Which VCR for PAL VHS capture (Composite and/or DdD/MISRC)

[lollo]

No.

Yes. I am referring to "solid" models with TBC features. You are talking about larger range of devices, something different.

Picture quality also varies quite a bit between certain deck lines.

Of course, but not significantly about the models I mentioned.

I can only guess you've not used many units, as some of what you state here is just false.

That's your (false) theory, as usual. You do not know what you dont know (me in this case). And nothing I wrote is false.

There's also stability, TBC strength, audio, etc, to consider. Nothing is "the same" (across all decks), there is no single "best" model (out of these good with-TBC JVC models).

Of course there is not single best model, largely depends on the tapes. That's why we have several descks for different cases. We are talking here about specific models, but as usual you add your blah blah to put smoke in the eyes of the readers with useless (in this contest) technicalities

The 2nd gen isn't large, really a transition period, and 9500 exists there.

Not bad at all, just not suggested. Image quality (which is good) isn't the only reason.

Are you serious? You said I did not read correctly the (false) staement in DigitalFAQ. Now you say the 9500 is not suggested?

In any case, explain and show why and how the S9500 is not good with real facts and capture samples highlighting the (immaginary) defects, rather than usual blah blah blah.
In the meantime you can look to the "image quality" and "stability, TBC strength, audio, etc," (as you wrote) of my captures.
Then we'll compare.

[lollo]

That J672 image is not good. It has really aggressive false (over)sharpening. Look at the hard black line on the left side (from our perspective) of the child seat. The world doesn't have black crayon outlines on everything. If you want to sharpen, do it better in Avisynth from the original unmolested video.

VCR sharpening apart, the J672 image has more details. No sharpening in AviSynth can bring back details that are missing.

[Sharc]

That J672 image is not good. It has really aggressive false (over)sharpening. Look at the hard black line on the left side (from our perspective) of the child seat. The world doesn't have black crayon outlines on everything. If you want to sharpen, do it better in Avisynth from the original unmolested video.

VCR sharpening apart, the J672 image has more details. No sharpening in AviSynth can bring back details that are missing.

Sharpness apart, it looks to me that the details are mainly lost in the brights. Was there a problems with the levels? The colors are also distorted. Snippets of the captured .avi could probably tell more ...

[lollo]

Sharpness apart, it looks to me that the details are mainly lost in the brights. Was there a problems with the levels? The colors are also distorted. Snippets of the captured .avi could probably tell more ...

In white areas yes, but the missing details are in the darker range (the small dark dots between the white matrix of the sweater).

Yes, it would be interesting to see a sample of the untouched captures.

[oln]

Then I read that the "JVC HR-S9500" is at the top, and yes, definitely get one. Other opinions are that they are clearly overrated, they like to eat the tapes and as they are so overhyped all the units you find on the second hand market had been already sold 10 times.

Well, as you can see, there is no absolute truth.
I wrote such a post on digitalfaq today.

After playing a few tapes I noticed what you can see in the screenshots below. Why is the image from JVC J672 (composite output) so good compared to Philips VR1100 (JVC S7600)?
J672 in Edit mode, S7600 (svideo) does not have such a setting, so I can only turn off 3DNR.
(B.E.S.T turned on on both machines)

https://imgsli.com/MzA3NzAy

The VR1100 has an edit setting, you have to use the smart picture button on the remote and and set it to "distinct". It's one of the differences between the Philips variant and the JVC versions where it's set in the menu. Once you do that the output will probably be very similar since they use the same mechanism 95% the same parts ICs as they are from the same generation, the philips (JVC) just has the SVHS and 3D DNR ICs tacked on + an added tape stabilizer thingy on the mechanism and maybe slightly differend head drum. The difference will mainly be in the 3D DNR/TBC function and S-video vs composite. (Provided neither of them suffer from issues with dropout masking like my VR1100 and HR-J681 do.)

I don't know for sure if it's true on all of the digipure TBC-equipped JVCs but at least on my S8600 the luma part of the 3D DNR is always active to some degree even when the TBC is turned off which can result in some ghosting - so if not using the TBC I prever to use a variant without TBC/DNR to avoid that.

(The VR1100 is closer to the JVC HR-S77xx / HR-S78xx models, It's the VR1000 that's the analogue to the HR-S7600).


The difference between EG/EK/E_ etc models are only non-relevant country-specific stuff like tuner/modulator as far as I know. MS/ME variants are different though since they are secam or multi-standard. There are also both made in EU and made in Japan variants of some models but idk if either is preferable to the other.

As for the 1998 models, the PAL HR-S8500 and 9500 are basically going to be the same for capture, only difference is in edit features, while the simpler PAL HR-S7500 does not feature the TBC/DNR function but also doesn't have the failure-prone dynamic drum. Annoyingly unlike in the later lineups the non-SVHS models in this and earlier lineups does not feature EDIT mode.

[rgr]

The VR1100 has an edit setting, you have to use the smart picture button on the remote and and set it to "distinct". It's one of the differences between the Philips variant and the JVC versions where it's set in the menu.

Thanks for the info. I haven't even read the instructions yet. Unfortunately, I have a universal remote for a Philips VCR's and there is no equivalent to this button, and from the OSD I see that the default is AUTO.

Once you do that the output will probably be very similar since they use the same mechanism 95% the same parts ICs as they are from the same generation, the philips (JVC) just has the SVHS and 3D DNR ICs tacked on + an added tape stabilizer thingy on the mechanism and maybe slightly differend head drum. The difference will mainly be in the 3D DNR/TBC function and S-video vs composite. (Provided neither of them suffer from issues with dropout masking like my VR1100 and HR-J681 do.)

I see we have (almost) an identical set.

I don't know for sure if it's true on all of the digipure TBC-equipped JVCs but at least on my S8600 the luma part of the 3D DNR is always active to some degree even when the TBC is turned off which can result in some ghosting - so if not using the TBC I prever to use a variant without TBC/DNR to avoid that.

(The VR1100 is closer to the JVC HR-S77xx / HR-S78xx models, It's the VR1000 that's the analogue to the HR-S7600).

Valuable information. Thanks.

[lollo]

I don't know for sure if it's true on all of the digipure TBC-equipped JVCs but at least on my S8600 the luma part of the 3D DNR is always active to some degree even when the TBC is turned off which can result in some ghosting - so if not using the TBC I prever to use a variant without TBC/DNR to avoid that.

Yes, we discussed about it some time ago: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/401232-JVC-S-VHS-settings-for-capture-%28again%29

Other interesting thread: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/395451-Chroma-mess

And thanks for you valuable information, as always

[Sharc]

Sharpness apart, it looks to me that the details are mainly lost in the brights. Was there a problems with the levels? The colors are also distorted. Snippets of the captured .avi could probably tell more ...

In white areas yes, but the missing details are in the darker range (the small dark dots between the white matrix of the sweater).

The luma of the Philips is clipped on the whites. One cannot expect details/fine structures there. (The j672 is not clipped).

[Attachment 82865 - Click to enlarge]

[rgr]

This would explain why there is no overexposure in the upper left corner.

Nevertheless, I checked it on another video:
https://pasteboard.co/WxDLQ37d1PkA.png
https://pasteboard.co/awmnMZeQqJMm.png

or:

https://pasteboard.co/TAlT9rkTxywu.png
https://pasteboard.co/x7cliVY4oqDD.png

[lollo]

rgr, I understand that probably because privacy you cannot provide a video sample to better analyze the case, but on my side is difficult to conclude. Maybe Sharc may have found a good explanation about the reason of a less detailed capture. Difficult to say more.