Alternatives for VideoReDo TV Suite with Test Results

[codemaster]

I would set "encoder profile" and "encoder level" to "auto", just in case Handbrake doesn't choose the right profile and level when i change resolution and fps. But if you don't change resolution and/or fps in the selected preset at the top-left, then it's safe to not set them to "auto".

[Bridgy]

I would set "encoder profile" and "encoder level" to "auto", just in case Handbrake doesn't choose the right profile and level when i change resolution and fps. But if you don't change resolution and/or fps in the selected preset at the top-left, it's safe to not set them to "auto".

Yeah i got you now, been testing and messing about with Handbrake for many hours now and just now started feeling comfortable with the CRF Factor settings, i am just too used to working in Bitrates and i kind of knew what Bitrate i should use for a given export, based on the Bitrate of the source file, but clearly CRF does things differently, so i will now use Handbrake exclusively for Exports to other formats when needed.

How great it would be if they just added a Smart Cutting/Smart Render tool as well, and a simple VRD style Titles feature too (just for me)

Seems like there is only a small handful of members in this forum who are interested in this Thread, shame we didn't have more input, especially from other VRD members, but i especially like to thank you for helping me get thru Handbrake, how many times i tried it over the years and just fell over with the CRF settings, i lost count.

[codemaster]

Most editors choose the NLE route, not the lossless cutting route. So no one is interested to develop a titles feature for LosslessCut or Handbrake, if almost no one is going to need it.

When I switched to hardware encoding to encode 4K at a reasonable duration on my 4-core CPU, I didn't know what bitrate to specify. But I understood CRF, and I found out what bitrate to use by encoding a high-motion high-complexity video, using x264 CRF 18 and 15, and opening the output file in MediaInfo to see how much bitrate is required to not notice degradation. 4K 60p AVC required min 56 Mb/s max 84 Mb/s, and 4K 30p AVC required min 39 Mb/s max 56 Mb/s.

[Bridgy]

Most editors choose the NLE route, not the lossless cutting route. So no one is interested to develop a titles feature for LosslessCut or Handbrake, if almost no one is going to need it.

Yeah i understand that, and most of my Titles and end Credits are requested by my clients who pay me to edit their camera files for them, many are older people who probably still have DVD and/or BD players hooked up to their TV, and they seem to like a short Title as in intro, and i personally like the idea.

I shoot a lot of Travel videos when we go overseas and i put titles on those, and in some cases where i move from 1 scene to another, i will add a short title between the cut points too, like you might have seen back in the day when fade in/out was used between scenes.

When I switched to hardware encoding to encode 4K at a reasonable duration on my entry-level AMD 4-core CPU, I didn't know what bitrate to specify. I found out what bitrate to use by encoding a high-motion high-complexity video, using CRF 15 in x264, and opening the output file in MediaInfo to see how much bitrate is required to not notice degradation.

Dan Rosen always told me that if i ever needed to use Hardware encoding, i should use Intel QuickSync over any other hardware encoder (if i had an Intel CPU) because it was far superior, that was many years ago, and my current laptop has a 6 core i7 Intel CPU with HD630 graphics, plus a dedicated GTX1050 as well, so i would not know where to start when it comes to hardware based encoding, surely the settings would need to change, even with Handbrake.

My task this afternoon is to import my 4k/60p HEVC test file into Handbrake and export to 4k/60p AVC using the NVENC and QSV encoding with the CRF 18 setting that you advised, and do a comparison to the export that i did using the x264 Encoder (CPU)

EDIT: i just noted that when i import the source file and then try to select my export Preset for Hardware encoding, there is only 4 options, and all 4 are for H265, so i selected the H265 QSV 4K option, but i then changed to Video Encoder from H265 to H264 and when i tried to set the CRF factor to 18, there is a reference to ICQ above the slider, not sure what this might be.


[Attachment 84603 - Click to enlarge]

EDIT 2: Wow the 4k/60p HEVC file (40Mbps) recoded to AVC at CRF 18 but the Bitrate was a whopping 124Mbps, it should be at least 70Mbps for that source file, so i increased the CRF factor to 22 and the resulting Bitrate was 68Mbps, which is much closer to what i thought it should be, but again, this is using QSV so the CRF factor may well be different than if using x264 encoding.

The QSV encodes took 45 seconds for the 30 second source file, x264 encoder took 5 to 6 minutes.

[codemaster]

ICQ is the "look ahead" feature of the encoder. It should be enabled. x264 and x265 encoders have "look ahead" and CRF uses it. I don't know what is the CRF equivalent for QSV, but x264 CRF 18 allocates max 56.4 Mb/s to 4K 60p AVC. My AVC hardware encoder encodes 14x faster than software encoders.

[Bridgy]

ICQ is the "look ahead" feature of the encoder. It should be enabled. x264 and x265 encoders have "look ahead" and CRF uses it. I don't know what is the CRF equivalent for QSV, but x264 CRF 18 allocates max 56.4 Mb/s to 4K 60fps AVC. My AMD hardware encoder encodes 14x faster than software encoders.

What CPU are you running ?

My sons current editing PC that i will be getting from him in a few months is 4 years old, but we used a fast AMD CPU in that, which i think makes it 2 times better than my 6 core Intel in my laptop, so my x264/x265 encoding might be 2 or 3 times faster than my laptop, but that is ok for me because i don't do a lot of Exports to other formats, and most of the files are 15 to 30 minutes long, but that computer will become my main desktop pc and the laptop will be used as my portable machine.

[codemaster]

I use 4-core CPU with integrated GPU. I do software encoding with it in most cases, but in some cases I don't have enough time and I do hardware encoding with it. It's integrated GPU is 14x faster at HEVC encoding than the CPU.

[Bridgy]

I use an AMD 4-core desktop CPU, with integrated 8-core AMD GPU. I do software encoding with it in most cases, but in some cases I don't have enough time and I do hardware encoding with it. It's integrated GPU is 14x faster at HEVC encoding than the CPU.

Yeah i can see why you would do Hardware Encoding sometimes, especially on longer files.

I would say that my QSV and NVENC is around 10 times faster than my x264/x265 encoding, so a 1 hour file would take say 9 hours to encode, this is why i want my son's editing pc, should drop that to 5 hours, and suffer, i just don't like the hardware encoders and i just can't be bothered learning everything again if i need to use different settings than i do for software encoding.

BTW i just tried using SolveigMM Video Splitter again on my 4k/60p HEVC files and it does not like them one bit, seems like a lot of these small stand alone or dedicated Video Cutting/Smart Render tools don't have much HEVC support at all, as i have tried most of them mentioned in this Thread and i think only one has support, but the Cutting tool is absurdly stupid, like most of them are.

So far LosslessCut is the only dedicated Cutting/Smart Render tool that can deal with my 4k and 1080p HEVC files 100%, both when previewing the file and selecting Cut points on the timeline, as long as the Start cut on each retained segment is made on a Keyframe.

These files will play perfectly in any Media Player, and VRD will import the file for adding Titles or exporting.

Again, i will continue to use my VRD Pro for Cutting, add Titles, and Smart Render them, but Handbrake will be my new Tool for Exporting to other formats etc.

[jagabo]

You guys keep talking about hardware encoders being X times faster than x264/x265 but you don't say what settings or presets your are using. There's literally a 100 fold difference in encoding speed between x264 at ultrafast and placebo. I've never tested x265 at those extremes but I bet it's similar. The hardware encoders have different speeds too.

I've moved on from 8 bit x264 to 10 bit HEVC with hardware (NVENC or QS) mostly because you get smoother gradients with 10 bit encoding (even with 8 bit sources) and 10 bit HEVC is well supported with modern player hardware.

[Bridgy]

You guys keep talking about hardware encoders being X times faster than x264/x265 but you don't say what settings or presets your are using. There's literally a 100 fold difference in encoding speed between x264 at ultrafast and placebo. I've never tested x265 at those extremes but I bet it's similar. The hardware encoders have different speeds too.

I don't use Hardware encoding so for me no need to inform of my settings, i used it a few times with VRD Pro, but that was a long time ago, after Dan Rosen gave me the drill about Hardware VS Software.

So does changing the Speed from say Ultra Fast to say Slow make any difference to the Video Quality, i thought it would, that is why i just use Medium for x264 and x265 encoding.

I've moved on from 8 bit x264 to 10 bit HEVC with hardware (NVENC or QS) mostly because you get smoother gradients with 10 bit encoding (even with 8 bit sources) and 10 bit HEVC is well supported with modern player hardware.

I didn't know that we can use 10 bit preset if the source is only 8 bit like my files are.

As an example, in my previous posts testing my own 4k/60p AVC files with Handbrake to export to HEVC, after i set the export Preset to 2160p60 4K HEVC it loaded the H.265 10-bit (x265) setting for the Video Encoder automatically, so should we use that, and what other settings should be changed, do we still use CRF 18 for HEVC to AVC, and CRF 20 for AVC to HEVC as codemaster has suggested to me.

In the following example, after selecting the Preset for my 4k/60p AVC file, these were the default settings.


[Attachment 84604 - Click to enlarge]

EDIT: i just did a test export of the 30 second 4k/60p AVC file to 4k/60p 10 bit HEVC @ CRF 18 (x265 encoder) just to test the speed and Bitrate at the end, it took 9.5 minutes and the bitrate was 86Mbps, way too high for that file.

BTW, I am also curious why Handbrake has 2160p60 4K HEVC and 2160p60 4K AV1 but there is no 2160p60 4K AVC.

[codemaster]

Using Ultra Fast will result in larger file size than if using Slow, not in lower image quality. No 4K AVC preset because AVC is not efficient enough for 4K, but HEVC and AV1 are.

I use only presets "medium" and "slower" in x264, and only preset "medium" in the AVC hardware encoder.

[jagabo]

So does changing the Speed from say Ultra Fast to say Slow make any difference to the Video Quality

Yes, x264 quality improves a little with slower presets. More-so with birate based encoding, to a lesser extent with CRF encoding. With CRF encoding file size is largest with Ultrafast. SuperFast is significantly smaller. Veryfast is even smaller. Above that the file sizes are somewhat unpredictable. It usually increases a little until you get to Medium, then it starts getting a little smaller again. But the variation from Medium to Placebo is usually only 10 to 15 percent.

I am also curious why Handbrake has 2160p60 4K HEVC and 2160p60 4K AV1 but there is no 2160p60 4K AVC.

Because they can't have presets for everything. They just picked some of the most popular scenarios. You can modify them as you please.

As codemaster pointed out, many of advantages of HEVC are more applicable to larger frames sizes than AVC. Note that the target for the encoding generations was to achieve the same quality at half the bitrate of the preceding generation. AVC at half the bitrate of MPEG 4 Part 2 (eg, XVID, DIVX), HEVC at half the bitrate of AVC, AV1 at half the bitrate of HEVC. I think most people don't believe the fully achieved that.

[Bridgy]

Note that the target for the encoding generations was to achieve the same quality at half the bitrate of the preceding generation. AVC at half the bitrate of MPEG 4 Part 2 (eg, XVID, DIVX), HEVC at half the bitrate of AVC, AV1 at half the bitrate of HEVC. I think most people don't believe the fully achieved that.

50% lower bitrate for each preceding generation i also thought was not really true, maybe that is why the late Dan Rose told me that 35% was around the correct bitrate variation, at least for his implementation or Intelligent Recode in VRD, but now days i am not sure really if that figure would be right for x264/x265.

The only time that i need to recode to 4k AVC or even downscale them to 1080p AVC is for those who do not have support for 4k HEVC, say their TV is older etc.

Anyway, thanks for your help, and codemaster too, really appreciate this now that i decided to use Handbrake for all my future conversion needs.

I still never found out if Dan Rosen mover VRD over to use x264/x265 for encoding, or if he still used Mainconcept, is there a way to tell in MediaInfo if i run it over a VRD exported video file.

Using Ultra Fast will result in larger file size than if using Slow, not in lower image quality. No 4K AVC preset because AVC is not efficient enough for 4K, but HEVC and AV1 are.

Ok so there is only a difference in file size and not so much image quality when encoding at say fast or medium, which are the speeds that i have read about for x264 and x265 encoding.

I am still curious as to how efficient Hardware (QSV and NVENC) encoding is compared to x264/x265 encoding, and is there a time where one would not notice any visual difference to make it more worth while using Hardware encoding.

As a side note, i record all my 4k/60p video in HEVC at different bitrates depending on the camera that i use, the only camera that i have right now (sold all of my others to upgrade) is my spare S21 phone which records 4k/60p HEVC at 40Mbps, and AVC at 72Mbps, but my previous S23 that i just sold recorded 4k/60p HEVC at 40 and 80Mbps, and AVC at 72 and 144Mbps because that had the 2 options, and last night i finally bought my new S24 Ultra phone to replace the S23, but i am not sure what bitrates that will record at, and i am also buying a new GoPro 13 Black Action Camera next week for my travel related stuff, and possibly getting a new 4k or 6k bridge type camera for every day use, i need a camera that records good video and has amazing stabilization out of the box, and has a built in Lens with a very fast Auto Focus system.

[codemaster]

VideoReDo uses MainConcept and QuickSync encoders, and sets them by default to use "quality factor" which tries to match the quality of the input file.

VideoReDo can be activated manually at https://videoredo.online/ if online activation no longer works.

x264 and x265 have superior image quality than hardware encoders. When I want the best possible image quality, at the lowest possible file size, I use x264. When I want to edit and upload to youtube as fast as possible, I export AVC using hardware encoding.

[Bridgy]

VideoReDo uses MainConcept and QuickSync encoders, and sets them by default to use "quality factor" which tries to match the quality of the input file.

Ok so VRD still uses Mainconcept for software encoding, i thought so, Dan Rosen told me this a long time ago, but when i asked him why he didn't use x264 (x265 was not around then) he told me the licensing would have made VRD too expensive, because VRD is a commercial software, and the license fee had to be paid unless VRD was free.

VideoReDo can be activated manually at https://videoredo.online/ if online activation no longer works.

Yeah and that is sad for me because i paid a lot more for my Pro version, and the Pro activation works completely different than the non Pro, if the family of Dan Rosen does not continue to pay for the Pro activation server in the future, us Pro users are stuffed.

I think Dan Haddix has moved the non Pro activation stuff over to his own server (he worked for VRD)

x264 and x265 have superior image quality than hardware encoders. When I want the best possible image quality, at the lowest possible file size, I use x264. When I want to edit and upload to youtube as fast as possible, I export AVC using hardware encoding.

Why not use x265 (HEVC) as that would surely give far smaller file size with best quality, or are you referring to non 4k stuff, then i gather you don't do HEVC for that.

[codemaster]

I use x264 instead of x265 because I work with low resolutions and 8-bit source files, where HEVC is not more efficient than AVC. HEVC needs high resolution in order to be able to compress more than AVC can.

I tested SolveigMM Video Splitter. I used these input files:
- MP4 file, HEVC, 2160p, 30 fps
- MP4 file, AVC, 1080p, 30 fps
- VOB file, MPEG-2, 576i, 25 fps
- VRO file, MPEG-2, 576i, 25 fps

It could handle the 1080p AVC file. I trimmed it with markers. The output file is not damaged and VLC can play it.

The first frame in the output file, was the next frame after the marker. The last frame in the output file was the previous frame before the marker. It cuts accurately between keyframes, exports fast, and does stream copy instead of encoding.

It could not open the 4K HEVC file. It said "source file is not supported or damaged", but VLC can play this file.

It could not open the VOB and VRO files. It said "indexation failed", but VLC can play these files.

[Bridgy]

SolveigMM opened my 4k/60p HEVC files, but they would not play properly in the preview player and it was impossible to do cuts as the so called cutting tool could not seek properly (visions of VRD here) but it was ok with my 4k/60p AVC files, however i hate the way that the cutting tool works, it is very similar to many of these stand alone cutting tools, and i wish they did it like VRD or LosslessCut.

It doesn't matter how good a program is, if it can't open, or it can't deal with my HEVC files then i won't use it, and after testing at least 6 of these dedicated cutters, LosslessCut is the only one that not only imports my 4k/60p HEVC files, and others that i use, it plays them perfectly, and no lag in the cutting tool timeline, and cuts them and exports them without recoding perfectly, but as always, with the HEVC files (4k and 1080p) the cut at the start of each retained segment must be cut on a Keyframe, the end of each segment can be cut anywhere, and the files play back perfectly, and are fine to import to VRD for Titles if needed.

I wish VRD had completed support for the 4k/60p HEVC files but sadly they behave very similar to the way SolveigMM deals with them.

Why does the developer of LosslessCut say that his Smart Cut feature is only experimental, and i have seen comments like LosslessCut cannot cut between Keyframes.

With every file other than HEVC ones, i can cut between keyframes both at the start and end of each retained segment, the files play perfect, and import to VRD, the HEVC only works when the start is cut at a keyframe.

I know that the cuts made at keyframes work, but i still have not tested the precise accuracy of it's frame cutting between keyframes yet, for me i don't need the cuts to be 100% precise, a few frames out here and there is fine, so too is the keyframe cuts in my HEVC files, every 60 frames or 1 second has been fine for me so far.

I guess if i really had to be so precise and needed cuts made between keyframes on my 4k/60p HEVC files, i can use VRD, but the seeking in the timeline is just so slow and laggy, but hey, i'm retired so i have a lot of spare time on my hands.

[Bridgy]

These 2 Videos show LosslessCut and VRD Pro trimming out a 30 second 4k/60p HEVC File (41.9Mbps)

LosslessCut 4 cuts were made, start cuts on 3 retained segments were made on Keyframes only, end cuts were made between keyframes, the file exported at 42.2Mbps

This is a very impressive dedicated Cutting Tool, and it is the only tool of it's kind that i have tried that fully supports my 4k/60p HEVC files, they play perfectly in the preview player, and there is no lag when using to slider to select my cut points in the timeline.

As previously mentioned, for HEVC files to play without glitches, the start Cut on each retained segment must be made on a Keyframe, the enc Cut can be anywhere.

I wish this LosslessCut had a Batch tool like VRD has, just load up several jobs and export.

https://youtu.be/1MjH_AMSIPI

VRD Pro 3 cuts were made, start and end cuts were made randomly, not on keyframes, the file exported at 41.8Mbps

Note how laggy or jerky the preview player is, and also the lagging when using the slider in the timeline to select the Cut points.

In the video i move the screen recorder frame over to my Rainmeter to show you the CPU usage while the file is being Exported, it actually runs at 100% but the file is being exported in Fast Frame Copy mode, and the process hangs at 59% for a while before completing the task.

This file is not being recoded, it is just an issue with VRD not completing support for HEVC playback and cutting, or adding titles when needed, HEVC works fine for exports to other formats.

https://youtu.be/IDImEsBg8hs

[Bridgy]

This is not really related to the Thread Topic, however i just thought that i might throw this youtube video up in here showing the progress of a new 4 lane Bridge being built about 1km from my place.

Recorded on my S21-5G phone (standard model) in 4k/60p HEVC @ 41.5Mbps.

I took it into VRD Pro, cut a short bit from the end, i created a 7 second title, and i exported it to 1080/60p HEVC for Youtube, and they probably reconvert it again from that file, as i found in the video settings that it is available to watch in 1080/60p or 720/60p.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKPTsRsKblo

[Bridgy]

As i have previously mentioned, VRD Pro will not allow me to add Titles and/or Credits to my 4k/60p HEVC Files, but last night i was playing about with various options to get this to work, and i finally managed to do it, but using both VRD and LosslessCut together, and have posted the details below, along with 2 demo videos to show how i did it.

This method can only be done while ever i still have use of VRD Pro to create the titles and Smart Render (Match Source) back to original.

This Test was recorded in 2 parts to show the actual process.

Part 1: Imported my 4k/60p HEVC (41.7Mbps) Source file into LosslessCut, i cut a segment at the start and at the end, both cuts were made at keyframes just for this test, i then Smart Rendered the File to Same as Source, the file played perfectly.

Part 2: I loaded the Cut file into my VRD Pro Joiner list, i then imported a 7 second text Title that i had previously made, and i then exported the File using the Fast Frame Copy mode (Smart Render) so the video file was only recoded around the Title frames at the start.

The exported file with the Title actually worked, and the 1:46 minute (106 seconds) File exported in just 82 seconds.

This exact same process will not work if i cut my 4k/60p HEVC source file in VRD Pro exactly the same as i did in LosslessCut, then add my Title and export it, so i am a bit stumped why it works on the File when cut in LosslessCut, maybe it had something to do with the first Cut being made at a keyframe in LosslessCut, but VRD has never shown a preference to working better at keyframe cuts before, so it is just a bit baffling, but at least it works.

Source File = 3:11min 4k/60p HEVC @ 41.7Mbps @ 955MB file size.

Cut File from LosslessCut = 1:46min 4k/60p HEVC @ 41.7Mbps @ 528MB file size.

VRD Export with Title = 1:53min = 4k/60p HEVC @ 39.0Mbps @ 528MB file size.

In the second VRD video below, you will see some strange activity from VRD during the processing, normally when VRD adds Titles to say a 4k AVC file the Fast Frame Copy process takes a few seconds, but VRD seemed to be chopping between Fast Frame Copy mode and rendering modes, so the rendering modes must have been where VRD was rendering the 420 frames of the Title.

Anyway, the end result was that my exported file with the title came out the same as my source file, except for the final bitrate, which was indicated as being 39.0Mbps and the Source file was 41.7Mbps, this variation happens in VRD due to the Title frames being rendered (it was explained to me by Dan Rosen a few years ago)

Part 1 Video can be seen in the following link

https://youtu.be/IPOECeVOTG0

Part 2 Video can be seen in the following link

https://youtu.be/QF4GA_viXwQ

[Bridgy]

Ok guys, i recorded a Sample video just now with my Wife's new iPhone 16 (standard one) and i would hope that the camera in the 16 Pro Max is 50 times better than this one because it really looks bad even compared to my current S21-5G temporary phone that i use until my new S24 Ultra arrives next week.

The video is 2:20min duration, 4k/60p HEVC @ 58Mbps and a MOV container.

VRD hates it, i cannot do cuts, and it crashes on me, but maybe VRD has never supported Apple or MOV contained files, at least VRD will gruntily play my 4k/60p HEVC files, i can cut them very slowly, but the export usually fails, with MOV the VRD just crashes.

LosslessCut imports it, i can do Cuts on keyframes, and export as a merged file, but the first segment will play ok, but there is an issue at the cut points, and then the 2nd segment is very jerky like it is running at 15fps, so maybe LosslessCut does not like or support these MOV files either.

As an alternative option, i opened LosslessCut again and imported the MOV file, i cut a bit from the start, the middle, and the end, leaving me 2 segments totaling 1:41min duration that i wanted to retain, all cuts made on keyframes, i exported as 2 separate files rather than merge them.

I then imported both segments into VRD joiner list and i exported them using the usual Same as Source (Smart Render) option, but the joined file was fully Recoded and it ended up as the 4k/60p HEVC file, but it was re-packed into an MP4 container, obviously because VRD does not support MOV, and the Bitrate was only 41.5Mbps, not the 58.0Mbps that it was originally.

The Recode of the 1:42min merged export took about 8 minutes to run.

[hydra3333]

Is the recorded file VFR or CFR ? Not much likes editing VFR and who knows what they try to re-encode/stitch it into. I mucked around with some VFR phone content a few years ago and had no end of trouble unless I converted to CFR first which is a conversion/encoding of itself Same issue (VFR) with some home security system content as well.

IIRC, samsungs liked to record VFR by default but I know nothing about iThings.

Good luck.

[Marayong]

I've edited MOVs with VRD (non pro), so it is likely something unusual about the source. I just tested an iphone MOV, opened in VRD, edited & saved (as mp4). Worked fine and the video plays with no glitches. 1080p, not 4K. VRD couldn't save as mov, but I did remove a lot of unwanted export profiles from VRD, so that inability could just be my install and not VRD itself.

Anything moved from the apple ecosystem to windows has the potential for incompatibility issues - apple uses a lot of proprietary codecs etc not found on windows by default. I assume you have a codec pack installed on the computer? I've also edited samsung phone videos (including recent models) with VRD, no issues. But I have a codec pack installed.

An obvious option for the unfriendly MOVs is to convert to mp4/mkv using handbrake/ffmpeg/etc before doing any editing.

[codemaster]

You can remux mov to mp4, with LosslessCut, and then join the mp4 files with VideoReDo after adding titles and credits. This should copy, not encode. If it encodes, then it's probably because VideoReDo doesn't support variable framerate files.

Or you can join the mov files with LosslessCut, after creating titles and credits in a non-linear video editor. This will copy the mov files, not encode them. Only titles and credits will be encoded.

[Bridgy]

Is the recorded file VFR or CFR ? Not much likes editing VFR and who knows what they try to re-encode/stitch it into. I mucked around with some VFR phone content a few years ago and had no end of trouble unless I converted to CFR

The 4k/60p HEVC files recorded on the iPhone and Samsung phones are VFR, so too are the 4k/60p AVC videos from the Samsungs, and i don't have any issues adding Titles with those in VRD.

For codemaster and Marayong, the issue with the files from the iPhone is nothing for me to worry about as i don't ever get any files recorded on Apple devices, i just posted up the issues just to share my experience, but i will keep everything you guys mentioned in my head just in case.

LosslessCut has progressively become to be a real favorite of mine for Cutting and Smart Rendering my files rather than attempt to do it in VRD, so for me, VRD really is holding it's own for adding Titles and credits when needed, but because it uses Mainconcept for encoding, i will be using Handbrake from now on for my exports to other formats for my most important stuff, anything else such as Youtube etc, i would still throw them into VRD.

[Bridgy]

Hi everyone, going back to our conversations and my testing of Tipard Video Converter Ultimate, well i sent an Email to them some time ago regarding the lack of being able to test the so called 120x Faster Conversion (supposedly Lossless) in the 30 day trial mode, well yesterday i got an Email from them offering me a 30 Registration Code so that i can test this feature out myself, this was completely out of the blue as it has been a few weeks since i sent that email.

So at least we really know that this company is real, and that they really do seem to listen to people who may have issues or questions about their products (not that i doubted them as a legit company)


[Attachment 84759 - Click to enlarge]

I have just now re-installed Tipard and activated the Code that they gave me, so i will test the 120x Faster Conversion tool today and report back.

I have also sent them an email to ask what Encoder they are using, obviously it will not be the x264 or x265 encoders because they are selling Tipard as a commercial product and would need to pay license fees to use those 2 Encoders, just as VRD would have done.

I am guessing that Tipard may be using Mainconcept just as VRD does, but i shall wait and see.

[codemaster]

Tipard is a converter app, like Handbrake and Movavi Video Converter. It is not a stream copy app, like LosslessCut and VideoReDo. After VideoReDo expires, the only way to replicate it's titles and credits generator, is with NLE apps like Capcut, Shotcut, or Kdenlive.

[Bridgy]

Tipard is a converter app, like Handbrake and Movavi Video Converter. It is not a stream copy app, like LosslessCut and VideoReDo. After VideoReDo expires, the only way to replicate it's titles and credits generator, is with NLE apps like Capcut, Shotcut, or Kdenlive. It will require more work and more knowledge, but at least you can still do the same thing even after VideoReDo expired.

Yep i understand all that, but the whole point to me doing this Tipard stuff is to verify IF this software does or does not do Lossless Conversions as they claim it will by using the so called 120x Faster Conversion option that is only available in the full paid for version, which i can now test for the next 30 days.

So i will run thru 4 Tests that i just completed this morning using the 120x Faster Conversion option, and it gave me some rather strange results.

Test 1: Cutting a Segment from the Start and End, and Exporting as a Single File, Preset was Same as Source HEVC MP4.

Source File = 4k/60p HEVC @ 41.8Mbps

Exported File = 4k-60p HEVC @ 41.2Mbps

In this case i can confirm that the single Exported file was Not Recoded, and the Bitrate for the Exported File was almost the same as the Source File, so the 120x Faster Conversion (lossless) did seem to work in this case, as you can see in the video.

https://youtu.be/5XGfVkfrIOg


Test 2: Cutting 3 Segments and Merging them to a single File, Preset was Same as Source HEVC MP4.

Source File = 4k/60p HEVC @ 41.8Mbps

Exported Cut & Merged File = 4k/60p HEVC @ 74.5Mbps

In this case the single Exported file was fully Recoded at a much higher Bitrate, so the 120x Faster Conversion (lossless) did not work in this case.

https://youtu.be/wTmga2zZXJY


Test 3: Cutting 3 Segments but exporting them to 3 Single Files, Preset was Same as Source HEVC MP4.

Source File = 4k/60p HEVC @ 41.8Mbps

Part 1 = 4k-60p HEVC @ 42.2Mbps @ 60.0fps
Part 2 = 4k-60p HEVC @ 38.7Mbps @ 60.103fps
Part 3 = 4k-60p HEVC @ 41.2Mbps @ 59.874fps

In this case the 3 Exported files had a similar Bitrate to the Source File, BUT 2 of the 3 Exported Segments had different Frame Rates, so i am not sure if the 120x Faster Conversion (lossless) did or did not work in this case, mainly because of the 3 different FPS rates.

https://youtu.be/fPD2ilLNC0I


Test 4: Importing the 3 Cut Segments that were exported in Test 3 above, and Exported as a Single File, Preset was Same as Source HEVC MP4.

Source File = 4k/60p HEVC @ 41.8Mbps

Exported 3 Merged Files = 4k/60p HEVC @ 74.8Mbps

In this case the single Exported file was fully Recoded at a much higher Bitrate, and the 120x Faster Conversion (lossless) definitely did not work in this case.

https://youtu.be/NQVEYmaLWsE

EDIT: I can definitely confirm that Tipard DOES export to Same as Source using the 120x Faster Conversion option BUT only when cutting a part from the start and/or the end of the source file, as per Test 1 above, AND when exporting multiple cuts as separate files too, it Does Not work when cutting and Merging multiple segments together.

Just to verify, i imported a 4k/60p AVC (72Mbps) File and chopped the start and end off, and it exported in a few seconds, with barely any CPU usage, just as it did with the 4k/60p HEVC File in Test 1, and i then chopped that same AVC file into 3 parts and exported as separate Files, and that completed in a few seconds, with just a blink of CPU usage too.

The issue here is that when applying any of the other Edit features on offer, the File will always be Recoded, regardless what Export Preset you choose.

[codemaster]

The issue here is that when applying any of the other Edit features on offer, the File will always be Recoded, regardless what Export Preset you choose.

That's why the alternative to VideoReDo is not one app, but multiple apps, like for example: LosslessCut + Kdenlive + Handbrake. One app for cutting and joining, another for titles and credits, and another to encode titles and credits.

[Bridgy]

I have not tried Kdenlive that much, i hate the cutting tool, but i hated the cutting tool in Tipard too, until today when i finally got used to it, but still not as good as VRD and LosslessCut.

I must try Kdenlive for the Titles/Credits, i thought that it might do Overlay titles like in TMPGEnc Smart Renderer 6, which i don't ever want to do.