VideoHelp Forum




+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3
1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 69
  1. Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Search Comp PM
    I wanna see the difference in quality between regular VHS and S-VHS. Does anyone know of any youtube videos, or videos on any other site, that would show it?
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Here's something on YouTube
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp-V9uNLqAQ
    Quote Quote  
  3. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    That YT video is misleading, I will just copy/paste my comment I posted on that video 4 years ago to explain why:
    No the difference is much more than what you have come to discover, Your mistakes are:
    1- DVD is not the medium you want to use for this job, It's not about resolution, MPEG-2 compression is crappy plus youtube mp4 compression you have nothing left to show, You should capture lossless AVI 4:2:2 and, de-interlace with QTGMC, resize to 1440x1080 and upload to youtube.
    2- You should use the same S-VHS VCR for both tapes and use S-Video out for both not composite.
    That's what's called a fair comparison.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by snafoo View Post
    I wanna see the difference in quality between regular VHS and S-VHS. Does anyone know of any youtube videos, or videos on any other site, that would show it?
    Get a S-VHS VCR to see for yourself, but this is kind of too late now, recording into VHS is an obsolete task.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Search Comp PM
    i have lots of VHS tapes that i wanna digitize. i know S-VHS is the best VCR type to use. I just wanna see a visual example of the enhanced quality of using S-VHS compared to regular VHS.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by snafoo View Post
    i have lots of VHS tapes that i wanna digitize. i know S-VHS is the best VCR type to use. I just wanna see a visual example of the enhanced quality of using S-VHS compared to regular VHS.
    Are the tapes you want to digitize actually recorded in S-video mode?
    If they are, they most likely wont play properly in a regular (non s-video) machine

    If not, you wont see the benefit the format offers in terms of the increased horizontal resolution.
    You might see some slightly better (cleaner) picture when using the s-video cable due the y/c separation
    Quote Quote  
  7. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Italy
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    That YT video is misleading

    2- You should use the same S-VHS VCR for both tapes and use S-Video out for both not composite.

    That's what's called a fair comparison.
    Yes, a non sense video. He is somehow comparing the 2 VCRs rather than the tapes and the standards. The same player should have been used .

    Originally Posted by snafoo View Post
    i have lots of VHS tapes that i wanna digitize. i know S-VHS is the best VCR type to use. I just wanna see a visual example of the enhanced quality of using S-VHS compared to regular VHS.
    Then you posted a wrong question because you want to see about different players (S-VHS and VHS) fed with the same standard VHS tape.
    I do not find the link, but I remeber that here in videohelp forum or in digitalfaq forum there was an example of a capture of a VHS tape with a VHS VCR and later a capture of the same tape with a high end S-VHS with TBC and Y/C output, and the differences were evident (as you already know, accordingly to what you wrote). Try to do a search.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Italy
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    You might see some slightly better (cleaner) picture when using the s-video cable due the y/c separation
    Not only because Y/C output, but also because high-end S-VHS machines provide a better overall picture compared to basic VHS players.
    Quote Quote  
  9. Originally Posted by davexnet View Post
    You might see some slightly better (cleaner) picture when using the s-video cable due the y/c separation
    All known VHR technologies rely on Y/C separation - Y and C are processed separately and stored separately...
    Quote Quote  
  10. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    Yes, but after processing a regular composite VCR combines the Y and C in one signal resulting in luma to chroma interference, The use of a Y-C capable (consumer S-Video) VCR skips that step.
    Quote Quote  
  11. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Yes, but after processing a regular composite VCR combines the Y and C in one signal resulting in luma to chroma interference, The use of a Y-C capable (consumer S-Video) VCR skips that step.

    But this is optional step i and technically you could avoid this (in fact it will reduce BOM and cost) also you may modify existing VHS recorder (doable if your goal is highest quality).
    Quote Quote  
  12. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Italy
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    But this is optional step i and technically you could avoid this
    No, because despite the recorded signal on tape being Y/C, the composite output is the standard in VHS VCR since the beginning; unfortunately has not been avoided (few TVs had a S-Video input and nobody cared about quality) .
    Quote Quote  
  13. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    But this is optional step i and technically you could avoid this (in fact it will reduce BOM and cost) also you may modify existing VHS recorder (doable if your goal is highest quality).
    Yes you can avoid the composite step by using a S-VHS deck, It's not that easy to modify an existing VHS recorder especially the newer ones, Everything is in the chip, Plus you can't take advantage of good mechanism and TBC used in high end S-VHS VCRs. If there is a better option outhere you think we haven't found it yet?
    Quote Quote  
  14. Originally Posted by snafoo View Post
    I wanna see the difference in quality between regular VHS and S-VHS. Does anyone know of any youtube videos, or videos on any other site, that would show it?
    Good grief, did you bother to do any research before you posted?? A simple search on YouTube using "VHS vs S-VHS comparison" immediately turned up the original comparison which was prepared by JVC, the inventor of VHS and S-VHS:

    JVC's S-VHS vs. VHS Official Comparison (1988 High Quality 60FPS Super VHS Demo Footage)

    The comparison starts at the 2:50 mark. Make sure to turn up the quality to 1080p.
    Quote Quote  
  15. Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Australia-PAL Land
    Search Comp PM
    Plenty of comments there that say "it wasn't worth it".

    These days, in my limited experience with two SVHS machines, the condition of the machine is more important than whether it's VHS or SVHS. The problem, of course, is how you assess that.
    Quote Quote  
  16. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
    Good grief, did you bother to do any research before you posted?? A simple search on YouTube using "VHS vs S-VHS comparison" immediately turned up the original comparison which was prepared by JVC, the inventor of VHS and S-VHS
    Turns out, that's not what the OP is asking for, If you keep reading the thread beyond the original post he wants to see the difference between a S-VHS machine and a regular VHS machine playing the same regular VHS tape, It's hard to do such comparaison with the age of the machines now, But given the fact a S-VHS machine provides separate Y and C, can have line TBC and the mechanism is usually of a high quality, regardless how little the visual difference is, it is still a winner.
    Quote Quote  
  17. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by snafoo View Post
    i have lots of VHS tapes that i wanna digitize. i know S-VHS is the best VCR type to use. I just wanna see a visual example of the enhanced quality of using S-VHS compared to regular VHS.
    Good question. You're not the first to have requested visual evidence and probably wont be the last. It seems claims and counter claims have been made for decades. You would have thought that the visual evidence would have also been freely available online for decades and the matter settled long ago.

    Note that in the JVC video at no point does JVC claim that VHS tapes played on S-VHS machines will look better than on a VHS player. They dont answer that question.

    It's the same in a few JVC S-VHS Owner's Manuals I've read online. In the manuals I've read, JVC states:

    "● To make the most of the Super VHS picture performance we recommend that you use the supplied S-VIDEO cable to connect your VCR to a TV with an S-VIDEO input connector."

    That was the obvious time for JVC to add "and this will also improve the playback quality of your VHS recorded tapes" That was their moment. But JVC said nothing. They missed their big chance to mention the added benefit, in multiple Owners' Manuals of their own new S-VHS machines. Make of that what you will.

    s-video connections first made their appearance on higher definition formats such as S-VHS, Hi8, higher def Beta, DVD, and of course higher def digital formats like DV. Make of that what you will.

    Also why apparently no manufacturer ever issued a separate VHS deck with s-video output is also puzzling. The only decks which did have the s-video output were combo units with a VHS deck plus a higher def format like DVD or Hi8 which formats did require s-video for full quality picture playback.

    Would making good demonstrations of the difference be that hard even today? One good VHS machine and one good S-VHS machine?
    Too difficult?
    Last edited by timtape; 14th Jan 2025 at 06:38.
    Quote Quote  
  18. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Yes you can avoid the composite step by using a S-VHS deck, It's not that easy to modify an existing VHS recorder especially the newer ones, Everything is in the chip, Plus you can't take advantage of good mechanism and TBC used in high end S-VHS VCRs. If there is a better option outhere you think we haven't found it yet?
    Oh well, i recall how many people reacted violently few years ago when i proposed using RF capture to reconstruct magnetic recording - after few years seem this is fair approach in pursuing high quality magnetic tape capture...

    So name that chip that prevent VCR modification to prevent Y and C mixing - i will be glad to confirm your point.

    Side to this as you are quite long in this business then you know that it is the best to use for playout same recorder that was used in first place to made recording.

    S-Video VCR are usually more expensive, less common especially nowadays.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    But this is optional step i and technically you could avoid this
    No, because despite the recorded signal on tape being Y/C, the composite output is the standard in VHS VCR since the beginning; unfortunately has not been avoided (few TVs had a S-Video input and nobody cared about quality) .
    You can simply modify your VCR to prevent Y and C mixing - this less challenging task than buying S-Video capable VCR in good mechanical shape today (and way cheaper).
    Quote Quote  
  20. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Italy
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    You can simply modify your VCR to prevent Y and C mixing - this less challenging task than buying S-Video capable VCR in good mechanical shape today (and way cheaper).
    You continue to forget that the intrinsic quality of a S-VHS VCR is higher than a VHS VCR anyhow. Y/C separation is not the only reason.
    Quote Quote  
  21. For example luma and chroma lowpass filters have usually a wider bandwidth for S-video players, so these filters would have to be touched as well when "upgrading" a VHS VCR to "S-VHS". Also the delay between luma and chroma will have to be re-aligned. Not straightforward and eventually still a compromise.
    (On the negative an S-VHS VCR will not only recover more details from the VHS tape but also more noise.)
    Quote Quote  
  22. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    You can simply modify your VCR to prevent Y and C mixing - this less challenging task than buying S-Video capable VCR in good mechanical shape today (and way cheaper).
    You can "simply" start modifying them, I will start selling them, If you can add a line TBC that would be the cherry on the top, Let me know when you're ready.
    Quote Quote  
  23. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by timtape View Post
    Note that in the JVC video at no point does JVC claim that VHS tapes played on S-VHS machines will look better than on a VHS player. They dont answer that question.

    It's the same in a few JVC S-VHS Owner's Manuals I've read online. In the manuals I've read, JVC states:
    JVC is in the marketing business, they wanted you to use S-VHS tapes not VHS tapes, so they don't need to make such a claim, though later in the years of VHS era they did come up with S-VHS ET to boost VHS tape sales, But JVC's goal of S-VHS recording and S-VHS tapes is to improve the luma bandwidth even when using composite, they know 90% of their customer base don't have a way to display S-Video, Sony in Beta didn't even bother to put a S-Video socket on almost all their Super Beta machines except one model I believe which is a US/Japan only.

    Now in the capturing era we use such machines to bypass the composite stage which degrades the quality a bit especially chroma, and take advantage of line TBC/DNR, Whether someone sees the difference or not it all depends on how they do the test and how trained their eyes are, I certainly see the difference between composite and S-Video on the same S-VHS machine, let alone compared to a low end composite Funai VCR.
    Quote Quote  
  24. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    (On the negative an S-VHS VCR will not only recover more details from the VHS tape but also more noise.)
    That's not a negative side, it recovers more details, The noise can be reduced using its built in TBC/DNR, VHS is dull, it can't show the details that you describe as noise.
    Quote Quote  
  25. Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    You continue to forget that the intrinsic quality of a S-VHS VCR is higher than a VHS VCR anyhow. Y/C separation is not the only reason.
    do not forget anything - i just refereed to point where as one of main advances of the S-VHS over VHS was Y/S separated output - from my perspective this is second grade difference... so i just pointed that most of VHS VCR's can be easily modified to provide separated Y & C signal.
    I agree that S-VHS has important advances over VHS - never claimed anything contrary to this.



    Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
    For example luma and chroma lowpass filters have usually a wider bandwidth for S-video players, so these filters would have to be touched as well when "upgrading" a VHS VCR to "S-VHS". Also the delay between luma and chroma will have to be re-aligned. Not straightforward and eventually still a compromise.
    (On the negative an S-VHS VCR will not only recover more details from the VHS tape but also more noise.)
    You forget that S-VHS use different video heads and probably also different signal path to play VHS recordings...



    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    You can "simply" start modifying them, I will start selling them, If you can add a line TBC that would be the cherry on the top, Let me know when you're ready.
    How clever business man you are... so i put effort and knowledge and you will be the seller and you take profit (eventually generously split profit between you and me) but i take all risk... clever business model...
    Last edited by pandy; 14th Jan 2025 at 12:59.
    Quote Quote  
  26. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    You do realize that sounds stupid, I'll take it as you're ditching the original question.
    Quote Quote  
  27. Captures & Restoration lollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Italy
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post
    from my perspective this is second grade difference
    It is not.

    Sorry pandy, but looking to your other posts in this thread I understand you have no experience in the subject, so I stop here. Everything useful has already been said.
    Quote Quote  
  28. Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    You do realize that sounds stupid, I'll take it as you're ditching the original question.
    LoL... hilarious - i had similar impression for your proposal... btw - there was no original question unless i should take seriously your "ice water bucket challenge" - i'm too old for such BS...

    Originally Posted by lollo View Post
    It is not.

    Sorry pandy, but looking to your other posts in this thread I understand you have no experience in the subject, so I stop here. Everything useful has already been said.
    hahaha - good one - nope, obviously you have all "experience in the subject" so you probably not even now how to find Y & C signal in VCR...
    Last edited by pandy; 14th Jan 2025 at 18:48.
    Quote Quote  
  29. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2024
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Originally Posted by timtape View Post
    Note that in the JVC video at no point does JVC claim that VHS tapes played on S-VHS machines will look better than on a VHS player. They dont answer that question.

    It's the same in a few JVC S-VHS Owner's Manuals I've read online. In the manuals I've read, JVC states:
    JVC is in the marketing business, they wanted you to use S-VHS tapes not VHS tapes, so they don't need to make such a claim, though later in the years of VHS era they did come up with S-VHS ET to boost VHS tape sales, But JVC's goal of S-VHS recording and S-VHS tapes is to improve the luma bandwidth even when using composite, they know 90% of their customer base don't have a way to display S-Video, Sony in Beta didn't even bother to put a S-Video socket on almost all their Super Beta machines except one model I believe which is a US/Japan only.
    Then I dont understand why no company appears to have eventually made a VHS deck with S-Video output. It would have been attractive for customers because much cheaper than buying an S-VHS deck and they could play all their VHS tapes, past present and future, removing the claimed bottleneck of the composite output.

    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Now in the capturing era we use such machines to bypass the composite stage which degrades the quality a bit especially chroma, and take advantage of line TBC/DNR, Whether someone sees the difference or not it all depends on how they do the test and how trained their eyes are, I certainly see the difference between composite and S-Video on the same S-VHS machine, let alone compared to a low end composite Funai VCR.
    The problem with mere word based discussions like these is people reading dont get to SEE how much or how little a difference it makes. Like so many times before we have strayed away from the OP's perfectly legitimate and understandable request for visual examples and into mere text based arguments. As if the OP didnt even ask the question! Talking about pictures without showing those pictures. I find it very strange. The old saying is "a picture is worth 1000 words." Have we forgotten that? Give people the visual information to make the decision for themselves.
    Last edited by timtape; 14th Jan 2025 at 21:56.
    Quote Quote  
  30. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Member Since 2005, Re-joined in 2016
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by pandy View Post

    LoL... hilarious - i had similar impression for your proposal... btw - there was no original question unless i should take seriously your "ice water bucket challenge" - i'm too old for such BS...
    You know, we know, you can't modify a VCR, If you are too old for the BS don't start it.
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads

Visit our sponsor! Try DVDFab and backup Blu-rays!