WHICH TBC on ebay would be a good one?

[snafoo]

I know it is paramount to have a TBC in order to get a really good capture.Which TBC would be a good one to buy from ebay? I know it should be a Frame TBC and not a Line TBC. Everyone knows the issue with a quality Frame TBC. It is THE PRICE! It is going to cost and arm and a leg, especially the Datavideo brand ones. I have seen the Datavideo TBC-1000 on ebay for $1,500. I don't have the dough for one of those. I do have the dough for a cheaper one. Would anyone out there recommend a mid-price range Frame (compared to the Datavideo ones) TBC that would help me produce quality captures? I'd appreciate it! Does a S-VHS VCR (JVC, Panasonic) provide a Frame TBC, or is it a Line TBC? I am all ears for any suggestions!

Thank you!

[dellsam34]

It is more important to get a decent VCR first, Frame TBC is not going to change the visual quality if you have a low end VCR, Once you have a good working VCR and stable capture card then try capturing you may get away with not having a frame TBC if your tapes are in good condition.

[snafoo]

It is more important to get a decent VCR first, Frame TBC is not going to change the visual quality if you have a low end VCR, Once you have a good working VCR and stable capture card then try capturing you may get away with not having a frame TBC if your tapes are in good condition.

I assume a JVC or Panasonic S-VHS VCR is the obvious one to get, correct? I have a Panasonic VHS/DVD Recorder unit (DMR-ES48V). I also have an Elgato video capture device. My tapes play beautifully in this VCR, but they are 40 year old tapes. I guess the JVC/Panasonic S-VHS route would would play them even better, eh? I also assume that an IOData GV-USB2 would be a better video capture device, as that captures at 720x480, where the Elgato only captures at 640x480, right?

[Alwyn]

where the Elgato only captures at 640x480, right?

Not right. Ticking "preserve source format" will allegedly give you the native frame size (720x480), but that's in the Elgato capture software (not desirable because it captures straight into MP4). Try a lossless capture with VDub or AmarecTV and see what frame size is available. My AmarecTV capture guide here.

I have an EZ-48V. Great machine, although mine is PAL. Mine was brand new when I acquired it a couple of years ago. At this point in the cycle, head condition matters. I have a JVC S-VHS VCR and it's picture is not overly marvellous compared to the 48. The advantage of the 48 is it has the Panny Diga stabilisation system, similar to the ES-15 (poor man's line TBC). If you have a stable picture, straight vertical edges, especially on the right side, and you're in-sync, you're home and hosed.

My tapes play beautifully in this VCR

If you're game, do a short lossless capture (15-30 seconds, max 500mb) and attach it here. The experts can critique the quality so you can make a decision on spending more $$$$.

[dellsam34]

If the DMR-ES48V has HDMI out try it in the 480i mode, You may find the internal analog to digital chip inside the player better than anything you've tried before, The catch is to get a good HDMI capture card that doesn't butcher the 480i output from the player.

[snafoo]

where the Elgato only captures at 640x480, right?

Not right. Ticking "preserve source format" will allegedly give you the native frame size (720x480), but that's in the Elgato capture software (not desirable because it captures straight into MP4). Try a lossless capture with VDub or AmarecTV and see what frame size is available. My AmarecTV capture guide here.

I have an EZ-48V. Great machine, although mine is PAL. Mine was brand new when I acquired it a couple of years ago. At this point in the cycle, head condition matters. I have a JVC S-VHS VCR and it's picture is not overly marvellous compared to the 48. The advantage of the 48 is it has the Panny Diga stabilisation system, similar to the ES-15 (poor man's line TBC). If you have a stable picture, straight vertical edges, especially on the right side, and you're in-sync, you're home and hosed.

My tapes play beautifully in this VCR

If you're game, do a short lossless capture (15-30 seconds, max 500mb) and attach it here. The experts can critique the quality so you can make a decision on spending more $$$$.

I made the capture. it has graininess to it. this VCR plays better than my Sharp that i've been using. Let me know how i can do better. I captured with Virtualdub 2.

[Sharc]

Crushed darks. First set the levels right by adjusting the proc-amp settings of your capture device.
(Why did you capture into RGB? Use YUV instead.)

Just trying to "fix" it in post processing something like this may improve it a bit.

AVISource("rolling stones capture sample.avi")
ConverttoYV12(interlaced=true)
assumeTFF()
levels(16,1.6,215,16,235,coring=false)
QTGMC(preset="fast")
SMdegrain()

[snafoo]

Crushed darks. First set the levels right by adjusting the proc-amp settings of your capture device.
(Why did you capture into RGB? Use YUV instead.)

Just trying to "fix" it in post processing something like this may improve it a bit.

AVISource("rolling stones capture sample.avi")
ConverttoYV12(interlaced=true)
assumeTFF()
levels(16,1.6,215,16,235,coring=false)
QTGMC(preset="fast")
SMdegrain()

hi. In the capture pin section of virtualdub, i tried to switch capturing to YUV but it wouldn't let me. Only option is to capture to UYVY. Do i input the Code stuff into Virtualdub?

[Sharc]

Crushed darks. First set the levels right by adjusting the proc-amp settings of your capture device.
(Why did you capture into RGB? Use YUV instead.)

Just trying to "fix" it in post processing something like this may improve it a bit.

AVISource("rolling stones capture sample.avi")
ConverttoYV12(interlaced=true)
assumeTFF()
levels(16,1.6,215,16,235,coring=false)
QTGMC(preset="fast")
SMdegrain()

hi. In the capture pin section of virtualdub, i tried to switch capturing to YUV but it wouldn't let me. Only option is to capture to UYVY. Do i input the Code stuff into Virtualdub?

Sorry, may bad. Your capture is in YUV (UYVY). Never mind.

[lordsmurf]

If the DMR-ES48V has HDMI out try it in the 480i mode, You may find the internal analog to digital chip inside the player better than anything you've tried before, The catch is to get a good HDMI capture card that doesn't butcher the 480i output from the player.

Most of the "combo" VCR/DVD units internally composite down the source, regardless of s-video/HDMI/etc output. So quality is obliterated the moment that it plays the tape.

NTSC HDMI output is also always processed (wrong rec601/709, deinterlaced, etc). Messy.

It's not at all a quality S-VHS VCR with line TBC.

I assume a JVC or Panasonic S-VHS VCR is the obvious one to get, correct?

Correct. And JVC should be your first S-VHS VCR.

This thread is starting to get sidetracked by the silly cheapskate mentality. Don't give into that. Cheapskates mostly just screw around, and nothing is actually improving. You had the right idea when you started this thread.

I also have an Elgato video capture device.

Terrible device, replace it as well.

I know it is paramount to have a TBC in order to get a really good capture.

Correct.

Which TBC would be a good one to buy from ebay? Everyone knows the issue with a quality Frame TBC. It is THE PRICE! It is going to cost and arm and a leg, especially the Datavideo brand ones. I have seen the Datavideo TBC-1000 on ebay for $1,500.

eBay is 99%+ resellers now, and they wouldn't a TBC from a toaster. Most of those devices are in various states of failure, but the moron sellers have no idea. All they see is a black box of gold, without any care for true functionality. Newbies gets suckered into bad buys -- or worse, created myths about TBCs "not working" or "reducing quality" because they bought a malfunctioning POS without realizing it. eBay has become a source of TBC issues, including a source of FUD and BS.

I don't have the dough for one of those. I do have the dough for a cheaper one. Would anyone out there recommend a mid-price range Frame (compared to the Datavideo ones) TBC that would help me produce quality captures? I'd appreciate it! Does a S-VHS VCR (JVC, Panasonic) provide a Frame TBC, or is it a Line TBC? I am all ears for any suggestions!

S-VHS VCRs can have line TBCs, not frame.

You really have two choices here:
- cheapest: non-TBC JVC S-VHS, combined with an ES10/15,
- better (though maybe worse): JVC S-VHS with TBC, ES10/15 purely for the non-TBC frame sync. Now, it depends on your tapes. The ES10/15 line TBC cannot be turned off for passthrough, and sometimes the JVC TBC collides with it. But that JVC TBC can correct better.

The signal quality is harmed by the ES10/15, it's not transparent. More ideal is that $1500+ of gear.

There's a 3rd method, and better than the above. It's the JVC TBC VCR + a weaker frame TBC (DVK, etc). But there's really none available that I can see right now. Those units have been disappearing for a few years now. You wouldn't want to buy from eBay anyway, as those often need modding (that cannot be instructed to the uninformed/newbies, due to variables that require TBC experience/knowledge)

Once you have a good working VCR and stable capture card then try capturing you may get away with not having a frame TBC if your tapes are in good condition.

This almost never happens.

To keep it simple (KISS) for newbies, line-timed output is just the X*Y axis, what you see onscreen. Frame is more temporal, the Z axis. Line cleans the image, frame cleans the signal. You need both. Some sort of frame timing is 100% required.

What is true is that good non-TBC frame syncs, combined with strong line TBC, can sometimes half-ass work, and give passable results. That's the ES10/15 type TBC(ish) method. While not ideal, it's a method for lower-end transfers (DIY'er at home, just a few tapes, doesn't want to spend a lot). It's viable to a point. Quality isn't perfect, but passable, you can do far worse.

[Alwyn]

You can set the "levels" ie the Brightness and Contrast using the histogram in VDub. I have written a guide here.

That code is for AVISynth.