Any Idea how to Recognise Surround Audio Format (Atmos-Dolby etc)

[therock003]

When i have a media file (mkv-mp4) and it contains surround sound audio inside, how do i know its origins. Like if it is Dolby Atmos or TrueHD Atmos or DTS-HD MA. All i see on the track info is E-AC3 6 Channels. Is there any way to know for sure?

Also besides that im so confused with all those formats and which format a player and software support etc etc.

I have the JBL Bar 1000 which is a Soundbar that Supports Atmos and Google Chromecast with GTV as my media player, and inside that various sodtware (mxplayer/VLC/Just Player/Kmplayer/etc) which i use interchangeably

I just need to make sure i have the proper setup and audio is coming out correctly.

My soundbar sadly doesn offer an option to display the sound its playing. Its mostly says PCM when i start playing a file...

Any help to clear this whole confusion is greatly appreciated guys.

TLDR Bullet Points

-What audio is included in any given file
-What format is played in my soundbar
-Correct setup and communication between devices to play sound without conversions until it reaches the soundbar
-Craziness between various formats

[netmask56]

When i have a media file (mkv-mp4) and it contains surround sound audio inside, how do i know its origins. Like if it is Dolby Atmos or TrueHD Atmos or DTS-HD MA. All i see on the track info is E-AC3 6 Channels. Is there any way to know for sure?

Also besides that im so confused with all those formats and which format a player and software support etc etc.

I have the JBL Bar 1000 which is a Soundbar that Supports Atmos and Google Chromecast with GTV as my media player, and inside that various sodtware (mxplayer/VLC/Just Player/Kmplayer/etc) which i use interchangeably

I just need to make sure i have the proper setup and audio is coming out correctly.

My soundbar sadly doesn offer an option to display the sound its playing. Its mostly says PCM when i start playing a file...

Any help to clear this whole confusion is greatly appreciated guys.

TLDR Bullet Points

-What audio is included in any given file
-What format is played in my soundbar
-Correct setup and communication between devices to play sound without conversions until it reaches the soundbar
-Craziness between various formats

To check the file post a MediaInfo file report. Text mode. It will look like this

Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4
File size                                : 15.2 GiB
Duration                                 : 1 h 54 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 18.9 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 23.976 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2023-05-15 20:29:54 UTC
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v74.0.0 ('You Oughta Know') 64-bit
Writing library                          : libebml v1.4.4 + libmatroska v1.7.1

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format                               : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 1 h 54 min
Bit rate                                 : 14.0 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 1 608 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 2.39:1
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.095
Stream size                              : 11.2 GiB (74%)
Writing library                          : x265 2.5+58-06979c042350:[Windows][GCC 6.2.1][64 bit] 10bit
Encoding settings                        : cpuid=1050111 / frame-threads=4 / numa-pools=15,15 / wpp / no-pmode / no-pme / no-psnr / no-ssim / log-level=2 / input-csp=1 / input-res=3840x1608 / interlace=0 / total-frames=165084 / level-idc=51 / high-tier=1 / uhd-bd=0 / ref=4 / no-allow-non-conformance / repeat-headers / annexb / aud / hrd / info / hash=0 / no-temporal-layers / no-open-gop / min-keyint=1 / keyint=24 / bframes=4 / b-adapt=2 / b-pyramid / bframe-bias=0 / rc-lookahead=25 / lookahead-slices=4 / scenecut=40 / no-intra-refresh / ctu=64 / min-cu-size=8 / rect / no-amp / max-tu-size=32 / tu-inter-depth=1 / tu-intra-depth=1 / limit-tu=0 / rdoq-level=2 / dynamic-rd=0.00 / no-ssim-rd / signhide / no-tskip / nr-intra=0 / nr-inter=0 / no-constrained-intra / no-strong-intra-smoothing / max-merge=3 / limit-refs=3 / limit-modes / me=3 / subme=3 / merange=57 / temporal-mvp / weightp / no-weightb / no-analyze-src-pics / deblock=-3:-3 / no-sao / no-sao-non-deblock / rd=4 / no-early-skip / rskip / no-fast-intra / no-tskip-fast / no-cu-lossless / no-b-intra / no-splitrd-skip / rdpenalty=0 / psy-rd=2.00 / psy-rdoq=1.00 / no-rd-refine / analysis-reuse-mode=0 / no-lossless / cbqpoffs=0 / crqpoffs=0 / rc=crf / crf=17.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpstep=4 / stats-write=0 / stats-read=0 / vbv-maxrate=160000 / vbv-bufsize=160000 / vbv-init=0.9 / crf-max=0.0 / crf-min=0.0 / ipratio=1.40 / pbratio=1.30 / aq-mode=1 / aq-strength=1.00 / cutree / zone-count=0 / no-strict-cbr / qg-size=32 / no-rc-grain / qpmax=69 / qpmin=0 / no-const-vbv / sar=1 / overscan=0 / videoformat=5 / range=0 / colorprim=9 / transfer=16 / colormatrix=9 / chromaloc=1 / chromaloc-top=2 / chromaloc-bottom=2 / display-window=0 / master-display=G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15635,16450)L(10000000,50) / max-cll=600,487 / min-luma=0 / max-luma=1023 / log2-max-poc-lsb=8 / vui-timing-info / vui-hrd-info / slices=1 / no-opt-qp-pps / no-opt-ref-list-length-pps / no-multi-pass-opt-rps / scenecut-bias=0.05 / no-opt-cu-delta-qp / no-aq-motion / hdr / hdr-opt / no-dhdr10-opt / analysis-reuse-level=5 / scale-factor=0 / refine-intra=0 / refine-inter=0 / refine-mv=0 / no-limit-sao / ctu-info=0 / no-lowpass-dct / refine-mv-type=0 / copy-pic=1
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 600 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 487 cd/m2

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DTS XLL X
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name                          : DTS-HD MA + DTS:X
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 1 h 54 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 4 671 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel layout                           : C L R LFE Lb Rb Lss Rss Objects
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Stream size                              : 3.74 GiB (25%)
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio #2
ID                                       : 3
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Format settings                          : Dolby Surround
Codec ID                                 : A_AC3
Duration                                 : 1 h 54 min
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 158 MiB (1%)
Title                                    : Commentary with director David Leitch and editor Elísabet Ronaldsdóttir
Language                                 : English
Service kind                             : Complete Main
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No
Dialog Normalization                     : -31 dB
compr                                    : 5.46 dB
dsurmod                                  : Dolby Surround encoded
mixlevel                                 : 281 dB
roomtyp                                  : 3
ltrtcmixlev                              : -3.0 dB
ltrtsurmixlev                            : -3.0 dB
lorocmixlev                              : -3.0 dB
lorosurmixlev                            : -3.0 dB
dialnorm_Average                         : -31 dB
dialnorm_Minimum                         : -31 dB
dialnorm_Maximum                         : -31 dB

Text #1
ID                                       : 4
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                                 : 1 h 47 min
Bit rate                                 : 31.5 kb/s
Frame rate                               : 0.374 FPS
Count of elements                        : 2411
Stream size                              : 24.3 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : SDH
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Text #2
ID                                       : 5
Format                                   : PGS
Muxing mode                              : zlib
Codec ID                                 : S_HDMV/PGS
Codec ID/Info                            : Picture based subtitle format used on BDs/HD-DVDs
Duration                                 : 1 h 54 min
Bit rate                                 : 58.6 kb/s
Frame rate                               : 0.541 FPS
Count of elements                        : 3706
Stream size                              : 47.9 MiB (0%)
Title                                    : Commentary
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : No
Forced                                   : No

Menu
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[Ennio]

As netmask56 stated, MediaInfo is the tool for identifying formats and codecs.

My soundbar sadly doesn offer an option to display the sound its playing. Its mostly says PCM when i start playing a file...

If it receives audio that's already been decoded by the player, then PCM is what it gets. Dunno what formats your soundbar can decode by itself. Assuming you have it connected via HDMI, try to set sound to "bitstream out" from whatever player you have running. Then audio is transferred un-decoded over HDMI. When receiving native format, the soundbar may decode itself and possibly the source format is then properly displayed.

[therock003]

Thanx guys, yes this software is what i was looking for.

So i checked it an the file i was trying to play and showed PCM on my Soundbar was DTS. Thne i played another one that was Dolby Atmos and sure enough Dolby Atmos displayed on my Soundbar.

But why did DTS show as PCM? Are we sure PCM means thar audio is being decoded before it raches the bar? Cause AFIAK PCM is pure uncompressed format.

As far as configuration goes ive set all possible settings to allow for bitstream and leave everything unhandled by hardware before it reaches the Bar.

On My PS5 ive selected Atmos and i also get Atmos displayed. On my PC ive downloaded the Dolby Access plugin from MSstore, set Dolby as surround audio in settings, but im getting Multi Channel PCM showing on the bar...

I just need to sort everything out and get peace of mind...

[Ennio]

But why did DTS show as PCM?

Probably because it was decoded by the player and put out as multichannel pcm to the soundbar.

Are we sure PCM means thar audio is being decoded before it raches the bar? Cause AFIAK PCM is pure uncompressed format.

Yes I think so. And it's true that pcm is uncompressed, which in multichannel can be send over HDMI.

On My PS5 ive selected Atmos and i also get Atmos displayed.

"Atmos displayed" where? As on your soundbar? Then things are the way it should, my guess. Note that you can't play Atmos and DTS:X "objects" when they are decoded by the player to be send over HDMI. Won't work. The objects metadata and soundpackets will go lost and only the 7.1 flatbed channels will be output as multichannel pcm. The height-speaker channels are to be created by the Atmos amp itself. So here, by your soundbar (given it's able to decode these kinds of audio).
If you have height-speakers installed, you can tell the difference. If you don't have them, there's no problem that only flatbed multichannel pcm is send over HDMI.

[therock003]

"Atmos displayed" where? As on your soundbar? Then things are the way it should, my guess. Note that you can't play Atmos and DTS:X "objects" when they are decoded by the player to be send over HDMI. Won't work. The objects metadata and soundpackets will go lost and only the 7.1 flatbed channels will be output as multichannel pcm. The height-speaker channels are to be created by the Atmos amp itself. So here, by your soundbar (given it's able to decode these kinds of audio).
If you have height-speakers installed, you can tell the difference. If you don't have them, there's no problem that only flatbed multichannel pcm is send over HDMI.

Yes my Soundbar has a small Display and i see there what is supposed to be playing. So if it says Dolby Atmos im relieved everythings fine. When it Says PCM or MultiCH PCM i start worrying whats going on.

So far on files that have Dolby Atmos and on my PS5 it says Dolby Atmos Indeed. On my PC it says MultiCH PCM. Although maybe it was just the game. Ill have to try one on this list that Supports Dolby Atmos and see if i can get it right on the PC As well

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_games_that_support_Dolby_Atmos

But im worried about DTS. As ive said on Plex it plays a DTS file and bar displayed PCM, whereas another player says DTS Neuralink X...

If you have height-speakers installed, you can tell the difference. If you don't have them, there's no problem that only flatbed multichannel pcm is send over HDMI.

Wait, whats that? How do you mena exactly? My sound bar is Dolby Atmos, and the Surround Speakers are also height Speakers

https://www.jbl.com/soundbars/BAR-1000-.html

[Ennio]

I said this in case of a player decoding Atmos or DTS:X instead of forwarding it as bitstream. Then only the base 7.1 channels are decoded. Object information goes lost. And this would be no big deal in case you shouldn't have height-speakers installed.

But since you get Atmos displayed on your soundbar, things seem ok. I take it sound is coming from your height-speakers. Your soundbar can never recognize Atmos when it's already decoded by a player and send as pcm multichannel.

[therock003]

I found a page where you get a lot of surround audio test files, so i have been testing those formats (no copyright material dont worry)

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1JxmeedtAtgmoafXv9rroiDOS2vEX7N4b

So on formats that are not properly displayed on my soundbar i suppose theyre are not played correctly. For example im having problem with DTS files, and when i play those fiels, the individual channel that was supposed to play through the fron speakers is also played in the back ones simulataeously. So i guess this means its a no go then for true surround on those formats right?

I think its due to my Chromecast with AndroiTV

I will now try connecting my laptop and try playing those files from there. BTW how can you bitsream through windows and havbe the audio reach the soundbar untouched?

[Ennio]

...So i guess this means its a no go then for true surround on those formats right?

Don't know why DTS files are problematic. Chances are the player doesn't do proper decoding and/or screws up channel configuration. You can check if your soundbar does a better job. Try to output dts as bitstream (on a player that can do so). And then see if the soundbar - now receiving dts bitstream - does proper dts decoding.