Looking for VHS capture advice, evaluations and helpful opinions

[916Area52]

Good day/evening,

Roy here,

First time poster, long time lurker…

I’m relatively new to this hobby, and don’t seem to have an eye for detail (yet). Looking for VHS capture advice, evaluations and helpful opinions.

My hardware workflow:

JVC HR-S7800U (purchased though LS)
I-O Data GVUSB2 (opinions welcomed, has been suggested that I upgrade)
Asus H110M-C motherboard (1151 socket)
Intel Core 17-7700K Processor
32G DDR4 2133
Kingston 240GB SSD (Win 10 Pro x64 22H2 operating system)
Seagate BarraCuda 2TB HDD – 3.5 Inch SATA 6Gb/s 7200 RPM (storage/staging and or transfer)
500-watt power supply

My software workflow:

AmaRecTV 3.10 w/HuffYUV 2.1.1 (AVI capture, has no sync issues that I can see)
Handbrake 1.8.2 (AVI to mp4 convert, a work in progress, sync issues)
VLC (AVI to mp4 convert, a work in progress, sync issues)

Attached:
AmaRecTV Avi clip
Handbrake conversion Mp4 clip
AmaRecTv screenshot settings
I-O Data GVUSB2 screenshot settings
HandBrake screenshot settings

Thank you for your consideration,
Roy

[lollo]

Attached:
AmaRecTV Avi clip

Before going further, where is the head switching noise?

[916Area52]

Attached:
AmaRecTV Avi clip

Before going further, where is the head switching noise?

Not familiar with that term "where is the head switching noise". Please explain... The audio comes from the VCR through the GVUSB , if I understand the question.

[dellsam34]

He may have crop enabled in the capture software.

[916Area52]

Attached:
AmaRecTV Avi clip

Before going further, where is the head switching noise?

Not familiar with that term "where is the head switching noise". Please explain... The audio comes from the VCR through the GVUSB , if I understand the question.

Not seeing any "head switching noise" as described here http://www.avartifactatlas.com/artifacts/head_switching_noise.html

[916Area52]

He may have crop enabled in the capture software.

Not that I'm aware of.

[Alwyn]

@916Area52, well done on a comprehensive post. Hopefully, we'll be able to help you out.

@Dellsam, here, AmarectV is set to not crop.

@Lollo, what's this then?


[Attachment 81548 - Click to enlarge]

[916Area52]

@916Area52, well done on a comprehensive post. Hopefully, we'll be able to help you out.

@Dellsam, here, AmarectV is set to not crop.

@Lollo, what's this then?


[Attachment 81548 - Click to enlarge]

Alwyn, Thank you

[Alwyn]

@916, the AVI sample you gave us looks like it has been snipped by VLC Player (MediaInfo shows). Could you crank up AVIDemux and do a snippet with that; then we'll get a true copy of your capture. Snippet instructions on my site here. Basically, open your capture file, leave video and audio both on Copy, set the Output format to AVI Muxer and set up a small snip (15 seconds for AVI) of an area with movement with the A and B buttons and then save and attach here. Max attachment is 500mb.

That should satisfy Lollo.

From what I can see so far, the AVI video is ~4 frames slow on the audio, but that could be from the VLC Player re-encode.

Also, your MP4 encode is showing 3:2, when I think it should be 4:3. AVI capture files don't have the display aspect ratio stored in them so apps just use 720-480, which is incorrect. We can deal with that later.

[Sharc]

@916Area52:
The capture looks ok. The .avi is 2-3 telecined.
The Handbrake MP4 is flawed. You should IVTC (Inverse telecine) your captured .avi, and then you will get the original 23.976fps progressive film frames.

Edit: IVTC is called 'Detelecine' in Handbrake. So set it to 'Default' rather than 'Off' (your screenhot#15) and see what you get. (I didn't try as I usually use Avisynth for video processing).

Or if you don't get along with Handbrake try this ffmpeg commandline:

ffmpeg -y -i "your.avi" -c:a aac -c:v libx264 -preset slow -crf 18 -pix_fmt yuv420p -vf detelecine=first_field=top:pattern=23:start_frame=0,crop=704:480,setdar=4/3 "IVTC_out.mp4"

[lollo]

My hardware workflow:

JVC HR-S7800U (purchased though LS)
I-O Data GVUSB2 (opinions welcomed, has been suggested that I upgrade)

Nice VCR.
Excellent capture card, no need to upgrade anything.

My software workflow:

AmaRecTV 3.10 w/HuffYUV 2.1.1 (AVI capture, has no sync issues that I can see)
Handbrake 1.8.2 (AVI to mp4 convert, a work in progress, sync issues)
VLC (AVI to mp4 convert, a work in progress, sync issues)

AmarecTV 3.10 is the best capture software.
Handbrake is useless.
VLC can be used as player, not as editor.

Attached:
AmaRecTv screenshot settings

In "Graph2(Preview)" disable deinterlacing (useless resource consuming feature)
In "Advanced" set Priority to High, enable "Match the start timing of the audio with a video" and enable Make a report file, to have a full log of what happens during capturing; in particolar you can check there where are located the inserted and dropped frames (if any) and understand why.

Attached:
AmaRecTV Avi clip

As others have noticed, this is probably not the raw capture, but a processed file. I still do not understand why the head switching noise is not present, having you disabled the cropping option and being the final size 720x480. Follow Alwin recommendation or use VirtualDub trimming to provide an untouched sample of your capture.

Based on the provided file I can say that the capture looks ok. The is some halo somewhere, use edit mode in your VCR and disable all sharpening features in the VCR and in the capture card:





The levels are correct and no action is required:





As Sharc already wrote the source needs inverse telecine prior to filtering.
To check that, you can run a simple AviSynth script to separate the fields, load it into VirtualDub and step frame-by-frame, recognizing the field architecture ... a a a b b c c c d d ...

AviSource("HuffYuv-007-30fps-02-sample03Ama.avi-Trim.avi")

# separate fields tff
AssumeTFF().separateFields()

A basic AviSynth processing is appropriate, and improves a little bit the overall look. Here a sample (no halo removal):

video_org=AviSource("HuffYuv-007-30fps-02-sample03Ama.avi-Trim.avi")

# trimming
	trim_start=418
	trim_end=986
video_org_trim=video_org.trim(trim_start,trim_end)

# cropping 
	crop_left=4	# | rimozione esatta delle bande nere sinistra, sopra, destra e del disturbo sotto	
	crop_top=0	# | 720-(8+8)x480-(0+0)=704x480
	crop_right=8
	crop_bottom=0
video_org_trim_crop=video_org_trim.crop(crop_left,crop_top,-crop_right,-crop_bottom)

# plugins directory
plugins_dir="C:\Users\giuse\Documents\VideoSoft\MPEG\AviSynth\extFilters\"

	# TIVTC
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "TIVTCv105\TIVTC\TIVTC.dll")

	# TemporalDegrain2
Import(plugins_dir + "TemporalDegrain-v2.2.1_modGMa.avsi")
	# RgTools
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "RgTools-v1.0\x86\RgTools.dll")
	# MaskTools2
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "masktools2-v2.2.23\x86\masktools2.dll")
	# MVTools
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "mvtools-2.7.41-with-depans20200430\x86\mvtools2.dll")
	# FFT3DFilter
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "FFT3dFilter-v2.6\x86\fft3dfilter.dll")
	# FFTW
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "LoadDll\LoadDll.dll")
loadDll(plugins_dir + "fftw-3.3.5-dll32\libfftw3f-3.dll")

	# LSFmod
Import(plugins_dir + "LSFmod.v1.9.avsi")

### inverse telecine
ivtc=video_org_trim_crop.AssumeTFF().TFM(order=1, PP=0).TDecimate()

### convert to YV16
ivtc_yv16=ivtc.convertToYV16()
### denoising
denoised_yv16=ivtc_yv16.TemporalDegrain2(degrainTR=3)
### convert to YUY2
denoised=denoised_yv16.convertToYUY2()

### convert to YV12
denoised_yv12=denoised.convertToYV12()
### sharpening
sharpened_yv12=denoised_yv12.LSFmod(defaults="slow")
### convert to YUY2 with chroma from YUY2 color space
sharpened=sharpened_yv12.convertToYUY2().MergeChroma(denoised)

### adding_borders
restored=sharpened.addborders((crop_left+crop_right)/2,(crop_top+crop_bottom)/2,(crop_left+crop_right)/2,(crop_top+crop_bottom)/2)

return(restored)

Final outcome: restored.avi

Comparison:


Comparison with slider: https://imgsli.com/Mjg4NzQz

For final encoding you can run a simple ffmpeg command line (you may want to add a ConvertToYV12() at the end of the AviSynth script):

ffmpeg.exe -i restored.avs -c:v libx264 -crf 17 -preset slow -aspect 4:3 -c:a aac -b:a 128k restored.mp4

Final outcome: restored.mp4

You can do all this by yourself on the raw capture

[Alwyn]

I think it's too dark (Histogram all in the bottom half) and too saturated. The skin colours are too red.

Here's my attempt, all in VDub2 64bit (De-telecine with ITVC filter, denoise with CCD and Temporal smoother filters, levels and saturation adjusted with Colormill filter, crop and resize to 720x540 and export as MP4).

Apart from the levels and colour, IMO, the essential difference is Lollo's use of the AVISynth TemporalDegrain2 filter to denoise, which does a good job (possibly a bit too good in this case; the skins are a bit smooth).

[Sharc]

I think it's too dark (Histogram all in the bottom half) and too saturated. The skin colours are too red.

Here's my attempt, all in VDub2 64bit (De-telecine with ITVC filter, denoise with CCD and Temporal smoother filters, levels and saturation adjusted with Colormill filter, crop and resize to 720x540 and export as MP4).

Apart from the levels and colour, IMO, the essential difference is Lollo's use of the AVISynth TemporalDegrain2 filter to denoise, which does a good job (possibly a bit too good in this case; the skins are a bit smooth).

To me the colors look a bit "washed out" in Alwyn's version. I agree though that lollo's degraining makes the faces too much look like wax IMO (the lady may like it though). But discussing personal preferences and taste is usually moot ....
... and eventually watch it on your TV as well. The impression may be different again.

[Alwyn]

Sharc, what's your opinion of the levels? All on the bottom half (or left half) of the histogram?

[Sharc]

Sharc, what's your opinion of the levels? All on the bottom half (or left half) of the histogram?

The scene plays in a dark environment with artificial light. So I think it's ok ....

Added:
Here the waveform of the capture (*.avi). It's a good capture, and the GV-USB2 dongle did a good job

[lollo]

I never use color correction for these examples here in the forum, it is really a question of personal taste.
Moreover, for capture of movies, in general a solid reference exist in DVD or Blu Ray releases, so the AviSynth matching histograms or matching gamma filters can be used with success.

Concerning the denoise strength (and then plastic look), it can be sligthly softened reducing the temporal radius of the filter (for example).
Some comparison here: https://imgsli.com/Mjg4NzY2/2/1 (more grain on the face, maybe the lady won't be happy )

As we always say, the user has to experiment a lot with all the parameters to find the best (for him) solution

edit:

Here the waveform of the capture (*.avi). It's a good capture, and the GV-USB2 dongle did a good job

Yes, Hauppauge USB-Live 2 and IOData GV-USB2 are really nice cards!

[Alwyn]

OK thanks, Still reckon it's a bit dark.

[lollo]

OK thanks, Still reckon it's a bit dark.

Yes. It's always the doubt about being close to the source master or to the real world...

[916Area52]

Well now…

Thank you All for your feedback and time spent.

As my Sunday unfolds, I now have a plethora of information and new (to me) software to digest.

@ lollo “You can run a simple AviSynth script to separate the fields”

Coding/script is waaaaay beyond knowledge base and my talents, perhaps I’ll give a go at a later time.


@ lollo “Use edit mode in your VCR and disable all sharpening features in the VCR and in the capture card”

Thank you, and Done.

@ Alwyn “Could you crank up AVIDemux and do a snippet with that; then we'll get a true copy of your capture?”

Thank you, and Done.

Got an error flag when I stopped the recording on AmaRecTV for avidemux01. Unfortunately, I just blew by it, something to with hard drive space, I think. Error did not reoccur when AmaRecTV stopped recording for avidemux02.

Opened both .avi files in VLC to view. VLC wanted to do something with the file structure, I opted to run as is.

Did the "snippet" with Avidemux. Nice piece of software.

Please see attached…

[Sharc]

Did the "snippet" with Avidemux.
Please see attached…

Capture ok. As said before, just IVTC (Inverse Telecine (='Detelecine' in Handbrake)) it, see post#10 for example.

[916Area52]

Did the "snippet" with Avidemux.
Please see attached…

Capture ok. As said before, just IVTC (Inverse Telecine (='Detelecine' in Handbrake)) it, see post#10 for example.

Will give a go, Thank you.

[Sharc]

Did the "snippet" with Avidemux.
Please see attached…

Capture ok. As said before, just IVTC (Inverse Telecine (='Detelecine' in Handbrake)) it, see post#10 for example.

Will give a go, Thank you.

Here Handbrake settings which should work (I don't really use Handbrake though):

[Attachment 81600 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 81601 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 81606 - Click to enlarge]

or alternatively try the ffmpeg commandline of post#10.

[Alwyn]

Unless you specifically want to use Handbrake's denoising, I'd give it a miss. It looks pretty and modern, but the people who set up the cropping and resizing section must have been high on drugs at the time.

VDub does a great job here: use the IVTC filter and you can crop/resize and export to MP4 in one hit. Set up the IVTC filter like this:


[Attachment 81619 - Click to enlarge]

[Alwyn]

Found on Reddit. Deserves a chuckle...

Perfect is the enemy of finished, after all.

[Sharc]

Unless you specifically want to use Handbrake's denoising, I'd give it a miss. It looks pretty and modern, but the people who set up the cropping and resizing section must have been high on drugs at the time.

VDub does a great job here: use the IVTC filter and you can crop/resize and export to MP4 in one hit. Set up the IVTC filter like this:

Eh? Not to defend or bash any GUI, but just because you don't understand what to click-click in Handbrake for resizing, and yourself having been spoonfed recently only with what to click-click in Vdub for IVTC, you feel entitled to call developers of Handbrake having been "high on drugs"?
End of rant

[Alwyn]

Eh? indeed.

Geez Sharc, calm down. Have you ever actually tried to set a specific frame size and crop with Handbrake?

And what on earth has being spoon fed (aka like extracting teeth) on the IVTC filter in VDub got to do with cropping in Handbrake? Or maybe you could continue spoon-feeding me and set me straight on that too...

PS: "Click click" that's what GUIs are for. If you have to spend hours trying to work something out and then fail, that is not a good GUI.

[lollo]

Moreover, there is no need to resize anything!

[Alwyn]

Just setting square pixels, Lollo. Or is that against the law too?

[lollo]

There is no need to set any square pixels through a lossy resizing. Keep 720x480 with a 4:3 display aspect ratio.

[Sharc]

...Have you ever actually tried to set a specific frame size and crop with Handbrake?
And what on earth has being spoon fed (aka like extracting teeth) on the IVTC filter in VDub got to do with cropping in Handbrake? Or maybe you could continue spoon-feeding me and set me straight on that too...

It's all about knowing and personal experience how to use a specific GUI for a specific purpose, be it Vdub, Handbrake, Avidemux .....
A learning curve and likes/dislikes, pros/cons for every GUI, no? In order to help the OP with Handbrake (his original tool & preference) I had to learn and try how to use it (instead of a commandline or Avisynth, or something else). And yes, I cropped to 704x480 and set the DAR correctly. Hopefully it works for him (?). Handbrake file attached: 704x480, PAR 10/11, DAR 640x480 = 4:3, no resizing.