg Encoder) and TMPGEnc DVD Author back in 2003 when they first came on the scene. A masterpiece of encoding software at the time. Are you familiar with TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer 6? The thing I love so much about VR is the accurate frame to frame edit and easily being able to delete a single word. I'm wondering if TMPGEnc allows the same.

[Marayong]

I'll let Bridgy comment on TMPGEnc since he did an indepth study of a lot of VRD alternatives, including that.

There's a lot on it here:
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/416487-Alternatives-for-VideoReDo-TV-Suite-with-Test-Results

I started using VRD over 20 years ago and since then I've not found anything that comes close to matching how well it meets my needs.

[Brain]

Thanks for the link. He says:

"Just as a heads up, should I ever lose the use of VRD Pro in the future, I have done enough testing with TMPGEnc Smart Renderer 6 now to conclude that it is the closest possible Alternative to VideoReDo TV Suite for me as far as doing my Frame Accurate/Smart Cutting and Smart Rendering, as well as doing other basic Editing such as adding Titles and Transitions etc., however, it does not let you export to other formats like VRD can do, so for my own Exports to other formats when required, I will just use Handbrake now that I have finally worked out how to use it properly, and being rather happy with the results."

Looks like LosslessCut and TMPGEnc are really good alternatives. But as long as VR continues to work, no need to spend money on anything else for what I use it for. Totally tragic this prog won't be continued.

[Marayong]

Subsequent to that Bridgy settled on the combination of LosslessCut & handbrake to replace VRD, if and when that is needed.

As for VRD, the developer died without a will, which means years in the courts to decide the estate, by which time the chances of being able to sell it to another developer would be pretty slim. The best we can hope for is someone eventually buys the rights to the code and incorporates the best features of VRD into their own product, but even there, as the years go by, the chances of that become slimmer and slimmer. Such is life.

[Bridgy]

Next ... Bandicoot .. sorry, Bandicam.

Hi m8, i just got up and found a reply to my email from Bandicam, man have i opened up a big can of worms for myself.

Went thru the link he gave me, then i clicked on a link regarding the use of external codecs and that is where it all got a whole lot more confusing.

Not exactly as straight forward as one might think, so i hate to think how the average lay person could understand all this garble.

I will spend some more time tonight on trying various options, but it seems right now that my files are being recorded in H264 and not using the x264 external encoder, which i can use if i record the videos using the AVI container setting.

Hello,

When recording with Bandicam, the encoder that is used is the one you select in the Bandicam format settings.
Please check the link below to compare the features of each encoder and find the one that suits your needs.

https://www.bandicam.com/best-codec-for-recording-software/

That person did not really answer my question directly, it pointed me to a rather confusing page (se above link) that i then had to click on another link in that one to find the answers, even then it was still rather confusing and long winded.

I won't go on any more about Bandicam in here because it is totally off topic, i will just try and sort it out myself, and maybe i will create a new Topic relating to Bandicam, or Screen Recorders in general, if there is not one already.

This is not mission critical as it is only recording stuff on my screen, which can vary in it's quality anyway, it's not like these recordings are important.

[simon744]

Hello, everyone, again! So, this might sound a little random, even if we're on the right forum, but I was wondering if users who have both VideoReDo and LosslessCut can make another comparison test between the two...because I just realized something quite interesting.

So, I was doing yet another rounds of random testing with these apps, and realized that the "Normal Cut" mode (which is activated when both the "Keyframe cut" and "Smart Cut" mode are unchecked) might actually be frame-accurate and lossless. I tried trimming a TV recording using VideoReDo, and as I was onto it, I copied all the timecodes, and ran them through LosslessCut on "Normal Cut" mode. I kid you not, the results were IDENTICAL! This was/is also true when just cutting out single parts from your video, like a musical performance, etc.

Can somebody also give this another shot, and share their findings?

[rthurlow]

rhurlow…
No response in a while, so unsure if the problem has been fixed or not. If not, could you advise whether playing the unedited recording reveals audio issues or not. There are too many possible causes, so need to determine whether it's VRD or the recording. If it has been fixed, could you post a quick note here about how it was resolved in case someone in the future has the same problem?

The original recordings all play just fine. If I didn't care to edit them, I'd be fine.

What still messes me up is that one time, a Nova recording was correctly trimmed to a working recording, after several attempts failed. The only variable in there are that I would have chosen different frames for the cut points.

No fix yet. I have not made the effort to re-capture the recordings I had problems with; that's on my list.

Rob T

[Bridgy]

Looks like LosslessCut and TMPGEnc are really good alternatives. But as long as VR continues to work, no need to spend money on anything else for what I use it for. Totally tragic this prog won't be continued.

If i was to buy TMPGEnc Smart Renerer 6 then no need for LosslessCut because TMPGEnc does do smart cutting and smart render (joining the cut bits back together without recoding)

I would use LosslessCut, then use Handbrake if i need to recode the source files to another format now that i have been shown how to use Handbrake properly.

I would just need to work out how to add frame based titles the same way, or similar to the way that VRD does them, as yet i have not found any tool that replicates this.

[Bridgy]

Hello, everyone, again! So, this might sound a little random, even if we're on the right forum, but I was wondering if users who have both VideoReDo and LosslessCut can make another comparison test between the two...because I just realized something quite interesting.

So, I was doing yet another rounds of random testing with these apps, and realized that the "Normal Cut" mode (which is activated when both the "Keyframe cut" and "Smart Cut" mode are unchecked) might actually be frame-accurate and lossless. I tried trimming a TV recording using VideoReDo, and as I was onto it, I copied all the timecodes, and ran them through LosslessCut on "Normal Cut" mode. I kid you not, the results were IDENTICAL! This was/is also true when just cutting out single parts from your video, like a musical performance, etc.

Can somebody also give this another shot, and share their findings?

I recently did a lot of testing with LosslessCut to see how it reacted when cutting bits from my 4k/60p HEVC camera files, i made cuts on Keyframes only, i did cuts between keyframes only, and i also did cuts on and between keyframes in single files, and i published screenshots with my results.

This was in one of the other Threads dealing with VRD alternatives, disregard all posts relating to Tipard video editor as they are no longer relevant, turned out that software was a bit strange in the way that it worked.

I also apologize for deleting my videos from my Youtube channel, i think that happened while attempting to move them from one channel to a new one dedicated to video editing software testing, but if i do find them somewhere i might upload them again.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/416487-Alternatives-for-VideoReDo-TV-Suite-with-Test-Results

I might give LosslessCut another go doing it the way that you describe in in your post.

EDIT: I just did some more test cuts with LosslessCut using my 4k/60p HEVC camera files, and i just seem to have minor glitches when i have the Keyframe Cut Mode turned off, but i don't have any issues with that Mode turned on, as long as the start cut for each retained segment is done on a Keyframe, the end cut can be anywhere.

VRD also handles those cut files too, so regardless if i lose VRD Pro or not in the future, when i use LosslessCut with my files, i will just keep the Keyframe Cut mode enabled just to avoid any issues.


[Attachment 86066 - Click to enlarge]

[simon744]

Hello, everyone, again! So, this might sound a little random, even if we're on the right forum, but I was wondering if users who have both VideoReDo and LosslessCut can make another comparison test between the two...because I just realized something quite interesting.

So, I was doing yet another rounds of random testing with these apps, and realized that the "Normal Cut" mode (which is activated when both the "Keyframe cut" and "Smart Cut" mode are unchecked) might actually be frame-accurate and lossless. I tried trimming a TV recording using VideoReDo, and as I was onto it, I copied all the timecodes, and ran them through LosslessCut on "Normal Cut" mode. I kid you not, the results were IDENTICAL! This was/is also true when just cutting out single parts from your video, like a musical performance, etc.

Can somebody also give this another shot, and share their findings?

I recently did a lot of testing with LosslessCut to see how it reacted when cutting bits from my 4k/60p HEVC camera files, i made cuts on Keyframes only, i did cuts between keyframes only, and i also did cuts on and between keyframes in single files, and i published screenshots with my results.

This was in one of the other Threads dealing with VRD alternatives, disregard all posts relating to Tipard video editor as they are no longer relevant, turned out that software was a bit strange in the way that it worked.

I also apologize for deleting my videos from my Youtube channel, i think that happened while attempting to move them from one channel to a new one dedicated to video editing software testing, but if i do find them somewhere i might upload them again.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/416487-Alternatives-for-VideoReDo-TV-Suite-with-Test-Results

I might give LosslessCut another go doing it the way that you describe in in your post.

EDIT: I just did some more test cuts with LosslessCut using my 4k/60p HEVC camera files, and i just seem to have minor glitches when i have the Keyframe Cut Mode turned off, but i don't have any issues with that Mode turned on, as long as the start cut for each retained segment is done on a Keyframe, the end cut can be anywhere.

VRD also handles those cut files too, so regardless if i lose VRD Pro or not in the future, when i use LosslessCut with my files, i will just keep the Keyframe Cut mode enabled just to avoid any issues.


[Attachment 86066 - Click to enlarge]

Thanks for taking the time to do another test. Yeah, LosslessCut is known for not playing well with some HEVC files sometimes, so here's hoping this issue's thoroughly looked at, and taken care of. I've had no problems with HEVC files. However, the ones I worked with and tested on weren't 4K, just 1080p with 4:2:2 chroma.

What about the accuracy, though? Were the cuts as accurate as VDRD?

[Bridgy]

Thanks for taking the time to do another test. Yeah, LosslessCut is known for not playing well with some HEVC files sometimes, so here's hoping this issue's thoroughly looked at, and taken care of. I've had no problems with HEVC files. However, the ones I worked with and tested on weren't 4K, just 1080p with 4:2:2 chroma.

LosslessCut works fine with my 4k/60p HEVC Camera files, which is why i now use it to do my Cuts on my 4k/60p HEVC camera files because VRD has issues with the seeking on the timeline to locate my cut points, it is ok for cutting the start and/or end frames off, or maybe cutting a few frames between, but any more than that it just becomes too slow, sometimes it may even cash.

Unfortunately Dan Rosen passed away before he could fix the few bugs that caused this lagging issue, as well as fixing the crash issue when exporting or saving the cut files, and i know this because i was a Beta tester for Dan with his development of 4k and the implementation of HEVC.

The thing with LosslessCut is that it was not meant to be frame accurate unless your Cuts are made on Keyframes only, and if you disable the Keyframe cut mode i believed the developer does not guarantee accuracy, and this was the issue that i have when using that setting, so i just enable the Keyframe Cut Mode because it works for me.

You may have seen these screenshots from my other Thread that i linked to, but using these 4 Cutting scenarios my files play perfectly, and VRD will import them and export to other formats.

If i make a Cut between Keyframes at the start of any retained segment then that segment will be corrupt during playback.


[Attachment 86083 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 86084 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 86085 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 86086 - Click to enlarge]

What about the accuracy, though? Were the cuts as accurate as VDRD?

Accuracy seems to be spot on when i am doing my cuts as per the screenshots, now some people are very paranoid about frame cut accuracy so i guess that they will need to do their own testing, as for me, i am not a frame peeper (like a pixel peeper) as my cuts do not have to be so accurate that it will destroy my life, in my case because i record in 60p mode my LosslessCut sees my keyframes at every 1 second, or every 60 frames, and that is ok for me.

I have tried many of these so called frame accurate cutting tools, some claim to also do the smart render joining as well, but i mostly had issues with the way that their Cut tool worked, to the point where i got frustrated, when i found LosslessCut i immediately got the same impression with the Cut tool on the timeline so i discarded it, luckily for me i read some documentation about it so i re-installed it and after another test drive of the cutting tool i ended up getting use to it, and it has now become my go to Cut and Smart Render tool.