Converting Sony HVR-MRC1 DV files to ProRes...

[plehoediv]

Hi,

Finally got my Sony HVR-MRC1 and I have two choices for recording formats. AVI and RAW DV. That confused me a little bit because when I transfer files from a camcorder to a laptop, I get AVI files, and this is supposed to happen without loss, since it is just a transfer and not a conversion. To me, that is RAW. Isn't it? If that is the case, then why is there a RAW DV?

Anyhow, Davinci Resolve cannot read those (DV) files. So I decided to convert them to Apple ProRes 422 HQ using Shutter Encoder. Is this a good choice? Is it a lossless conversion?

Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

Finally got my Sony HVR-MRC1 and I have two choices for recording formats. AVI and RAW DV. That confused me a little bit because when I transfer files from a camcorder to a laptop, I get AVI files, and this is supposed to happen without loss, since it is just a transfer and not a conversion. To me, that is RAW. Isn't it? If that is the case, then why is there a RAW DV?

AVI is a container. DV can be put into MOV container as well. There is no loss if it's transferred over fire wire . Streams can be transferred in/out of containers without loss if done properly

Anyhow, Davinci Resolve cannot read those (DV) files.

DV-AVI is supported . I just verified and it works ok (at least in the Studio version - I would imagine it should work in the free version too, because DV is a consumer 8bit format)
https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/SupportNotes/DaVinci_Resolve_18_Supported_Codec_List.pdf

So I decided to convert them to Apple ProRes 422 HQ using Shutter Encoder. Is this a good choice?

It's a good high quality alternative

Is it a lossless conversion?

No

[plehoediv]

AVI is a container. DV can be put into MOV container as well. There is no loss if it's transferred over fire wire . Streams can be transferred in/out of containers without loss if done properly

I understand.

DV-AVI is supported . I just verified and it works ok (at least in the Studio version - I would imagine it should work in the free version too, because DV is a consumer 8bit format)
https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/SupportNotes/DaVinci_Resolve_18_Supported_Codec_List.pdf

I am using DaVinci Resolve (free version) on my PC, and the files are not supported. I just checked on my MacBook Pro (Studio Version) and it definitely does NOT support those files. By "those" files I mean files ending in .dv and .avi. That is what I get from the HVR-MRC1. I also just checked if Resolve supports the .avi files, transferred from a camcorder using Scenealyzer, and they are.

It's a good high quality alternative

Good to know.

No

Ok. I guess the question is how much loss is there. : )

Ok, so let me get this straight. When recording to miniDV tape and then transferring to a PC using a firewire cable and Scenealyzer, there is no loss and I get .avi files. Those files are supported in Resolve.

When I now record straight to my MRC1, from a camcorder, I can either record in .avi or .dv files (menu of the MRC1 calls it RAW DV), but none of them are supported in Resolve. Hmm? This makes me wonder why? Why are the files that are being recorded to the MRC1 so "different" from the files simply transferred from the tape? I guess that is another question all together.

I guess it would make sense to capture something with tape, transfer it to a PC, and then capture the same "something" with the MRC1, convert it to ProRes and then compare the two. On the other hand, who cares what looks better, if at all. Its about the old school feel of filming with a camcorder and the added convenience of having the footage right away on a CF card.

Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

I guess the question is how much loss is there. : )

The loss is minimal for ProResHQ .

But it's silly to use ProResHQ for DV IMO if you can avoid it - because it will make the filesize much larger, you do incur some tiny loss in quality, but it also takes extra time for converting . It's all negatives, zero positives

Ok, so let me get this straight. When recording to miniDV tape and then transferring to a PC using a firewire cable and Scenealyzer, there is no loss and I get .avi files. Those files are supported in Resolve.

Definitely works for Studio version . Are you assuming that it works on your setup, or did you confirm that worked for the free version ?

When I now record straight to my MRC1, from a camcorder, I can either record in .avi or .dv files (menu of the MRC1 calls it RAW DV), but none of them are supported in Resolve. Hmm? This makes me wonder why? Why are the files that are being recorded to the MRC1 so "different" from the files simply transferred from the tape? I guess that is another question all together.

What does mediainfo (view=>text) say about these files ?

There might be a limitation for the free version, but I doubt it for DV

[plehoediv]

The loss is minimal for ProResHQ .

Thats good to know.

But it's silly to use ProResHQ for DV IMO if you can avoid it - because it will make the filesize much larger, you do incur some tiny loss in quality, but it also takes extra time for converting . It's all negatives, zero positives

I agree, but I have no other option if I want to edit in Resolve. I am telling you, the .dv files that I get from the MRC1 are NOT working in Resolve. Maybe there is an option or setting to make it work, but as of right now, its now working.


"Ok, so let me get this straight. When recording to miniDV tape and then transferring to a PC using a firewire cable and Scenealyzer, there is no loss and I get .avi files. Those files are supported in Resolve."

Definitely works for Studio version . Are you assuming that it works on your setup, or did you confirm that worked for the free version ?

I think we are not on the same page. I am confirming that the files do NOT show up in the FREE or the STUDIO version! Maybe I need to upload a file so you can try it, but its not working for me.

What does mediainfo (view=>text) say about these files ? There might be a limitation for the free version, but I doubt it for DV

I would have to see what mediainfo says.

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

Here is a super short clip I found. Should be enough to see if you can Import it or not.

Ok, uploaded a RAW DV and a AVI file. Both come straight from the MRC1...

Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

This is Type 2 DV ; you want Type 1 DV (audio in 1 track) which is supported by Resolve

See if there is setting to record Type 1

Or there are Type 2 to Type 1 converters.

Another method is vdub2 video=>direct stream copy ; but the audio will only include one of the stereo tracks . You'd have to do a custom mix or extract the other track and import separately

[plehoediv]

This is Type 2 DV ; you want Type 1 DV (audio in 1 track) which is supported by Resolve

See if there is setting to record Type 1

Nope. I see nothing in the menu that would suggest that you can change between type 1 and 2.

Or there are Type 2 to Type 1 converters.

Would such a converter be of advantage compared to me converting to ProRes?

Another method is vdub2 video=>direct stream copy ; but the audio will only include one of the stereo tracks . You'd have to do a custom mix or extract the other track and import separately

To complicated for me, ha ha. I just want a simple solution. : )

Thanks for all the help.

[poisondeathray]

Or there are Type 2 to Type 1 converters.

Would such a converter be of advantage compared to me converting to ProRes?

Yes, almost all the advantages - no quality loss, smaller file size . It's basically a stream copy into a new container, so faster than re-encoding to prores too

Another method is vdub2 video=>direct stream copy ; but the audio will only include one of the stereo tracks . You'd have to do a custom mix or extract the other track and import separately

To complicated for me, ha ha. I just want a simple solution. : )

Hmmm... I thought that was easy... most people prefer GUI's instead of command lines. And it worked on your sample to import to Resolve

I think you should be able to do that in ffmpeg with a batch file

[poisondeathray]

It works ok in ffmpeg , and keeps both separate audio tracks, and they show up in resolve

Batch file to process a folder of AVI's . The new files will have "type1" appended to the file name

for %%a in ("*.avi") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.avi"
pause

Type 1 DV has slightly higher filesize because of more overhead, it's normal. This is a lossless remux

[plehoediv]

Yes, almost all the advantages - no quality loss, smaller file size . It's basically a stream copy into a new container, so faster than re-encoding to prores too

Ok, gonna look into that. Do you have any app in mind?

Hmmm... I thought that was easy... most people prefer GUI's instead of command lines. And it worked on your sample to import to Resolve

I think you should be able to do that in ffmpeg with a batch file

I do prefer GUI like Shutter Encoder. I am NOT a fan of command lines at all. Zero. Maybe I confused vdub2 with ffmpeg. You also mentioned something about "custom mixing or extracting...". That definitely sounds too complicated to me, ha ha.

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

It works ok in ffmpeg , and keeps both separate audio tracks, and they show up in resolve

Batch file to process a folder of AVI's . The new files will have "type1" appended to the file name

for %%a in ("*.avi") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.avi"
pause

Type 1 DV has slightly higher filesize because of more overhead, it's normal. This is a lossless remux

Thanks for the command. I guess I am going to do a quick google search for type 2 to type 1 converter or try vdub2 before doing the "lines".

Thanks again.

[poisondeathray]

I can't remember the DV type 2 to type 1 converters, I haven't really dealt with DV much in many years. FFmpeg can do it anyways if you can't find them

I don't know if shutter allows you to adjust the command line - if it can - it should be able too

The key commands are "-map 0" to select all streams , "-c copy" to stream copy (prevent re-encoding)

I'm not up to date on all the ffmpeg gui's . There might be one more suitable for this task than shutter for GUIs

[plehoediv]

I can't remember the DV type 2 to type 1 converters, I haven't really dealt with DV much in many years. FFmpeg can do it anyways if you can't find them

I did a google search and apparently, a bunch of people had a similar issue, back in the days. So I downloaded a few apps, SyncView, Canopus_DV_File_Converter and uleaddvconverter. None of these apps were even able to open my .DV files! They dont even show up...

I don't know if shutter allows you to adjust the command line - if it can - it should be able too

Not sure it can. Just looked at all the settings.

The key commands are "-map 0" to select all streams , "-c copy" to stream copy (prevent re-encoding)

Roger that.

I'm not up to date on all the ffmpeg gui's . There might be one more suitable for this task than shutter for GUIs

No sweat.

Thanks.

[Alwyn]

For DV work, try DVDate from Paul Glagla:

http://paul.glagla.free.fr/index_en.htm

One of the menu options is to convert between type 1 and 2.

If DVDate won't open your file, IMO it's well and truly borked.

[plehoediv]

For DV work, try DVDate from Paul Glagla:

http://paul.glagla.free.fr/index_en.htm

One of the menu options is to convert between type 1 and 2.

If DVDate won't open your file, IMO it's well and truly borked.

Nope! Not working. No app is able to even see the .DV file!!! Does it work for you!? Not talking about the .avi file.

Thanks.

[Alwyn]

No luck here. I could open it in vDub2, VideoRedo and MPEG Streamclip. There is an audio track which I can hear, but the video in all three programs is black.

[plehoediv]

No luck here. I could open it in vDub2, VideoRedo and MPEG Streamclip. There is an audio track which I can hear, but the video in all three programs is black.

Appreciate you trying. Thanks. I guess I am going to just convert the files to ProRes or try ffmpeg.

[poisondeathray]

The .dv video is dark, but it's not "black"

ffmpeg can batch convert the .dv file and keep all tracks - that's what I would use (or maybe some GUI for it) . (Instead of *.avi , you would use *.dv in the batch)

The .dv video works ok in vdub2 for me, but like the AVI , the 2nd audio track isn't retained. Less ideal

mpegstreamclip can open the .dv file if you have QT installed (QT can open it too) . Not ideal because they won't convert to type1 and that won't help you with Resolve

[plehoediv]

The .dv video is dark, but it's not "black"

ffmpeg can batch convert the .dv file and keep all tracks - that's what I would use (or maybe some GUI for it) . (Instead of *.avi , you would use *.dv in the batch)

The .dv video works ok in vdub2 for me, but like the AVI , the 2nd audio track isn't retained. Less ideal

mpegstreamclip can open the .dv file if you have QT installed (QT can open it too) . Not ideal because they won't convert to type1 and that won't help you with Resolve

Thanks for breaking it down. ffmpeg it is...

[poisondeathray]

Some versions of Resolve have problems with audio in AVI - I'd actually put it into a MOV container. Everything works better in MOV compared to AVI in Resolve, even on Windows. As a general rule for Resolve, if you have a choice use MOV.

I'd do this if you're using .dv

for %%a in ("*.dv") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.mov"
pause

[Alwyn]

The .dv video is dark, but it's not "black"

Oops, notices sun on laptop screen... should take my sunglasses off!

[plehoediv]

Some versions of Resolve have problems with audio in AVI - I'd actually put it into a MOV container. Everything works better in MOV compared to AVI in Resolve, even on Windows. As a general rule for Resolve, if you have a choice use MOV.

I'd do this if you're using .dv

for %%a in ("*.dv") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.mov"
pause

I used ffmpeg once or twice. Have to look up again how to do it. I went to start (Windows 11) and typed cmd and hit enter. Command prompt opened. I then typed d: and got to my drive D. That is where I placed the three ffmpeg files and the video called Thanos,DV. I wasnt sure what part of what you wrote is the command so I tried

ffmpeg -i "Thanos.DV" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.mov"

I got an error message. See attached file (please).

Thanks
pause

[plehoediv]

for %%a in ("*.dv") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.mov"
pause

The part in Bolt is what confused me...

P.S. Its late over here. Might have to try tomorrow. Thanks again.

[plehoediv]

One more thing. I checked Shutter Encoder again and it has a feature called "rewrap" and you can choose .avi as output file. I did that and I got an .avi file that I can now use in Resolve! Maybe that is the same as what ffmpeg does? I don't know how to tell if it is now type 1 or type 2. Here is the media info text.

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

Some versions of Resolve have problems with audio in AVI - I'd actually put it into a MOV container. Everything works better in MOV compared to AVI in Resolve, even on Windows. As a general rule for Resolve, if you have a choice use MOV.

I'd do this if you're using .dv

for %%a in ("*.dv") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.mov"
pause

Btw, I looked at the converted prores footage and I see zero difference between the original . DV file, so I don't mind using mov files. In my last post I was just curious to see if the avi file is indeed type 1 or 2.

Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

ffmpeg -i "Thanos.DV" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.mov"

I got an error message. See attached file (please).

For non batch (converting 1 at a time), you'd enter the output file name

ffmpeg -i "Thanos.DV" -map 0 -c copy "Thanos.mov"

for %%a in ("*.dv") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.mov"
pause

The part in Bolt is what confused me...

That's for a batch file , wildcards so all the files in a folder with extension .dv are converted instead of manually doing it 1 by 1 .


If you use a command line for batching directly instead of batch file (.bat) , use 1 "%" instead of 2 "%%"

for %a in ("*.dv") do ffmpeg -i "%a" -map 0 -c copy "%~na_type1.mov"

One more thing. I checked Shutter Encoder again and it has a feature called "rewrap" and you can choose .avi as output file. I did that and I got an .avi file that I can now use in Resolve! Maybe that is the same as what ffmpeg does? I don't know how to tell if it is now type 1 or type 2. Here is the media info text.

Yes, looks good

But I would use rewrap to MOV instead of AVI

Btw, I looked at the converted prores footage and I see zero difference between the original . DV file, so I don't mind using mov files. In my last post I was just curious to see if the avi file is indeed type 1 or 2.

There is if you look closely, and it's going to be about 1.5-2x the filesize

[plehoediv]

ffmpeg -i "Thanos.DV" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.mov"

I got an error message. See attached file (please).

For non batch (converting 1 at a time), you'd enter the output file name

ffmpeg -i "Thanos.DV" -map 0 -c copy "Thanos.mov"

for %%a in ("*.dv") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -map 0 -c copy "%%~na_type1.mov"
pause

The part in Bolt is what confused me...

That's for a batch file , wildcards so all the files in a folder with extension .dv are converted instead of manually doing it 1 by 1 .


If you use a command line for batching directly instead of batch file (.bat) , use 1 "%" instead of 2 "%%"

for %a in ("*.dv") do ffmpeg -i "%a" -map 0 -c copy "%~na_type1.mov"

One more thing. I checked Shutter Encoder again and it has a feature called "rewrap" and you can choose .avi as output file. I did that and I got an .avi file that I can now use in Resolve! Maybe that is the same as what ffmpeg does? I don't know how to tell if it is now type 1 or type 2. Here is the media info text.

Yes, looks good

But I would use rewrap to MOV instead of AVI

Btw, I looked at the converted prores footage and I see zero difference between the original . DV file, so I don't mind using mov files. In my last post I was just curious to see if the avi file is indeed type 1 or 2.

There is if you look closely, and it's going to be about 1.5-2x the filesize

I tried replying to each comment individually, but the whole quoting thing got too complicated, ha ha. Anyhow, thanks for all the codes and explaining what they do.

I tried "rewrap" to MOV in Shutter Encoder (on my PC), but it did not work!? Rewrap to AVI does work. I can also go to 'Editing Codecs' and pick Apple ProRes and that will work as well. So who know why rewrap to MOv does not work. Maybe it is a PC thing. Will try my Mac tomorrow. I like rewrap because I did a google search and this is what came up:

"The main difference between rewrapping and converting a video is:
Rewrapping simply changes the container or wrapper of the video file without recompressing the video and audio data. It keeps the original video and audio codecs intact. This is a quick process and maintains the original quality."

Exactly what I was looking for. too bad it doesn't work.

Increase in file size is not an issue for me. I am not doing this professionally (obviously) so I only have a few files here and there.

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

By the way, when rewrapping to MOV using Shutter Encoder, it operates smoothly with files other than .DV files sourced from the MRC1. Hence, the issue seems specific to the .DV files. Just saying.