VHS Tapes with Macrovision

[Eric-jan]

Some modern capture cards like the GV-USB2 tend to ignore macrovision, at least if it's not an agressive variant. If you are lucky the tape may not cause flickering with the dvd-recorder connected in the middle either (even if it won't let you record to it directly) and you can use it to get an extra stable signal but that's not guaranteed.

One other way i noticed, is with my (euro/PAL) Panasonic DMR-ES35V capturing from the component RCA's (YUV) video output in progressive mode...

Progressive mode on these combos/dvd-recorders doesn't remove copy protection (at least not on any of the ones I've used), some capture cards like the blackmagic ones just ignore copy protection flags component input so any component output would work with the right capture card. Very bad copy protection may also screw with the brightness but that's more a disney tape thing.

Macrovision isn't in the component progressive video (yuv) video signal… you missed that i guess, it just works perfect is my experience.
(component video output was used for/with the early LCD flatscreen tv's)
You are correct if you say "any combo" because with other combo's the VHS deck does not play over the component video output, in that case only the dvd deck plays over the component video output.

@OP: i just read the manual of your dvd recorder, it has component video output too, if the RGB function on AV1 is switched off,(not selected) you can select the RCA component video output as output, and also switch it to progressive mode, if you could capture component video, you could use your dvd recorder as passthrough, so when possible, this could be worth a try… or just listen to the naysayers….

btw. the manual i found is for your Pioneer recorder is the PAL/SCART version, PAL was also used in Israel, my question now, is the vcr also bought in Israel ?
or was it bought through the internet ? and could it be an NTSC model ? if in working condition….

[Subtitles]

@Eric-jan Thanks for your message.
Both the Pioneer DVR and the Sony VCR were purchased locally.
At the moment the VCR needs servicing and unfortunately I can't test anything until it is fixed which is not going to be any time soon.

[Eric-jan]

@Eric-jan Thanks for your message.
Both the Pioneer DVR and the Sony VCR were purchased locally.
At the moment the VCR needs servicing and unfortunately I can't test anything until it is fixed which is not going to be any time soon.

also… like they say: don't put all your money on one horse, are there any thriftstores or secondhand stores in your neighbourhood ?
or ask around… repairs can be more expensive if you don't do it yourself.
Over the years there where many different recorders or combo's each with their own unique features, it's just what you can get hold of, places like the USA you can get more easily get hold of a TBC, i don't think that's an option for you in Israel, an other option might also be with converters, and than use a PCIe HDMI card to bring the video into the computer, some cheap chinees converters might work by incident, but prosumer stuff works better,
HDMI on consumer media equipment is protected by HDCP, the cheap china stuff can defeat that, but is hit or mis and you need to know of exact user cases.

[lordsmurf]

you can get more easily get hold of a TBC, i don't think that's an option for you in Israel,

No, it's definitely possible in Israel. Either ordering online (easy), or searching local (not easy, but possible).

[themaster1]

local audio/ video companies allow you to rent their decks/gear, that's an option

[oln]

Macrovision isn't in the component progressive video (yuv) video signal… you missed that i guess, it just works perfect is my experience.

That's not true though, I don't have a ES35 specifically but my ES30 and my standalone panasonics, and my pioneer dvd-recorders all put copy protection on the component output if they detect macrovision on the input (or dvd playback). The video feed on my avermedia capture card pops up a copy protected message if I try that, regardless of if I use progressive scan mode or not. The blackmagic intensity shuttle we had at my old job never reacted to this when using it with the component out from dvd-recorders even when passing through tapes that had MV or playing dvds in them so I assume it just ignores the presence of copy protection on the component inputs.

Copy protection on component video is definetly a thing - see e.g the datasheet for this component/RGB only video decoder
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/isl98002-datasheet

[Eric-jan]

Macrovision isn't in the component progressive video (yuv) video signal… you missed that i guess, it just works perfect is my experience.

That's not true though, I don't have a ES35 specifically but my ES30 and my standalone panasonics, and my pioneer dvd-recorders all put copy protection on the component output if they detect macrovision on the input (or dvd playback). The video feed on my avermedia capture card pops up a copy protected message if I try that, regardless of if I use progressive scan mode or not. The blackmagic intensity shuttle we had at my old job never reacted to this when using it with the component out from dvd-recorders even when passing through tapes that had MV or playing dvds in them so I assume it just ignores the presence of copy protection on the component inputs.

Copy protection on component video is definetly a thing - see e.g the datasheet for this component/RGB only video decoder
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/isl98002-datasheet

Please, re-read my posts, i'm not using the ES30, or some of the things you added are not valid for the case scenario of mine, the things i mention, work for the tapes i had that have Macrovision, i only sugest to the OP that it is worth a try with the recorder he has, (and a good working vcr due time), i offered (PM) to transfer the tapes for free, since he did not want the tapes back afther that, but even that is too costly, (postage) and is not high on his priority list for the moment.

btw i also have a cheap component to HDMI converter and works both with that on Atomos Ninja V and BMD Video Assist.

[oln]

I'm not saying what you are doing is not working. I'm saying I think that you are wrong about why it works. It likely works because the blackmagic and many other devices seem to ignore copy protection on component. I can't 100% verify since I don't have the exact model you have but the panasonics I have do output copy protection on the component outputs whether or not progressive mode is enabled if they detect macrovision in the input. My avermedia capture cards cares about this and refuses to show an image if it detects it, but the blackmagic intensity shuttle card at my old job did not, and these cheap converters probably don't either.

[Eric-jan]

BlackMagicDesign is very strict about mentioning defeating copyprotection, i once did, and they let me clearly know this ! (when i mentioned it in their forum)
Since i have also a Ninja V, i will in due time, use it's scope function to look at the video signal, i guess this would be possible in this manner, i can check this for both converters, the nice thing of my cheap converter is, that it doesn't stretches the aspect ratio, which other cheap ones do.

"I like to play with things a while ……." (Emperor Ming quote)

[DB83]

For the record, I also offered via PM to transfer his VHS and had the same cost-effective reply.

But it goes beyond this.


Read back and it is my belief that at least one of his VHS is NTSC. My own PAL macrovision tapes would capture yet the one NTSC I tested - captured via PAL 60 - would not.


And if you, with the greatest of respect to the OP, read his other threads, his VCR requires somewhat more that 'servicing'. Dust in the unit could have corrupted the tape he put in (although he did not make clear if this was one of the MV ones). He even offered to send me a tape F.O.C. that he no longer wanted to capture. But after reading his issues I declined the offer. 1 since this was not a subject that interested me and 2. if it was 'contaminated' it could very well affect my own VCR ( I had some tapes many years ago and it took a very 'clean' tape to get the that VCR working again)

[Eric-jan]

Well i "closed this chapter" too, because there is just no point to it, in other groups i see this also, people that just made an account, one reply, and you hear nothing again,
NTSC or PAL is no problem for me both i can play, without that it becomes a sub-system, (i guess the non france SECAM becomes PAL through the vcr's that can handle that) also have some donor vcr's for dirty/damaged tapes,
People who are new to analog conversion have no idea, what it really means, there are so many things that depend on it, the hardware, every piece of software or firmware that's involved, the interface and speed of it, chip sets, RAM(system memory) the right combination makes a steady setup, but any upgrade/update can destroy this,
Details matter, i see people make mistakes with the Thunderbolt interface, the connector looks the same, but what it puts through can be very different,
32 and 64 operating systems is also a thing some programs don't get updates for it, some capture devices just are not supported any more even by the manufactor ! sad to say, that's also the case for a company like Black Magic Design.
One should make some effort, and with that comes the experience (i hope) to come further, keep a working setup, be careful with updates, i have 1 laptop,
that i just don't update/upgrade because of that, the other ones i can, as far the hardware alows...

[DB83]

^^ And what does this 'rant' have to do with this topic ?

[Eric-jan]

^^ And what does this 'rant' have to do with this topic ?

Everything…. because allmost all options mentioned in the replies, are not cheap enough for the OP.
and there was a good response on his less/minimal detalled question. correct me if i'm wrong.

[DB83]

Tis obvious that your words were lost in translation.

But the whole issue is not going anywhere unless the OP can get his VCR fixed or even cut his losses and outsource another (Hard enough to find a 'good' one in Europe). And noone know the market in the OP's homeland. And what he has said either in another topic or by PM, although he states he acquired the VCR locally, it was imported and with heavy import duties.


Little point in continuing the discussion until we hear from the OP again.

[lojelo5]

If the YouTube video I posted back here is the exact same video then personally I wouldn't even bother wasting any time and money trying to copy it just watch the YouTube video much less time consuming and saves money.

[DB83]

Go back in the topic and you will see the cover that the OP posted. Same Opera - different performance. And he already mentioned that he could get dvds of other performances for these operas. And there are also other online sources.

[lojelo5]

Sorry I thought it was the Stuttgart show I put up this must be the one then

https://www.operaonvideo.com/der-freischutz-stuttgart-1981-kramer-ligendza-probst/

You can grab it using IDM
https://my.mail.ru/list/romankova.larisa/video/_myvideo/4054.html?from=videoplayer

[DB83]

^^ Looks like the one. (Strange that I did not find it when I searched that site which I have used)

I suggest you PM the OP just in case he does not find your post.

[Eric-jan]

[Attachment 76761 - Click to enlarge]I downloaded this one,(using Uniconverter) and the end credits show that it is a (tv) ZDF/ORF production, so that could also be a source.

Oh. And look at the cover and especially the back.

Do you see "CP" there ?

Here is a sample of one of the VHS tapes. I don't see CP on the back.
I will try to hook up the VCR next week and try again to record with the DVR. I am waiting for a replacement remote hopefully it will arrive soon.

[Attachment 76762 - Click to enlarge]
Looks like that upload is a NTSC capture…. not PAL…

also it looks like it comes from a German webstream LB BW is a commercial for a German bank company. (why it's in NTSC i don't understand…)

[lojelo5]

I will put this link in here for the mp4 download just in case he doesn't use IDM, I will also message the op.

https://1fichier.com/?0891y2uwrvcvd1fvdlpc

@ DB83

I shortened my search to Der Freischütz Stuttgart 1981 mp4 and it popped up straight away.

[lordsmurf]

If the YouTube video I posted back here is the exact same video then personally I wouldn't even bother wasting any time and money trying to copy it just watch the YouTube video much less time consuming and saves money.

That Youtube conversion is super shitty. Composite-blurry badly-deinterlaced mess. I refuse to insult my eyes trying to watch awful conversions like that. I'll just find something else better, something worthy of my time.

[lojelo5]

@lordsmurf

I didn't say it was a good version but if the op can't afford to buy the DVD of can't get another VCR then that crappy version is better than nothing if the op just wants to watch it for nostalgia reasons.

[DB83]

Looks like that upload is a NTSC capture…. not PAL…

also it looks like it comes from a German webstream LB BW is a commercial for a German bank company. (why it's in NTSC i don't understand…)

Well if it is NTSC it merely backs up what I said way back in this topic.


The upload could well have been the dvd version - it is NOT unknown for European releases to be issued on NTSC dvd (increases the market since, as you know, NTSC dvd Region 0, will play on NTSC decks). And I equally suspect, due to the releasing company, that the VHS was also NTSC even with a BBFC certification symbol. Again, not an issue for a PAL VCR but could be an issue for a tape with MV at capture.


But the OP will now have a reasonable version of this performance and he might well find the others on this expansive site.

[DB83]

I will put this link in here for the mp4 download just in case he doesn't use IDM, I will also message the op.

https://1fichier.com/?0891y2uwrvcvd1fvdlpc

@ DB83

I shortened my search to Der Freischütz Stuttgart 1981 mp4 and it popped up straight away.

That's fine. Be aware though that if you do not have a full account that link will expire within 15-30 days with no activity.

[lojelo5]

That's fine. Be aware though that if you do not have a full account that link will expire within 15-30 days with no activity.

That isn't a problem I have a full account I set it to 30 days if the op misses it and it expires I will just upload it again or just remote upload the link which will last for another 30 days after.

[Anonymous84]

--

[Subtitles]

Thanks guys for all your help. I really appreciate your time and sorry for not responding earlier.
I can't test the VHS cassettes until I have a working VCR. There was a good offer but in a different town and the weather hasn't been good recently so I missed that.
A combo LG DVIX8816W with DVD not working and no remote but the VCR works according to the seller. Will try harder.
Thanks again.

[Subtitles]

I have several purchased VHS tapes of operas that have Macrovision. Is there a cheap way to copy the tapes to my Pioneer DVR-540H-S before I throw them all into the dustbin?

If you want to throw something to bin that will be worth plenty in future as collectible, then go ahead.
A lot of items from previous decades now get priced highly on auctions because they are very rare.

Yes I read about that in an article in the Washington Post. If a manufacturer in China can make a VCR with only play (no need to record with a VCR these days), they might find a good demand for this unit in the coming years.
Alright I will not throw the cassettes in the bin yet.

[Eric-jan]

I have several purchased VHS tapes of operas that have Macrovision. Is there a cheap way to copy the tapes to my Pioneer DVR-540H-S before I throw them all into the dustbin?

If you want to throw something to bin that will be worth plenty in future as collectible, then go ahead.
A lot of items from previous decades now get priced highly on auctions because they are very rare.

Yes I read about that in an article in the Washington Post. If a manufacturer in China can make a VCR with only play (no need to record with a VCR these days), they might find a good demand for this unit in the coming years.
Alright I will not throw the cassettes in the bin yet.

? would it have a TBC ? if not, one can only suspect that it will cause more problems, with even more people who don't know how to handle that.
VHS stays a niche.

[dellsam34]

There is no demand for VCRs, Just because you see few people posting about VCR inquiries here doesn't mean they are in thousands, We are like a drop of water in the ocean. True that high prices of anything is due to either high demand or dwindling supply, In this case it is a dwindling supply.