Workflow (PAL) for VHS-C to digital?

[tko4]

I'm in the process of digitizing old PAL VHS-C tapes and aim for good quality. I’ve already tried Elgato Video Capture with my old, crappy VCR and got terrible results. After some research, I'm planning to rent either the JVC HR-S7600 or the JVC HR-S9500 from VCRshop. Is there a significant difference between these models or it doesn't matter as long as the VCR supports TBC?

For capturing, I'm between the Hauppauge WinTV-USB-Live-2 and the GV-USB2 but leaning towards the Hauppauge after seeing some videos from lollo's YT channel. However, I've also heard good things about the GV-USB2, so I’d like any input if someone has used both.

On top of that, I’ve noticed two different models of the Hauppauge:

• Hauppauge 1341
• Hauppauge 610

Are they essentially the same or do they have notable differences that would have to consider?

Also are there any other things I should think about e.g. adapters or software

I would greatly appreciate any feedback or recommendations based on your experiences. Thanks!

[lollo]

Concerning VCR I prefer X5XX series, because less aggressive chroma noise reduction compared to X6XX series.
9X00 series has some more advanced features for image processing than 7X00 series, but because you want ot capture in edit mode, it does not really matter.
More than that, the important aspect is the actual condition of the machines. VCRshop is a trusted provider, at least for PAL machines.

Concerning the capture card, provided that you feed it with a Y/C and time base corrected signal (true for both HR-S9500 and HR-S7600) I have a preference on the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 compared to the IOData GV-USB2, but the difference is minimal. Both are nice modern USB capture cards.

VHC-C adapter also play a role for a nice capture.

Once done, post some significant sample here, we can help you with the restoration phase!

[tko4]

Concerning VCR I prefer X5XX series, because less aggressive chroma noise reduction compared to X6XX series.
9X00 series has some more advanced features for image processing than 7X00 series, but because you want ot capture in edit mode, it does not really matter.
More than that, the important aspect is the actual condition of the machines. VCRshop is a trusted provider, at least for PAL machines.

Concerning the capture card, provided that you feed it with a Y/C and time base corrected signal (true for both HR-S9500 and HR-S7600) I have a preference on the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 compared to the IOData GV-USB2, but the difference is minimal. Both are nice modern USB capture cards.

VHC-C adapter also play a role for a nice capture.

Once done, post some significant sample here, we can help you with the restoration phase!

Thanks for the reply! Are there any differences between Hauppauge 1341 & Hauppauge 610?

[Alwyn]

I’ve already tried Elgato Video Capture with my old, crappy VCR and got terrible results.

Probably the VCR and also the poor default setup of the Elgato. Have a read of my notes about it here.

Reasonably British has done a review of it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCK-6rVp3m0

While I don't own one, I suspect that it gets a bad rap unfairly. If you used it with a Lossless capture workflow (AmarecTV or Virtual Dub) I wouldn't be surprised if it performs as well as the Live2 or GV (both of which I own).

And if you come across a YT review of the elgato by VWestlife, you can largely ignore it. He doesn't know what he is talking about.

My Live2, which I purchased last year, has "Model 610" on the box.

You will need some sort of stabiliser for any of these dongles, so make sure the VCR you get has a TBC.

VCRshop is a trusted provider

I've got records of a few instances where they sent out dodgy stuff to people (but rectified the issue). So even though they seem beyond reproach, be ready for possible issues.

[lollo]

Thanks for the reply! Are there any differences between Hauppauge 1341 & Hauppauge 610?

None, same hardware, different names for different markets.

[Sharc]

Concerning the capture card, provided that you feed it with a Y/C and time base corrected signal (true for both HR-S9500 and HR-S7600) I have a preference on the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 compared to the IOData GV-USB2, but the difference is minimal. Both are nice modern USB capture cards.

Yes, the 2 devices are basically fine. Comparisons have been made before. The footnote I put for the USB-Live2 is its dodgy termination impedance for the C-wire. It should be 75 Ohms as per S-video specs but it looks rather like ~150 .... 180 Ohms (magnitude). Maybe it is even not purely resisitve. While the signal reflection which this causes may not be critical in practice, the C-wire level increase compared to the signal on the Y-wire may affect the color (as to how much it is compensated internally I don't know), and the higher amplitude on the C-wire adds to chroma->luma crosstalk for mediocre (avoid poor cables anyway) S-video cables.
One can correct colors in post though, and VHS may require post processing anyway, so one can live with it I'd say.
The termination impedances of the GV-USB2 is ok for both Y and C wire. For same source one can see the slight color difference between the 2 devices using testpatterns, hardly visible for "natural" sources though. As to how much the odd C-wire termination contributes to this I don't know.

[lollo]

I never measured the impedance of the C wire, I just see that the final result is not affected by the (theoretical) reflection. When I compare the colors versus a known trusted reference I see no problems:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVRkQQxODf8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ5WSPceqjs&t=95s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TK159f1-3M

Concerning the higher amplitude and (theoretical) higher contamination to luma signal, in any case a good S-Video cable should not allow that (I use high-end Video Monster Cables).

I suspect that the out of spec impedance has no impact on the color difference; just speculating.

[tko4]

Concerning VCR I prefer X5XX series, because less aggressive chroma noise reduction compared to X6XX series.
9X00 series has some more advanced features for image processing than 7X00 series, but because you want ot capture in edit mode, it does not really matter.
More than that, the important aspect is the actual condition of the machines. VCRshop is a trusted provider, at least for PAL machines.

Concerning the capture card, provided that you feed it with a Y/C and time base corrected signal (true for both HR-S9500 and HR-S7600) I have a preference on the Hauppauge USB-Live 2 compared to the IOData GV-USB2, but the difference is minimal. Both are nice modern USB capture cards.

VHC-C adapter also play a role for a nice capture.

Once done, post some significant sample here, we can help you with the restoration phase!

Is there any reason why JVC HR-S9500 is not recommended in smurf's list? btw VCRshop also has the JVC HR-S9600 available.

[Sharc]

I suspect that the out of spec impedance has no impact on the color difference; just speculating.

See my comparison here. I don't know whether the slight differences can be attributed to the impedance mismatch and Y/C levels skew though. Just speculating as well ...
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/416460-Best-Patterns-to-test-VCRs-Capture-Cards-TB...th#post2756579

[lollo]

Is there any reason why JVC HR-S9500 is not recommended in smurf's list?

No idea, but have you seen any capture from him using a JVC HR-S9500 showing any defect?

[lollo]

I suspect that the out of spec impedance has no impact on the color difference; just speculating.

See my comparison here. I don't know whether the slight differences can be attributed to the impedance mismatch and Y/C levels skew though. Just speculating as well ...
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/416460-Best-Patterns-to-test-VCRs-Capture-Cards-TB...th#post2756579

Sharc, every time I do an analog capture on the same source I get (slightly) different colors with the same card (being USB-Live 2 or GV-USB2).

Just to say that the overall external conditions (player deviations at each play, settings, procamp adjustements, day of the week (just joking)) play a role, maybe overriding any intrinsic deviation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1jpyNRGNGY

Just speculating

[dellsam34]

I take it as the JVC 9500 and 9600 series are newer than the 7500 and 7600 series, I'm I wrong? From manuals I can't see any significant difference in terms of features, Even if someone owns all of them, at this point it's hard to make a faithfull comparison due to the machines' age, Unfortunately no one has done such comparison 20 or so years ago when these machines were fairly new. But I think it's a good idea to get the newest model hoping it wasn't heavily abused because chances are the hour meter is lower in a newer model than an older model, though it is not always the case.

I know the 7600 series are among the best VCRs JVC ever made, from there on they stripped down their models to basic minimum to cut cost, remember that's the era when demand for VCRs started to dwindle down and DVD was gaining attraction.