AmaRecTV capturing at 28.99i?

[Fedex]

It's been a month since i can't record in 29.97i in AmaRec. I can record 25 perfectly but not 29.97. The little info tab below says "Video[720x480 28.99i]" and when you record an AVI file you can see some frame jitter/skipping. I've tried redownloading AmaRec, deleting the .ini config file, i've tried other capture cards. All the same. Anyone else has had this issue or knows how to fix it? Something tells me it's something maybe registry related or some external settings, but as i do not know where AmaRec registry entries are, i can't do anything about it. Thanks in advance.

[DB83]

Well it appears that Argentina used the PAL tv standard so 25 fps is to be expected.
So why are you trying 29.97 ? Unless you have an NTSC tape with playback as PAL60 and not all capture cards support that.

[Fedex]

Well it appears that Argentina used the PAL tv standard so 25 fps is to be expected.
So why are you trying 29.97 ? Unless you have an NTSC tape with playback as PAL60 and not all capture cards support that.

I'm capturing an imported NTSC game console, that's why i'm using NTSC-M. I've tried PAL game systems and the jitter problem does not seem to appear however, i tried a second NTSC console and it does the same, along with some NTSC VHS tapes.

[Fedex]

By the way it seems that if i use progressive 59.94p (HDMI/component capture card) i get 58.99p which is very weird.

[DB83]

OK. There are some issues.

Now I might be way off the mark but I think of how the console would output a signal for display.


I expect a PAL VCR sends a NTSC signal to a PAL tv via PAL60 (I chose PAL tv given that the tv system was PAL)


Could there, equally, be an output setting on the console that sends a NTSC signal to a PAL display ?


So do check your output settings on the console. And if, as you say, that an NTSC video has the same issues then I do suspect that your capture device does not support PAL60.


And, by the way, what capture devices are you using ?

[oln]

Do you get the same thing if you use virtualdub or other capture applications?

There are some component/hdmi devices that only do 30/60 instead of 29.97/59.94 afaik (the ExtremeCap U3 - CV710 seems to do that) but never heard of being stuck at 28.99.

Is it the framerate in the settings that is 28.99 or is it what's reported when capturing?
The earlier game consoles tended to output non-standard video with slightly off framerates which not all capture devices handle well (same with vcr menus, and output from videocassettes will also not be super stable), so if you want to isolate the problem it's best to test with something with stable output like a dvd player.

[Fedex]

OK. There are some issues.

Now I might be way off the mark but I think of how the console would output a signal for display.


I expect a PAL VCR sends a NTSC signal to a PAL tv via PAL60 (I chose PAL tv given that the tv system was PAL)


Could there, equally, be an output setting on the console that sends a NTSC signal to a PAL display ?


So do check your output settings on the console. And if, as you say, that an NTSC video has the same issues then I do suspect that your capture device does not support PAL60.


And, by the way, what capture devices are you using ?

First off, here VCRs have either mode for PAL-60 (NTSC Playback on PAL TV) or straight untouched NTSC output (what i'm using right now). Second thing, the console was imported from the US so there is definitely no PAL-60 output. Just NTSC 480i for composite or 480p for component.

The capture cards i tried were the Pinnacle Moviebox 710-USB, EasyCap DC60, an Encore ENUTV-3 TV tuner, and a StarTech USB3HDCAP.

[Fedex]

Do you get the same thing if you use virtualdub or other capture applications?

There are some component/hdmi devices that only do 30/60 instead of 29.97/59.94 afaik (the ExtremeCap U3 - CV710 seems to do that) but never heard of being stuck at 28.99.

Is it the framerate in the settings that is 28.99 or is it what's reported when capturing?
The earlier game consoles tended to output non-standard video with slightly off framerates which not all capture devices handle well (same with vcr menus, and output from videocassettes will also not be super stable), so if you want to isolate the problem it's best to test with something with stable output like a dvd player.

VirtualDub and OBS work fine and record the real framerate. Just that i can't really use VDub because of small preview and OBS because of bad deinterlacing.

I know for a fact that my component capture device does 29.97/59.94 as it works with VDub.

The framerate in the settings shows 29.97 but AmaRec reports 28.99i.
I doubt my game console is outputing anything weird since it's a Wii and came out in 2006 so basically the whole signal is generated digitally. I have tried a DVD player too and the same problem appears.

[DB83]

If you really are deinterlacing during capture you can expect issue. Deinterlacing should be done post capture. End of.

Now there are many vcrs that can record/playback both NTSC and PAL. But ALL are high-end and hardly for basic consumers and even then a basic consumer would not acquire a NTSC vcr when the incoming signal is PAL. But even then if your vcr outputs pure NTSC there is no obvious reason why it should not output pure NTSC at capture level.


So at the very least forget about deinterlacing at capture and then check frame-rate.


Finally, I have no experience with game consoles. It is mentioned that frame rate could be non-standard. What then should you expect.

[Fedex]

If you really are deinterlacing during capture you can expect issue. Deinterlacing should be done post capture. End of.

Now there are many vcrs that can record/playback both NTSC and PAL. But ALL are high-end and hardly for basic consumers and even then a basic consumer would not acquire a NTSC vcr when the incoming signal is PAL. But even then if your vcr outputs pure NTSC there is no obvious reason why it should not output pure NTSC at capture level.


So at the very least forget about deinterlacing at capture and then check frame-rate.


Finally, I have no experience with game consoles. It is mentioned that frame rate could be non-standard. What then should you expect.

I'm not deinterlacing at capture. Also here in Argentina almost all VCRs have NTSC recording and playback (on PAL TVs and also true NTSC out) since many prerecorded VHS tapes here were imported from north America. I have also tried with a DVD player too which should be exactly 29.97i. Everything here is outputing pure NTSC, it's a problem with AmaRec itself not any of my devices.

[Fedex]

Anyone?

[lollo]

Did you try to set framerate in AmarectTV to "999" fps, which means the framerate of the capture card is applied?

[DB83]

I guess not.

If ANYONE had an issue with pure NTSC output to amarectv it would be reported by now.


But allow me to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow you to quote make+model of your vcr that can output both pure PAL and pure ntsc.


For my part, I have not checked ANY of your capture devices for PAL60 campatablity. But I will do so on receipt of the answer to the above.


But maybe we should also extend the Q. to your game consoles. Most, AFAIK, originated from Japan which is NOT NTSC-M. But there surely would be an output setting to ensure output even on a PAL system. Even then a PAL60 or equivalent.


And, with the greatest respect, no profficient workmen would blame his 'tools'.


TBH Your initial comments are some what vague. Better to provide screencaps of each stage to the capture process especially that on-screen msg in you initial post.

[Fedex]

Did you try to set framerate in AmarectTV to "999" fps, which means the framerate of the capture card is applied?

Yeah i have tried setting the fps to 999 but still the same.

[Fedex]

I guess not.

If ANYONE had an issue with pure NTSC output to amarectv it would be reported by now.


But allow me to give you the benefit of the doubt and allow you to quote make+model of your vcr that can output both pure PAL and pure ntsc.


For my part, I have not checked ANY of your capture devices for PAL60 campatablity. But I will do so on receipt of the answer to the above.


But maybe we should also extend the Q. to your game consoles. Most, AFAIK, originated from Japan which is NOT NTSC-M. But there surely would be an output setting to ensure output even on a PAL system. Even then a PAL60 or equivalent.


And, with the greatest respect, no profficient workmen would blame his 'tools'.


TBH Your initial comments are some what vague. Better to provide screencaps of each stage to the capture process especially that on-screen msg in you initial post.

My VCR is a Panasonic NV-HV60 (Latin American model). It has a setting in the menu for NTSC playback. You can set it to PAL-N (it outputs PAL-60 when you put an NTSC tape), or you can set it to NTSC (pure NTSC output when you put in an NTSC tape).

I know for a fact this console is NTSC-M since it was sold in the United States. Also my cards to have an NTSC-J option, but setting it to that just gives me a black and white picture so i'm very sure it is NTSC-M

Here are some screenshots.

Here is the capture card selection/standard selection. I have it set to 720x480 at 29.97i. I also have the capture card set to NTSC-M.

[Attachment 76950 - Click to enlarge]

But as you can see in the "Video" section below the capture preview (which i assume is what the program is telling the card to output) it says 720x480 at 28.99p.


[Attachment 76952 - Click to enlarge]

And once you start recording, it makes a 29.97i AVI file, but there are frame drops/skips. You can notice it more on things like scrolling text or slow moving objects.

[DB83]

Well. Not wishing to argue that vcr was sold everywhere.

The only manual what I can find states playback:-


1. NTSC on PAL tv
2. NTSC 4.43
3. NTSC 3.58


If there is not an auto setting I would select, if you did not already, 3.58


But do also upload a small sample of your recording just in case you are simply being mis-informed.

[oln]

All analog composite 525-line systems other than the original old 525-line black and white standard (which isn't relevant unless you have an ancient open reel b/w VTR), whether it's NTSC-M, NTSC-J, NTSC 4.43, PAL-60, PAL-M are 29.97 fps, it won't matter what the vcr or game console is set to.

There are different variants of the NV-HV60 depending on region, signified by the last two letters, you're probably reading the manual for a different one than the one with PAL-N support sold in regions of latin america where that was relevant.

[DB83]

OK. But with the greatest respect, Argentina is NOT in Latin America.

I aleady mentioned that Argentina used PAL-N (25fps) as opposed to NTSC-M(29.97)


But I would be obliged to see the relevant page of the actual manual that would confirm that NTSC 3.58 is attainable rather than PAL60

[Bwaak]

When I import using AmarecTV, reported frame rate fluctuates between 29.xx and 30.xx (don't remember seeing 28.xx).

[BW37]

Off topic, and with equal respect, but…

OK. But with the greatest respect, Argentina is NOT in Latin America.

Made me look up what “Latin America” actually means and from where the term derives.
I’d say Wikipedia disagrees.

[dellsam34]

I think the OP should stick to one source only until his AmarecTV problem is fixed, changing sources only complicates the matter, Stick to the WII console with pure NTSC output until someone helps figure it out.

[DB83]

But isn't the console also part of the problem @ pure NTSC output ?

[dellsam34]

What's wrong with pure NTSC? if that's what he wanted to capture, this is the right way to do it. Once it's a digital file, color standard compatibility no longer matter. But we know what his problem is, He can't get AmarecTV to capture pure NTSC framerate, it's in the first post.

[DB83]

Maybe I misread your remarks. But the way I read it is that you want the OP to stick with a source that is also not working (except with vdub or obs) as expected regardless of color standard.

Yet I would still appreciate a sample video of the amarec capture since I guess that noone else have such an issue with NTSC

[Fedex]

OK. But with the greatest respect, Argentina is NOT in Latin America.

I aleady mentioned that Argentina used PAL-N (25fps) as opposed to NTSC-M(29.97)


But I would be obliged to see the relevant page of the actual manual that would confirm that NTSC 3.58 is attainable rather than PAL60

I have the manual myself. I will look and see if it mentions NTSC. But as i've already said, it outputs pure NTSC since my capture devices recognize it as NTSC-M.

[Fedex]

Maybe I misread your remarks. But the way I read it is that you want the OP to stick with a source that is also not working (except with vdub or obs) as expected regardless of color standard.

Yet I would still appreciate a sample video of the amarec capture since I guess that noone else have such an issue with NTSC

The issue is with the software, not any of my sources. I will now record a sample from the Wii so you can see.

[Fedex]

OK. But with the greatest respect, Argentina is NOT in Latin America.

I aleady mentioned that Argentina used PAL-N (25fps) as opposed to NTSC-M(29.97)


But I would be obliged to see the relevant page of the actual manual that would confirm that NTSC 3.58 is attainable rather than PAL60

[Attachment 76958 - Click to enlarge]

So basically:

NTSC: When playing an NTSC tape on an NTSC TV.

PAL-N: When playing an NTSC tape on a PAL-N TV.

This proves my point that the VCR does output pure NTSC signal as most if not all in argentina did.

[Fedex]

Maybe I misread your remarks. But the way I read it is that you want the OP to stick with a source that is also not working (except with vdub or obs) as expected regardless of color standard.

Yet I would still appreciate a sample video of the amarec capture since I guess that noone else have such an issue with NTSC

Here you can see that the moving background "skips" a bit from time to time, i have a TV that's connected through a passthrough as monitor and this does not happen on it. Also this doesn't happen in virtualdub. (Oh and now that i see, the AVI file is 28FPS too)

amarec(20240211-1746).avi

[dellsam34]

What screen you get when you click on device setting on the Pinnacle 700-USB?

[dellsam34]

Maybe I misread your remarks. But the way I read it is that you want the OP to stick with a source that is also not working (except with vdub or obs) as expected regardless of color standard.

It's not me wanting him to stick to it, it's him complaining that it is not working and we're trying to help him, If someone goes to a mechanic saying my car does not work, I would expect the mechanic to fix it, not telling him to use another car, Right? I don't mean to be rude, I just like to use humorous examples.