Cleaning Signal -- What Options Exist?

[lordsmurf]

https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/File:Hpg_usb_live2_top.jpg
https://www.beholder-europe.com/support/datasheets/Conexant%20-%20CX23102.pdf

Even being on the same wafer isn't necessarily conjoined in function. On a hardware R&D project some years ago, I saw this behavior for the first time, and I had a real "WTF" moment, because I had also wrongly assumed sync was shared. It's not. Separate clocks. The spec sheet diagram for this chip is no different.

I still remember the days when VH members mostly agreed that Conexant chips were garbage for capture cards. This place has strayed far in recent past years, and not in a good way.

If anything, single chips scream "cheap".
I know that my integrated Intel graphics performs worse than dedicated graphic cards. But I admit it. I don't make excuses on why it's still best. I needed quieter/cooler, so I gladly compromised on my graphics output. I don't play video games, and I state it freely. But audio/video capture is a vastly different story.

I'm consistent. I don't know why some people twist themselves into pretzels to make their choices seem "best" in all regards. You probably wanted a cheap card, and you got it -- but there are reason it's cheap (and not overly desired). That's fine, it's definitely performative for the sub-$100 price, "the best of the bottom".

My problem is when hardware/software has glaring issues ignored by those who tout it. That in itself is weird to me -- unless you're a large stockholder and/or owner of the company (which is still potentially unethical, but at least that situation makes sense). I like my ball teams, but I'm not going to defend their rapey salaries. Do I want them to win? Yep! Do I think everything about them is best? Hell no.

AmaRecTV's and Live2's shit stinks too. It's not roses.

I'm equally not going to sit here and fellate VirtualDub or ATI. But those devices check most of the boxes, and hence why suggested.

I'm glad AmaRecTV and GV-USB2/Live work for you. But I've gotten lots of reports of it not working. You almost bully members that don't agree, so they don't want to post, and take your abuse. I'm not afraid to stand up to you -- especially because we're friendly (even if these posts make it seems otherwise). It's just an area where we disagree, even if we agree in most other areas.

So I shall just end it here:

[lollo]

Even being on the same wafer isn't necessarily conjoined in function. On a hardware R&D project some years ago, I saw this behavior for the first time, and I had a real "WTF" moment, because I had also wrongly assumed sync was shared. It's not. Separate clocks. The spec sheet diagram for this chip is no different.

...

You really have no idea about what you are talking about, and I do not believe you had any R&D project on hardware.

When we design an IC, being a SP (Standard Product) a ASSP (Application Specific Standard Product) or an ASIC (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) if a clock is needed an "oscillation" coming from a Quartz is used as reference. The primary clock is then reduced in frequency with a digital circuitery and/or increased in frequency with a PLL (Phase Locked Loop) to generate all the clocks necessary for the different circuits. But the primary reference is one.

When you have more cards, the references are different and although the specification for the accuaracy in term of the absolute value is very very close (the spread in term of absolute freuency for the quartz is very small), the relative rising and falling edges of the clocks arrival in time is not related. And the phase noise and long term jitter also play a role but that's another story.

I'm consistent. I don't know why some people twist themselves into pretzels to make their choices seem "best" in all regards. You probably wanted a cheap card, and you got it -- but there are reason it's cheap (and not overly desired). That's fine, it's definitely performative for the sub-$100 price, "the best of the bottom".

No, you are just supporting your sales. The GV-USB2 and the Live-2 are in pair and better than the "expensive" Pinnacle 710-USB and the ATI 600-USB that you sell. BTW, when they were new, the cards you sell as "the best" were in the same range in term of price then the current solutions.

AmaRecTV's and Live2's shit stinks too. It's not roses.

Absolutely yes.

I'm glad AmaRecTV and GV-USB2/Live work for you. But I've gotten lots of reports of it not working. You almost bully members that don't agree, so they don't want to post, and take your abuse.

I see. The problem is then that I bully members and they do not want to post facts and evidences of capture software and capture cards bad behaviour. Interesting theory.

I'm not afraid to stand up to you -- especially because we're friendly (even if these posts make it seems otherwise). It's just an area where we disagree, even if we agree in most other areas.

You can't stand up to me or anybody else, providing false theories about capture software (transport streams, dropped/inserted frames, asynch aspects, etc...) and cards (Live-2 multiple revisions, overall quality of current cards, ICs architecture, etc...). Simply because you are not competent in some areas. No problem with that, I am not competent in many other areas as well.

However is true that we agree on many other subjects, and being the final goals of writing here helping people, I think we often reach our objective, and give to the readers many elements to judge (and more important, experiment!) by themselves.

So I shall just end it here:

Me too. Until next time you'll start writing again your non-sense about all this, because I do not want you confuse people with false theories

[lordsmurf]

No, you are just supporting your sales.

That is always such a ridiculous argument.

I didn't sell anything for almost 20 years, and I suggested most of the same gear then*. The entire reason that I began to refurb gear for others -- and yes, sell it, for money, oh no, how evil and icky! capture card cooties! -- was because I saw how much of the gear we needed (recommended S-VHS VCRs with line TBC, recommended frame TBCs, recommended capture cards) was falling into disrepair. I never thought I'd be doing it 8 years later.

* We're time locked, nothing new really exists for SD videotape conversion. Even the "new" GV-USB2 is not new whatsoever, just re-releasing the same stale overall designs from a decade or more ago. Some external production run changes, which I noticed after acquiring several copies, as have others. When I have time, I'll see if it's also internal. Internal is always likely, due to how the semiconductor industry operates, how quickly things obsolesce.

There was a lot of R&D involved with the entire process of refurb'ing gear. Spouting off mere model numbers is misleading. Almost everything has production variations, undocumented versioning, something you only realize after seeing dozen of "the same" (NOT THE SAME!) cards/TBCs/VCRs. I actually still find new versions of gear on a fairly regular basis. I've seen items with up to 6 different versions, each operating slightly different, sometimes in a bad way. In general, production changes are bad, it's substitution for discontinued components. None of this should surprise in-the-know tech users. For example, Linus Tech Tips has commented on this issue for years, rarely in a good way.

I take the mystery out of capture for others, the new users to our community. They get known quality gear (no hunting, no guessing, no buying random eBay crap from shady/idiot sellers), and can they start using it immediately. I also do my best to help them, they're not just left to their own devices, as is often the case when some random person online wrote/said "this is best, you should buy one just like me!" and then they're nowhere to be found when it all goes wrong.

BTW, no, false, incorrect, all of the gear I refurb had MSRP over $100 minimum (capture cards), much of it vastly more (TBCs, VCRs). None of it was bargain basement gear. With 20 years of inflation, plus refurb work/time/expenses (and the gear essentially refreshed as new now), my gear is still discounted to that decades-old adjusted MSRP.

So enough of that.

I see. The problem is then that I bully members

You do. You're a bit of an ass. But it's culture differences, translation differences, so I overlook it.

What I think matters most is your knowledge/skill at Avisynth. These capture card discussions are a sideshow to what you can offer the community with scripting help.

So again, attempting to end on a friendly note.

[lollo]

You do. You're a bit of an ass. But it's culture differences, translation differences, so I overlook it.

Not at all, I am a "bit of an ass" only when in front of me I see incompetence and falsity (which sometimes happens when you are involved). The culture and translation are not the reason.

What I think matters most is your knowledge/skill at Avisynth. These capture card discussions are a sideshow to what you can offer the community with scripting help.

You won't be able to categorize me in a sector. My capture card discussions are always pertinent, accurate and approriate, and offer solid solutions

So again, attempting to end on a friendly note.

Sure!