Deinterlacing in 2024...

[VHSvideocapture]

Wrong order of operations. Deinterlace first, filter after.

Everything is interlaced
Virtuldub lossless capture - interlaced saved as lossless avi goes into Vegas for clean up grading and de noise interlaced, the issue seems to be saving it as interlaced for lagrith because lagrith always shows progressive in Vegas and Hybrid.

Then open the supposedly interlaced file hybrid de-interlace then resize upscale if uploading online.

If I choose "reduce interlaced flicker" in vegas then open saved file in Hybrid it de-interlace fine, my question im I doing the right thing?

[lollo]

Neat can also filter interlaced video.

Not as effectively as a denoise on progressive frames

[VHSvideocapture]

Neat can also filter interlaced video.

Yes but should I just use neat in virtualdub and export interlaced huffy?
Vegas has better color correction tools because it is made for that.

I have a few virtualdub plug ins for color correction but they aren't as good as Vegas
They can reduce Red Green Blue, as well as Brightness, Contrast, Hue.

I also have 1 or 2 de-interlace plug ins for virtuldub too, not sure if they are good.

[lollo]

my question im I doing the right thing?

What you do not understand in deinterlace-first, denoise-after?

I have a few virtualdub plug ins for color correction but they aren't as good as Vegas
They can reduce Red Green Blue, as well as Brightness, Contrast, Hue.

The color correction is absolutely the last operation to be performed, together with the final level adjustement.

[VHSvideocapture]

What you do not understand in deinterlace-first, denoise-after?

I do understand but I can't because the de-noise can only be done in Vegas or VD.

The De-interlacing is done by Hybrid, I don't think I can add neat video in Hybrid, that is the problem ☹️

The color correction is absolutely the last operation to be performed, together with the final level adjustement.

Only if I was doing everything in one software but im not I'm using 3


VD for capture
Vegas for color correction
Hybrid for de-interlace and resize

[rgr]

VD for capture
Vegas for color correction
Hybrid for de-interlace and resize

1. Capture (VD)
2. Deinterlace, denoise + resize (AVS+VD)
3. Color correction (Vegas)

[lollo]

Capture lossless with VirtualDub.

Deinterlace and denoise with AviSynth or Hybrid exporting as lossless.

Color correct with Vegas (I do not know Vegas, not sure it can read lossless, but in any case you now use it after VirtualDub anyhow, so there should be no regression compared to your existing approach)

edit: rgr was faster

[VHSvideocapture]

1. Capture (VD)✅
2. Deinterlace, denoise + resize (AVS+VD) ❌
3. Color correction (Vegas)✅

I don't want to use AVS Avisynth on it's own because you have to manually script and download lots of filters to get de-interlace filter going.

[rgr]

(I do not know Vegas, not sure it can read lossless)

ProRes or 8-bit RGB/YUV (UTVideo for sure, maybe Huffyuv also).
For color correction, I would choose ProRes.

[VHSvideocapture]

Capture lossless with VirtualDub.

Deinterlace and denoise with AviSynth or Hybrid exporting as lossless.

Can it do that? I don't see a lossless codec installed in Hybrid

Color correct with Vegas (I do not know Vegas, not sure it can read lossless, but in any case you now use it after VirtualDub anyhow, so there should be no regression compared to your existing approach)

edit: rgr was faster

It can read and export lossless both Huff and Lagrith show up in Vegas I've never had any issues with it.

[lollo]

I don't want to use AVS Avisynth on it's ow

Bad choice, but Hybrid can help here.

For color correction, I would choose ProRes.

For color correction I would choose DaVinci Resolve

Can it do that? I don't see a lossless codec installed in Hybrid

Selur will help here soon, I suppose...

[VHSvideocapture]

ProRes or 8-bit RGB/YUV (UTVideo for sure, maybe Huffyuv also).
For color correction, I would choose ProRes.

It can do Huff 8bit YUV as long as Huff is set correctly during export. (Predict best meridian)
I don't think Vegas movie studio has a pro res codec, pro res is mostly Apple and Adobe.
Hybrid does have the pro res codec for sure because I've seen it, i haven't used it though.

[VHSvideocapture]

I don't want to use AVS Avisynth on it's ow

Bad choice, but Hybrid can help here.

For color correction, I would choose ProRes.

For color correction I would choose DaVinci Resolve

Can it do that? I don't see a lossless codec installed in Hybrid

Selur will help here soon, I suppose...

Resolve has limited codec support and you can't import a lossless codec file.

[Sharc]

Can it do that? I don't see a lossless codec installed in Hybrid

Eh? Hybrid offers ffv1, UTVideo, FFvHuff as lossless codecs, and ProRes as visually lossless .....
Anything more needed?

[poisondeathray]

Resolve added support for FFV1 a while back
https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/SupportNotes/DaVinci_Resolve_18_Supported_Codec_List.pdf

v210 was always supported even very old versions (lossless, uncompressed , packed 10bit422)

[VHSvideocapture]

Resolve added support for FFV1 a while back
https://documents.blackmagicdesign.com/SupportNotes/DaVinci_Resolve_18_Supported_Codec_List.pdf

v210 was always supported even very old versions (lossless, uncompressed , packed 10bit422)

I never know that before.
I think premiere and resolve have a very mess interface when it comes to adding plug ins and color correction
Can they open a Lagrith lossless file or Huffyuv captured in VD?; I have never tried it myself so I'm only going with what I've read online.

I have used premiere and gave up on it color correction was so difficult you just don't know what filter is opened and you have to drag and drop each filter to the time.

Vegas is child's play very friendly very good interface all the plug ins open at once, you have plug in categories Vegas plug ins or 3rd party plugins, easy to edit plug ins.

I have basic colour correction plug ins for VD that work with the 32bit version of VD but I can't save them in the plugs folder of VD because my PC is windows 64 bit, tired to save plug ins but they will not show up in filters menu, they only show up if I add manually gy clicking on the ooad button in virtualdub.

[VHSvideocapture]

Hybrid offers ffv1, UTVideo, FFvHuff as lossless codecs, and ProRes as visually lossless .....
Anything more needed?

I will have to investigate this.
I I chose Huff will it ask me to set bitrate or will it take the bitrate of the originally fed file?

[poisondeathray]

Can they open a Lagrith lossless file or Huffyuv captured in VD?;

Resolve cannot ; Premiere can, but YUV "lossless" codec formats are mishanded and get treated as RGB - thus they are not lossless in PP. Same with vegas BTW . Uncompressed UYVY are lossless for 8bit422 in PP and vegas

I I chose Huff will it ask me to set bitrate or will it take the bitrate of the originally fed file?

All lossless codecs cannot set the bitrate . They use whatever bitrate is required to achieve "losslessness" given the encoder settings and characteristics for a given source

[VHSvideocapture]

Resolve cannot ; Premiere can, but YUV "lossless" codec formats are mishanded and get treated as RGB - thus they are not lossless in PP. Same with vegas BTW . Uncompressed UYVY are lossless for 8bit422 in PP and vegas

Wow this is a new problem in the mix, who knew capturing VHS would be this difficult?
I've saved YUV in vegas by setting it YUV2 in vegas temple then opened it in Hybrid and the media info tab in Hybrid showing it a 4:2:2 Huff or Lagrith 8bit YUV file, is media info misreading the colorspace in Hybrid?

All lossless codecs cannot set the bitrate . They use whatever bitrate is required to achieve "losslessness" given the encoder settings and characteristics for a given source

That means if Huff is chosen in Hybrid I will not need to set the bite it will calculate it automatically?

That's what should happen with a lossless file, it does in virtualdub, the codec setting doesn't have a set birate option, meridian (best) option is chosen automatically for best results.

[rgr]

I don't think Vegas movie studio has a pro res codec, pro res is mostly Apple and Adobe.

For years. "VEGAS Creative Software has released an update for VEGAS Pro 19 that supports Apple ProRes video editing on Windows machines. You'll be able to work with nearly every flavor of ProRes, from ProRes 4444 to ProRes 422 Proxy."

[poisondeathray]

I've saved YUV in vegas by setting it YUV2 in vegas temple

Vegas internally works in RGB. Exporting 8bit YUV is technically lossy

Importing most "lossless" YUV codecs such as huffyuv 4:2:2 into vegas is lossy.

Especially be aware of clipping highlights, you need to recover them in YUV (bring to legal range) ; or use a format that gets studio RGB treatment in vegas to prevent the clippping

Y 16-235 get "mapped" to RGB 0-255 - it's a "Computer range RGB" conversion in vegas for huffyuv. So you lose 0-15, 17-255.

Then opened it in Hybrid and the media info tab in Hybrid showing it a 4:2:2 Huff or Lagrith 8bit YUV file, is media info misreading the colorspace in Hybrid?

They are probably reading the exported file pixel format correctly.

That means if Huff is chosen in Hybrid I will not need to set the bite it will calculate it automatically?

Yes

[rgr]

Vegas internally works in RGB. Exporting 8bit YUV is technically lossy

Importing most "lossless" YUV codecs such as huffyuv 4:2:2 into vegas is lossy. Especially be aware of clipping highlights, you need to recover them in YUV (bring to legal range) ; or use a format that gets studio RGB treatment in vegas.

Y 16-235 get "mapped" to RGB 0-255 - it's a "Computer range RGB" conversion in vegas for huffyuv. So you lose 0-15, 17-255.

In Vegas you can set whether the source file is full range or limited, but I don't know if this option works for AVI. For MOV/MP4 yes, for MPG -- no.

[poisondeathray]

Vegas internally works in RGB. Exporting 8bit YUV is technically lossy

Importing most "lossless" YUV codecs such as huffyuv 4:2:2 into vegas is lossy. Especially be aware of clipping highlights, you need to recover them in YUV (bring to legal range) ; or use a format that gets studio RGB treatment in vegas.

Y 16-235 get "mapped" to RGB 0-255 - it's a "Computer range RGB" conversion in vegas for huffyuv. So you lose 0-15, 17-255.

In Vegas you can set whether the source file is full range or limited, but I don't know if this option works for AVI. For MOV/MP4 yes, for MPG -- no.

Yes, for newer Magix versions there are more options;

Regardless, YUV "lossless" codecs such as huffyuv, lagarith , ut video, etc... still get clipped in newer Magix versions. They get converted to RGB upon import immediately and clipped before you can do anything or interpret anything.

[VHSvideocapture]

[QUOTE=poisondeathray;2733551]
Vegas internally works in RGB. Exporting 8bit YUV is technically lossy.

Importing most "lossless" YUV codecs such as huffyuv 4:2:2 into vegas is lossy.[\QUOTE]

I need to learn more about this because I thought exporting it YUV2 would encode it YUV2
Why would it not if it says it would? Please tell me how to export correctly.

Especially be aware of clipping highlights, you need to recover them in YUV (bring to legal range) ; or use a format that gets studio RGB treatment in vegas to prevent the clippping

Y 16-235 get "mapped" to RGB 0-255 - it's a "Computer range RGB" conversion in vegas for huffyuv. So you lose 0-15, 17-255.

I was exporting lossless to clean up with Hybrid but I have de-interlaced in vegas and exported.h264 but the de-interlacing isn't that good in Vegas moviestudio.

[QUOTE=poisondeathray;2733551]
They are probably reading the exported file pixel format correctly.
[\QUOTE]

As a non technical person if something is showing as YUV2 in another software then it is YUV2.

[VHSvideocapture]

Vegas internally works in RGB. Exporting 8bit YUV is technically lossy

In Vegas you can set whether the source file is full range or limited, but I don't know if this option works for AVI. For MOV/MP4 yes, for MPG -- no.

What is the solution if I want to export Huffyuv from Vegas in YUV2?.

What would I need to do for it to export correctly in YUV2? If it's not possible please give me a solution because I want to work with Vegas movie studio it has a very easy interface.

[Alwyn]

I have basic colour correction plug ins for VD that work with the 32bit version of VD but I can't save them in the plugs folder of VD because my PC is windows 64 bit

It doesn't matter what your Windows OS is. Windows 64bit will run VDub32 happily. The critical issue is the bitness of the VDub you're using. You need 32bit filters for the 32bit version and 64bit filters for the 64bit version.

The advantage of the 64bit version of VDub is that it has available much more memory so if you're doing really exotic things with your video, eg AVISynth, you are much less likely to have a out of memory VDub crash.

What plugins are you talking about?

[sophisticles]

If I may chime in, I would skip the lossless altogether, capture to DNxHR HQ, even professionals don't work with lossless.

Many professional cameras record in both RAW and ProRes, and ProRes is what is sent out to the editors, but those editors are using Macs.

Read the articles I link to at the end, it changed my work flow, simplified it and really sped things up.

Bottom line is the OP needs to simplify his workflow.

https://blog.frame.io/2017/02/15/choose-the-right-codec/

https://blog.frame.io/2017/08/07/prores-on-windows/

https://blog.frame.io/2017/02/13/compare-50-intermediate-codecs/

[poisondeathray]

I need to learn more about this because I thought exporting it YUV2 would encode it YUV2

Sure, but exporting a certain format does not mean there might be other problems upstream

Generally, the whole point of using a "lossless" codec for workflows is... to prevent loss. If the workflow is not lossless, then using a "lossless" codec is kind of pointless. There are other types of lossess besides lossy compression

What format are you importing into vegas ?

Everything is interlaced
Virtuldub lossless capture - interlaced saved as lossless avi goes into Vegas for clean up grading and de noise interlaced

If it's YUV 422 huffyuv import into vegas, it's potentially a problem - clipping

There are other losses from the colorspace conversions and rounding errors , but those are minimal - but technically still loss

[sophisticles]

I need to learn more about this because I thought exporting it YUV2 would encode it YUV2
Why would it not if it says it would?

I know it's a bit confusing, but take Handbrake as an example. assume you have a 10-bit 4:2:0 source, you ingest it into Handbrake and choose a 10-bit output, encode, and you will end up with a 10-bit output.

Same scenario, this time you do some filtering in Handbrake and choose to encode to a 10-bit output. You still end up with a 10-bit encode but internally the filters are only 8-bit, meaning the processing pipeline reduced the processing precision to 8-bit during the filtering process then increased it to 10-bits for the encode.

Vegas seems to be doing something similar, which is why it's not really used for major productions, I can only find 10 titles were it was used:

https://shotonwhat.com/editing-systems/sony-vegas-editing

Meanwhile I can find 54 for Lightworks and they are significantly more well known titles:

https://shotonwhat.com/editing-systems/lightworks-editing

Final Cut has 193:

https://shotonwhat.com/editing-systems/final-cut-pro-editing

Premiere has 127:

https://shotonwhat.com/editing-systems/adobe-premiere-editing

Avid has 365:

https://shotonwhat.com/editing-systems/avid-editing

While your at it, give Shotcut a try, see if that works for you.

[Alwyn]

assume you have a 10-bit 4:2:0 source

They've got 8bit 4:2:2. Is it even possible to capture VHS with consumer gear into DNxHR HQ?