Issues with horizontal lines and flickering

[WalterR]

Hello!

I'm trying to capture a few old PAL VHS tapes with a Panasonic NV-FS200, but I've encountered some issues. First I used a Diamond VC500 which worked fine, but on one tape there was some severe flickering in a few parts. Since it was not happening when watching on TV I decided to get a I-O Data GV USB2 hoping it could handle this tape. And it did, the flickering is not entirely gone, but way better and watchable. Unfortunately with this capture device I now have horizontal green and redish lines in every VHS tape I tried, very old and newer ones. It's better after converting and deinterlacing, but still visible.

I did some googling and read about hanover bars and how to remove or mitigate it (not yet enough to understand how to do it), but since this is happening on every tape and with the same intensity I am wondering if this could be a hardware issue. Switching TBC on or off doesn't change anything and neither does switching the S-Video cable or using a Scart to S-Video Output adapter instead of the normal S-Video out on my VCR. Again, when watching on TV or using the VC500 this issue is not visible at all.

(raw)

[Attachment 81638 - Click to enlarge]

(converted)

[Attachment 81640 - Click to enlarge]

(VC500)

[Attachment 81642 - Click to enlarge]

Not sure how to go from here. Appreciate any help.

Thanks!

[Alwyn]

Easy fix, you need a external stabiliser/TBC of some description. At the cheaper end of the scale, the Panasonic "Diga" DVD recorders will stabilise that video so there will be no jumps and flashes. I've put some examples on my website here. I suspect it would probably clear up those colour errors too.

Well done on the simultaneous TV display.

[WalterR]

Easy fix, you need a external stabiliser/TBC of some description. At the cheaper end of the scale, the Panasonic "Diga" DVD recorders will stabilise that video so there will be no jumps and flashes. I've put some examples on my website here. I suspect it would probably clear up those colour errors too.

Well done on the simultaneous TV display.

Thanks a lot for your reply!

I looked a bit for those models from your website, but only found a E55 for about 20$ in my area. At least according to your video it seems to be performing noticeably worse than the others, but I don't really want to have those old things shipped from other countries. So not sure if that would do. I also found a Panasonic DMR EH52 for about 60$ if that's any better. It seems to have a TBC, but not sure how good it is.

Also I thought about the easiest and cheapest way to go would be to just record my Problem-VHS in 3 parts. First and third part which have no flicker problems with my VC500 and the middle part with the GV-USB2 and somehow stitch those files together as lossless as possible.

Lastly, just out of curiosity. What could be the technical reason for those chroma lines only to appear on the GV-USB2 on every single tape, but not at all on the VC500 or my TV?

[jagabo]

Try:

SeparateFields()
Blur(0.0, 1.0)
Sharpen(0.0, 0.6)
Weave()

Note: that needs to be done at the original frame size (720x576), not your upscaled size.

[Alwyn]

somehow stitch those files together as lossless as possible.

If Jagabo's option isn't for you, you can use Virtual Dub to append files together.

I'm not familiar with those particular recorders; I suggest you make a post with the model number in the title so someone will notice it. You should then get some feedback.

Lastly, just out of curiosity. What could be the technical reason for those chroma lines only to appear on the GV-USB2 on every single tape, but not at all on the VC500 or my TV?

Dunno! A quirk of nature? All these gadgets are different.

[WalterR]

I'm not familiar with those particular recorders; I suggest you make a post with the model number in the title so someone will notice it. You should then get some feedback.

I found out that the EH52 should technically be the same as the ES10, just with an HDD added. So that might be an option.

I managed to get started with AviSynth thanks to your website and indeed with Jagabo's script (thanks!) seems to get rid of those lines. I also tried your QTGMC example and while it gets rid of those lines it introduces some red and green flickering on the top. Alternates with every frame:


[Attachment 81678 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 81679 - Click to enlarge]

This whole thing is quite the rabbit hole. I also realized that the GV-USB2 footage seems to be a bit wobbly. The straight doorframe next to the lamp in this picture is more not as straight as in the VC500 footage. So another thing to consider

I tend to give t he EH52 a try and hope it gets rid of the flickering so I can capture it with the VC500. Otherwise I think I'm gonna do the stitching stuff. It's easy for me to be caught up in perfectionism, but it really doesn't have to be nor could I do it anyway.

[Alwyn]

Yes, give the EH52 a go. All my digitisers (GV, Live2, 710, VGB-100, Startech) benefit from having stabilisation (I use an ES-15). It should smarten up the capture file for QTGMC as well.

[WalterR]

Yes, give the EH52 a go. All my digitisers (GV, Live2, 710, VGB-100, Startech) benefit from having stabilisation (I use an ES-15). It should smarten up the capture file for QTGMC as well.

Today I got the EH52 and it seems to clean it up very well and I also don't had any sync issues during my short test capture. The lines are still there on the GV2, but since the flickering is gone I can use the VC500 for the whole tape. The bad news is that the EH52 doesn't react at all to the remote control or the Harmony Hub I use. So if there are any settings I need to adjust to get it right I can't really access them. It's weird, because the Panasonic works fine otherwise and it actually was a original sealed one. Not sure if somehow the IR-receiver is broken or if its something else.

Also, do I need to have the TBC on my NV-FS200 disabled when using the EH52 or can they work together?

[Alwyn]

Good oh! Interesting about the GV.

Even late model Panasonic remotes work on my ES-15 so I would suspect that they would work with your EH-52. You should be able to pick one up pretty cheaply.

If you're using the EH-52, switch the VCR TBC off.

[jwillis84]

Sounds like your Panasonic is set for Remote 2 or Remote 3 and needs to be set back to Remote 1. I would consult the User manual. It happened to me all the time working with a lot of Panasonics, even fresh out of the box they might be setup to respond to a different Remote 1,2 or 3. - It was not an uncommon thing.

[WalterR]

Thanks for the tip. I found one for 9€ on amazon, delivery on thursday. Since my Harmony Hub/Remote doesn't work either I feel like it's the IR receiver inside, but we will see.

According to your guide there doesn't seem to much to be done in terms of settings anyway. It looks like the settings are correct by default, at least the output I got looks fine to my eye.

Sounds like your Panasonic is set for Remote 2 or Remote 3 and needs to be set back to Remote 1. I would consult the User manual. It happened to me all the time working with a lot of Panasonics, even fresh out of the box they might be setup to respond to a different Remote 1,2 or 3. - It was not an uncommon thing.

Thanks, but I tried that already. It should be enter + 1/2/3 for >2 seconds, but had no effect here. I think the Panasonic also should show a message on the display when a wrong code is used, right? There is no indication that he gets any signal that I can see.