VHS Capture comparison

[theseeker2]

Which of the following captures of the same frame from a VHS tape do you all prefer?

Capture 1:

[Attachment 84816 - Click to enlarge]

Capture 2:

[Attachment 84817 - Click to enlarge]

Here's the image slider version:https://imgsli.com/MzM4MjY2

[dellsam34]

Neither. What's the back story here?

[SaurusX]

Not to pile on, but both are bad.

[theseeker2]

It's at least a second-generation dub of an antenna broadcast from the 90s, so you're right that the captures are both bad. I thought the second capture with sharpness set to 2 on my ATI USB 600 was better, take a look at the detail on the drums for instance. But I am still pretty new to this so I wanted some more expert opinions! Thanks.

[lollo]

There are no more details in the second, it has just more ... sharpening. I prefer the second, but is a personal taste, especially if you do not plan a post processing. With AviSynth both can be marginally improved, and I think that does not make much difference from which you start. Maybe with the second you need higher denoise and less sharpening in post processing, but is just a speculation.

OTHH, when we say that the condition of the tapes is the most important element for a good capture, is for true

[Alwyn]

Why is that people won't answer a yes/no question but take the time to post anyway?

Definitely the second one.

[theseeker2]

Why is that people won't answer a yes/no question but take the time to post anyway?

Definitely the second one.

I appreciate the direct answer, thanks Alwyn!

I also appreciate the indirect answers with the general feedback. Any and all feedback is more than welcome as I try to figure this all out.

My transfer rig consists of a JVC HR-3900U SVHS on Edit mode with Video Calibration and Stabilizer turned off and a Panasonic DMR-ES10 passed through to a ATI USB 600 capture card. I'm pretty consistently getting better captures when the sharpness is set to the default of 2 rather than turning it down to 0. I realize everyone's experience is different, but thought it was worth sharing mine.

[Name]

Not that I want to hijack this thread, but I wanted to ask exactly the same question; therefore, I just post my samples here too.
If I should make a new post, please let me know.

I'm playing a bit with my JVC S9500 settings, and I would like to know which one is the best version and why.
The captures are taken directly without any filter or adjustments, so if there is already something visible that should be tackled, feedback is appreciated.

1:

[Attachment 84845 - Click to enlarge]

2:

[Attachment 84846 - Click to enlarge]

3:

[Attachment 84847 - Click to enlarge]

Thanks

[Sharc]

2 is the sharpest but has chroma displaced down/left. Can be fixed in post.
(The chroma displacement is also present in the softer 1 and 3 but less eyecatching)

[Name]

Can be fixed in post.

Is the ChromaShift plugin for Avisynth the right choice:
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/ChromaShift

Would you agree that it is off by 4px left and 2 px down?
ChromaShift(C=4,L=-2)

Is chroma displaced unique for each tape, or it is tied to my VCR in general?

[lollo]

Let me guess:

1 -> edit off, D3R off
2 -> edit on, D3R on
3 -> edit on, D3R off

The fourth combination is missing.

For a better analysis you should provide a video sample and not images. Also on progressive source, not interlaced.

If you plan a restoration I prefere 3 because less oversharping and less smoothing. I suspect the combination edit=off D3R=on is missing, which should give the "best" raw capture without restoration, but I may be wrong based on the single image you provided.

[Name]

1:
> B.E.S.T on
> D3R on
> Edit on
> TBC/DNR on

2:
> B.E.S.T on
> D3R on
> Edit off
> TBC/DNR on

3:
> B.E.S.T on
> D3R off
> Edit on
> TBC/DNR on

[lollo]

Yes sorry, edit mode in my 9500MS (french version) is called "copy" and is reversed (copie=M. -> edit=on / copie=A. -> edit=off), so sometime I make confusion.

No surprize 3 is preferred

[Name]

How would you explain the video bit rate difference:

2: 63.6 Mb/s
3: 61.7 Mb/s

I would have thought 3 should be higher because edit is on and more from the "raw" data is preserved.

[lollo]

No explanation, but each analog capture is different than another, even under the same settings. In addition, a lossless codec is not influenced by the noise, because it does not lossy compress; raw lossless YUV 4:2:2 data is what it is.

edit: add lossy

[Name]

But a lossy compression should also have an impact on the file size. Like having a TXT file or compressed with Zip. I thought that maybe more grain would lead to a bigger size, as there are not so many similar pixels that could be compressed.

For the file size, even when analog, for my test tapes I usually got the same size. At least for the first two digits after the comma (xx,xx GB).

But if there is no real explanation, I can live with it. xD

[Sharc]

Can be fixed in post.

Is the ChromaShift plugin for Avisynth the right choice:.....

This or ChromaShiftSP. Make sure that it works for interlaced video, otherwise apply it after deinterlacing only or apply it on a per field base.

[Name]

I see, the ChromaShiftSP works only with progressive.

Are you checking more or less in an image editing tool how many pixels the offset is and afterwards it is a trial and error, or is there a more sophisticated way to find out how big the shift is?

[Sharc]

Open the video in AvsPmod, add the avisynth script and see immediately the effect when playing with the parameters.

[Name]

2 is the sharpest but has chroma displaced down/left. Can be fixed in post.

Would you say the chroma displacement is fixed?


[Attachment 84895 - Click to enlarge]

I ended up not using the plugin, as it was only for 32-bit systems.

So I used the overlay function directly:

Overlay(Last.Greyscale(),Last,X=6,Y=-1,Mode="Chroma")

Is this a valid solution too?

[Alwyn]

64bit Chromashift for Vdub is in the attached package. Works well. Change the extension form ZIP to VDF and place it in your 64 bit plugins folder. There are other JPSDR filters in the pack.

It came from here:

https://github.com/jpsdr/Filtres_JPSDR/releases/tag/20221120

[Name]

This package looks nice. The only problem I have, I can't record my tapes with Vdub. I get some frame inserts and the playback is junky.
Therefore, I do the capture straight via FFMPEG with no issue. The deinterlacing I also do via FFMPEG and QTGMC.
Right now, in my process, Vdub is not included.

[Sharc]

This package looks nice. The only problem I have, I can't record my tapes with Vdub. I get some frame inserts and the playback is junky.
Therefore, I do the capture straight via FFMPEG with no issue. The deinterlacing I also do via FFMPEG and QTGMC.
Right now, in my process, Vdub is not included.

After deinterlacing you can always use ChromaShiftSP on the progressive video. Just add it to your script after the deinterlacer.

Hint: Shifting the chroma will usually create some discolored (gray) lines along the borders of the picture (according to the shift). You may want to crop or mask these.

[Name]

You may want to crop or mask these.

How can I understand this? Are we talking about the boarders of the frame, or the hard edges within the frame/picture itself?

[Sharc]

Borders of the active frame. Do a shift of say 30 pixels down and inspect the top of the picture. You will probably find a grey band there because the chroma (the color) was shifted downwards.