Enlarge then cropping capture video

[Jokris]

Hello, first of all I want to thank you all for this great community. I have learned so much regarding converting video from you all. Now to my problem

I use a Hauppage capture device together with AmarecTV to capture analog camcorder material. I then intend to use nnedi3 and upscale from 720 x 576 to 1140 x 1152

Example file before upscaling: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AjY8DD-m5hrZaTiKYrRSVX1_zPH03CLc/view?usp=drivesdk

But... if you look at the right side of my video you see a vertical flickering portion, which I want to crop.

Would it be better for me to upscale the video a bit more than I intend to, and then crop the video down to 1440 x 1152? And if so, what resolution should I upscale to and how much should I then crop afterwards in order to get rid of the flicker?

[Alwyn]

720x576 (1.25:1 or 5:4) isn't the "correct" frame size/ratio, it's only the capture frame size. The display size is 4:3, or 1.333 to 1, effectively 768x576. You can see what it should look like by opening in VLC Player and forcing a 4:3 display (or VDub, right-click on the video display and choose 4:3).

So, your upscale should be to 1440x1080.

Re your cropping, IMO there's no need to upscale above and then crop down: I would just crop in a 4:3 ratio (x4 off the sides, x3 off the top+bottom) then upscale to 1440x1080. The problem with cropping back down is you have to get it exact or you'll need to resize again.

BUT! Make sure you de-interlace first, before any cropping; if you crop before deinterlacing, you may mess up the field order and end up with jaggies on your Progressive encode.

FYI, I'd suggest capturing with the audio on PCM(WAV). That will yield the best audio quality. You can MP3 (or AAC) it later.

[Jokris]

Thanks for your detailed answer!

Do you suggest I crop first, then upscale? Or upscale to 11440x1080, then crop, and finally upscale again?

[Alwyn]

Crop then upscale.

[dellsam34]

I'm assuming the source is an analog tape, So the legal resolution is 702 to 704 by 576, You first de-interlace, then crop and then resize, Your frame needed cropping 2 lines each from top and bottom, 4 pixels from the left and 16 pixels from the right which is within the legal aspect ratio, Here is what it would look like:

[Sharc]

I'm assuming the source is an analog tape, So the legal resolution is 702 to 704 by 576, You first de-interlace, then crop and then resize, Your frame needed cropping 2 lines each from top and bottom, 4 pixels from the left and 16 pixels from the right which is within the legal aspect ratio

+1, exactly for this analog tape capture.

[Jokris]

I see. As of now I have deinterlaced and upscaled in Hybrid to 1440x1152 in 8000 kbps, reducing their file size from about 25GB to 3GB

But what I should do is:
1. Deinterlace in Hybrid, no upscaling, in 8000 kbps (thus reducing the file size)
2. Crop image to 4:3
3. Upscale in Hybrid to 1440x1080 with nnedi3 in a higher bitrate?

[dellsam34]

You do all those before compression or encoding otherwise you will be losing quality every time you do a step.

[Alwyn]

@Jokris, what's your exact workflow? Are you cropping in Hybrid too? If cropping externally, export out of Hybrid after deinterlacing in a lossless codec such as HUFF, UT or FFV1 (can't remember exactly what lossless AVI options are any more). Then crop and export/save as.

Otherwise, you should be able to do the whole lot in Hybrid as it does have a cropping function (not that I know how to use it). So, Deinterlace, crop, resize then export/save as.

@Dellsam, you need to take another couple of pixels off the bottom there.

[Jokris]

Hi Alwyn

My workflow now is to both deinterlace and upscale in nnedi3 Hybrid at the same time (in 8000 kbps) in Hybrid, outputting a deinterlaced file with higher resolution but much smaller file size.

I don't know what possible setting to use if I want to only deinterlace in Hybrid, without compressing the file size?

Cropping I intend to do in VirtualDub
And after cropping then upscale with nnedi3 in Hybrid I guess?

[Alwyn]

I don't know what possible setting to use if I want to only deinterlace in Hybrid, without compressing the file size?

After your deinterlacing, you "save as" with one of the lossless AVI codecs. You don't set the bitrate for those; it's fixed.

Then import that AVI file into VDub, crop and export out as AVI again, then upscale in Hybrid and finally export into MP4 eg H264 codec.

But as I say, see if you can do it all in Hybrid. That will save a lot of fiddling around going out and back to Hybrid.

I used to use a similar workflow, where I would use QTGMC in Hybrid to deinterlace, then export that into AVI for VDub. But then I stay in VDub for the cropping and resizing and finally MP4 export. I now just use AVISynth into VDub to avoid double-handling.

Hybrid though does have other features, such as noise reduction, which you may find useful if you don't get into AVISynth.

[Sharc]

Why the heck so complicated? Once you are in Hybrid one can do cropping, correct resizing and upscaling, denoising etc. all in the same tool.
But yes, to each his own.

[Alwyn]

Why the heck so complicated?

If that's directed at me, read my posts again.

[Sharc]

Why the heck so complicated?

If that's directed at me, read my posts again.

Directed to anyone jumping unnecessarily (possibly damaging the video) from tool to tool, back and forth

[Jokris]

Why the heck so complicated?

If that's directed at me, read my posts again.

Directed to anyone jumping unnecessarily (possibly damaging the video) from tool to tool, back and forth

Such as myself
Lack of experience I guess, but I will make a try to do everything in Hybrid

[Sharc]

Why the heck so complicated?

If that's directed at me, read my posts again.

Directed to anyone jumping unnecessarily (possibly damaging the video) from tool to tool, back and forth

Such as myself
Lack of experience I guess, but I will make a try to do everything in Hybrid

Good investment of your time, same with learning Avisynth basics

[Sharc]

I will make a try to do everything in Hybrid

In case it helps with your source here a proposal for the settings in Hybrid for
- cropping + resizing to square pixels 1440x1080
- deinterlacing with QTGMC

Edit: and you don't need to worry about the order of the steps. Hybrid takes care of it.

[dellsam34]

Order matters, He could reverse the field order if he doesn't de-interlace first. Also you can't crop after resize, the resolution will not be legal.

[Sharc]

Order matters, He could reverse the field order if he doesn't de-interlace first. Also you can't crop after resize, the resolution will not be legal.

Yes, order matters definitely. What I am saying is that Hybrid takes care of applying the filtering order correctly by default - unless one intentionally wants to customize it for some reason. Filter order customization is also supported by Hybrid. It's not an easy tool for rookies - I agree. It does and "adjusts" many things automatically correct though, and one can inspect the Avisynth or Vapoursynth script which it creates.
It may fail when it gets wrong info from wrongly flagged sources for example, which may require manual interaction to set it right. Like in the OPs example where the Lagarith codec (or Huffy) doesn't flag the field order and Hybrid defaults to BFF.
A handy feature is that it installs many Avisynth and Vapoursynth filters and one doesn't have to care about dependencies (like those of QTGMC for example) to make it work.

[Jokris]

Hello agai, I tried doing everything (TFF deinterlacing, cropping, upscaling) in Hybrid this time using these settings:


[Attachment 83195 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 83196 - Click to enlarge]

Before:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dj6wIrx3nhgzzLaUOc2dyXjlALi_Gvlh/view?usp=sharing

After:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aP-Hx4u6g7urPxIRF_V72nrbN5jQPMy_/view?usp=sharing

Is it only me or is the edited file more shaky and border of vertical objects "jump" more when panning?

[Alwyn]

You've got the field order around the wrong way. If you open the "after" file in VDub and step through each frame, you'll see it jumping forward then back then forward.

I'd recommend AAC for audio; PCM might not play in some players. "MOV" may also be problematic. I'd suggest MP4 as the wrapper.

Apart from those issues, it looks good to me.

[Alwyn]

Something odd going on here. The "before" file is bottom field first, but it's an analogue capture, so it would normally be TFF. Open in VDub, apply the Deinterlace filter (YADIF and Double Frame Rate) and choose TFF or BFF to work out the field order.

[Sharc]

Something odd going on here. ....

The currently uploaded file 'Hybrid-before.avi' is BFF (bottom field first). There has been some previous file 'test file.avi' (or maybe I picked the wrong file) which was TFF.
The Lagarith codec doesn't flag the field order, so one has to set it manually.
For the current 'Hybrid-before.avi':

(on a sidenote: it's quite exceptional that PAL video is BFF)

[Jokris]

Thanks for your help and patience!

I will try again, hopefully get it right this time

[Alwyn]

The currently uploaded file 'Hybrid-before.avi' is BFF (bottom field first).

Yes, I did say that in the very next sentence.

The Lagarith codec doesn't flag the field order, so one has to set it manually.

None of the common analogue AVIs flag the field order.

[Sharc]

None of the common analogue AVIs flag the field order.

There are no 'analogue AVIs'. But I guess I understand what you are trying to communicate .....