Capturing Mini DV from Canon HV20

[njsteve]

I thought it best to make a new thread.

I can import my mini HD tapes but I haven't found a solution for the DV tapes which seem to be the bulk of my 17 tapes.

When I put in a tape that was recorded in DV it shows up under "imaging devices". I did some searching and it seems this might be normal but I'm not sure. When the HV20 has an HD tape it shows up under "Sound video and game controllers".

WinDV can't even see the HV20. It only sees it when it is showing up under "Sound video and game controllers" which only happens with HD tapes - catch 22.

Sclive doesn't list the HV20 when but I was able to connect to the camera using "Microsoft DV Camera and VCR". I tried capturing some video and the quality was terrible and not useable.

I would gladly purchase a device that would do this for me.

I had emailed ClearClick asking if they had a product that would handle my mini dv tapes and they suggested this one:

https://www.clearclick.com/collections/our-products/products/hd-video-capture-box-ulti...-video-sources

I used ElGato for all my VHS and VHS-C tapes and that worked so well for me. I would gladly pay $250 if the clearclick device would work for me.

I'm even considering just using the Elgato and be done with this. It did produce a halfway decent 1 GB mp4. It wasn't terrible. Definitely not as good as the 3 GB file I created on my own using HDVsplit but it was a lot easier. I just hit play and walked away.

The thing is, after I do all this work, will we really watch all of this footage? Will our children watch it one day in the future with their kids? Maybe. Will the 1 GB Elgato mp4 files suffice? I'm starting to think so. But that 3 GB mp4 I was able to produce was a lot better...

I would appreciate some guidance here. I just want get these 17 tapes imported and be done with this.

[DB83]

Not sure whether you really need a new topic since you could well have added your new comments in the last one. And Admin are not very happy with such an approach.

Still. Forget the Clearclick. Do they really know what DV is ?. A totally inappropiate load of junk in my opinion. You would be better off using the Elgato and an analog connection from the camcorder.


Rather surprised by your comment about the DV transfer with SCLive. I would suggest you upload a sample of that video so we can assess what is wrong

[Alwyn]

@njsteve, extra comments:

Sclive doesn't list the HV20 when but I was able to connect to the camera using "Microsoft DV Camera and VCR".

That's what my guide says.

I tried capturing some video and the quality was terrible and not useable.

This shouldn't be the case. The quality, even for DV, will be very good. It won't be as good as HDV but it will still be better than the VHS captures you were doing.

I'm even considering just using the Elgato and be done with this. It did produce a halfway decent 1 GB mp4.

The Clearclick isn't recommended by others on this site. If you could get that Elgato to capture at higher quality, say 3GB per hour, you'd have a reasonable-quality file.

I know it could be painful, but can you detail exactly the steps you are taking, cabling included? There's something fundamentally wrong somewhere at the moment. It is clear you have a working Firewire connection, you can control your HV20 with Scenalyzer and you're getting some video from it.

Another more drastic option, if you are certain the tapes are DV-format (not HDV-format) is to source another MiniDV camcorder to do the transfer (or even a specific Panasonic MiniDV camcorder to transfer via USB). I have details here (scroll down to "DV over USB").

The thing is, after I do all this work, will we really watch all of this footage? Will our children watch it one day in the future with their kids? Maybe.

I hear ya!

But that 3 GB mp4 I was able to produce was a lot better...

I think I asked on one of your other topics: how did you generate that MP4? Was it from your VHS captures or your HDV files?

[njsteve]

Not sure whether you really need a new topic since you could well have added your new comments in the last one. And Admin are not very happy with such an approach.

Still. Forget the Clearclick. Do they really know what DV is ?. A totally inappropiate load of junk in my opinion. You would be better off using the Elgato and an analog connection from the camcorder.


Rather surprised by your comment about the DV transfer with SCLive. I would suggest you upload a sample of that video so we can assess what is wrong

I have to take that back. It seems about the same as displaying direct from the camcorder. It seems to flash "Screenalyzer Live" every now and then. Also, even forcing to full screen from my Macbook the displayed video was not full screeen. It had two black rectangles on the side of the frame. This is not the case when I view direct from the HV20 to the TV.

It is also splitting the captured video into many separate files just like HDVSplit did with the HD tape. Easy enough to deal with but some of those avi files had problems. One of them had still video but the audio indicated the video should have been continuing.

Is there a way to get it to not flash "Screenalyzer Live" and also to get it to be full screen without the cropping on the sides?

[njsteve]

@njsteve, extra comments:
I think I asked on one of your other topics: how did you generate that MP4? Was it from your VHS captures or your HDV files?

The one good mp4 I produced was from an HD tape. I used HDVSplit and it produced a bunch of .m2t files which I merged and converted into an mp4 using Moavi video converter. If only all my tapes were HD. I have no idea why so many of them are DV. I accidentally hit record on one of those DV tapes and the 10 seconds that I recorded came out in HD. I don't remember ever messing with any of the settings.

[Alwyn]

The one good mp4 I produced was from an HD tape. I used HDVSplit and it produced a bunch of .m2t files which I merged and converted into an mp4 using Moavi video converter.

Arr yes, I remember now. Thanks.

Is there a way to get it to not flash "Screenalyzer Live"

Yes. Register it. Don't worry, you haven't been a very naughty boy, it's free now. Use the licence number from the “Licence.txt” file in the zipped folder that contained the EXE file. Help>Enter Registration key.

Is there a way to get it to ... be full screen without the cropping on the sides?

Also, even forcing to full screen from my Macbook the displayed video was not full screeen

Macbook? Eeek! How is a Mac involved?

Firstly, is it actually being cropped? If the video is 4:3 and you're playing it on a 16:9 monitor/software player, you'll have black side bars even though there is no video there. But you say that there are no black side bars when viewed on the TV. Is the video stretched on the TV? Another check is in the Scenalyzer monitor. That will show whether it was filmed in widescreen (16:9) or normal, 4:3.

Could you open one of your DV files in Mediainfo, go to the View>Text mode, and copy that whole page text and paste it here.

Also, to second DB83's suggestion, please attach a short DV file (up to 2 minutes long) here.

I'm now convinced there is nothing wrong with your physical setup; it's only finger-trouble that we're stumbling on. That's not meant as a criticism.

[njsteve]

The one good mp4 I produced was from an HD tape. I used HDVSplit and it produced a bunch of .m2t files which I merged and converted into an mp4 using Moavi video converter.

Arr yes, I remember now. Thanks.

Is there a way to get it to not flash "Screenalyzer Live"

Yes. Register it. Don't worry, you haven't been a very naughty boy, it's free now. Use the licence number from the “Licence.txt” file in the zipped folder that contained the EXE file. Help>Enter Registration key.

Is there a way to get it to ... be full screen without the cropping on the sides?

Also, even forcing to full screen from my Macbook the displayed video was not full screeen

Macbook? Eeek! How is a Mac involved?

Firstly, is it actually being cropped? If the video is 4:3 and you're playing it on a 16:9 monitor/software player, you'll have black side bars even though there is no video there. But you say that there are no black side bars when viewed on the TV. Is the video stretched on the TV? Another check is in the Scenalyzer monitor. That will show whether it was filmed in widescreen (16:9) or normal, 4:3.

Could you open one of your DV files in Mediainfo, go to the View>Text mode, and copy that whole page text and paste it here.

Also, to second DB83's suggestion, please attach a short DV file (up to 2 minutes long) here.

I'm now convinced there is nothing wrong with your physical setup; it's only finger-trouble that we're stumbling on. That's not meant as a criticism.

After I create the mp4 files I put them on a USB Drive which I bring upstairs and hook up to a MacBook so I can screenshare it to the Samsung SmartTV. That's where the Macbook comes into the picture.

Here is a link to an AVI file I captured : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lnzIRW-dUVXZNd1mqbt5mJEKzJDlb3P-/view?usp=sharing

Hopefully that works. I'm new to this.

And one more thing I noticed - that video that had the frame that stopped but the audio kept going was not a problem with sclive. That's the way the tape plays. I have no idea why that happened. Ghost in the machine.

I am starting to feel like I'm on the right track with the DV videos. Baby steps...

One more thing (Not sure if this belongs in a new thread but was warned about starting new threads...)

Is Moavi a good piece of software for merging and creating the mp4 files? I have a trial version and it seems to work great. Not sure what other options I have for merging .avi and .m2t files into an mp4. Moavi was also able to read a dvd my wife had that would not play on a dvd player and it produced a nice mp4 from that. So I was kind of impressed with it. I think it runs around $70.

Thanks again for the help!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Alwyn]

You've nailed it. That clip is great, and looks very much like a standard DV clip. Mediainfo shows normal DV-AVI characteristics. In VLC Player with all the sides pulled in, this is what it looks like:


[Attachment 76147 - Click to enlarge]

There are no side bars, so there's no encoded black video there, and it's a proper 4:3.

The next issue is whether you are burning black side bars into the MP4s. You shouldn't do that. Try to encode the MP4s in the 4:3 format. If your player adds black side bars, so be it. Also, on your HD/16:9 TV, those videos will also have black side bars because they are only 4:3. There's no problem with that; that's just the way SD (4:3) things are. Your VHS captures should be the same. You can stretch them to fit the TV, but then they will be noticeably distorted and look weird.

I don't know how advanced your editing skills/software is, but at least for the DV files, Scenalyzer can be used to trim the ends off, split and join the files. Or you can just drag them into your NLE for further editing.

[njsteve]

Not sure whether you really need a new topic since you could well have added your new comments in the last one. And Admin are not very happy with such an approach.

Still. Forget the Clearclick. Do they really know what DV is ?. A totally inappropiate load of junk in my opinion. You would be better off using the Elgato and an analog connection from the camcorder.


Rather surprised by your comment about the DV transfer with SCLive. I would suggest you upload a sample of that video so we can assess what is wrong

I was wrong about SCLive. The problem was on my tape. It had a few seconds of still frame for some reason and when I saw that in the avi file I thought the problem was with SCLive. My bad.

[njsteve]

You've nailed it. That clip is great, and looks very much like a standard DV clip. Mediainfo shows normal DV-AVI characteristics. In VLC Player with all the sides pulled in, this is what it looks like:


[Attachment 76147 - Click to enlarge]

There are no side bars, so there's no encoded black video there, and it's a proper 4:3.

The next issue is whether you are burning black side bars into the MP4s. You shouldn't do that. Try to encode the MP4s in the 4:3 format. If your player adds black side bars, so be it. Also, on your HD/16:9 TV, those videos will also have black side bars because they are only 4:3. There's no problem with that; that's just the way SD (4:3) things are. Your VHS captures should be the same. You can stretch them to fit the TV, but then they will be noticeably distorted and look weird.

I don't know how advanced your editing skills/software is, but at least for the DV files, Scenalyzer can be used to trim the ends off, split and join the files. Or you can just drag them into your NLE for further editing.

I would like to get the black bars off the sides for TV Viewing if possible. Viewing that same tape from the HV20 to the TV over HDMI produces a full screen video with no sidebars. Also, the HD Tape that I converted to mp4 has no side bars. I guess that's because it is not 4:3.

I guess I could try some setting on the TV to stretch it.

I tried using a "Smart Fit" option in Moavi when creating the mp4 but that didn't seem to have any effect.

[Alwyn]

The great 4:3 on a 16:9 screen conundrum. You've got two options. The below images are 16:9 screen aspect.

1. Crop off the top and/or bottom to make the frame fit into a 16:9 aspect, while maintaining the correct proportions:


[Attachment 76149 - Click to enlarge]

2. Stretch the video laterally to make it fit the 16:9 aspect but make the video objects look wider:


[Attachment 76150 - Click to enlarge]

On your TV, you should be able to achieve both options by either doing a straight Zoom or using Stretch to Fit or similar.

Option 2 is the worst because the video is distorted. Option 1 can work, and I have done it before, when there's no meaningful video at the top and the bottom.

Also, the HD Tape that I converted to mp4 has no side bars. I guess that's because it is not 4:3.

Correct. HDV is 16:9 to start with so it will fit with no bars.

[aedipuss]

both your 4:3 options are nuts and incorrect. 4:3 on a 16/9 display has to have black bars on both sides to display the entire frame correctly.

[Alwyn]

both your 4:3 options are nuts and incorrect. 4:3 on a 16/9 display has to have black bars on both sides to display the entire frame correctly.

The untouched/uncropped/unzoomed 4:3 video in the 16:9 screen is on the left side of the red line. I see "black bars on both sides to display the entire frame correctly".

What exactly is "nuts" about that? Better still, show me what it should look like if you think I have it so wrong.

[Bwaak]

Both cropping and stretching is nuts.

[lollo]

Both options are crap, leave the video as it is!

[Alwyn]

Both cropping and stretching is nuts.

njsteve wants to get rid of the black bars as clearly stated above. I am simply showing him the ways of doing that.

[Sharc]

The 2 options of post#11 are what eventually remains to meet the OP's request. Let the user decide what is "nuts" for him.

Remeber what happened when 16:9 TV was introduced? Almost everything got stretched, but people proudly demonstrated their new TV to friends

[lollo]

Both cropping and stretching is nuts.

njsteve wants to get rid of the black bars as clearly stated above. I am simply showing him the ways of doing that.

Correct, but better to tell him to don’t do it. IMO

[Bwaak]

An option to avoid black bars yet to preserve the full frame without cropping or stretching is to use blurred side pillars. When I do it I drop the same content on a track below, stretch it to fill the frame, blur it heavily, slightly desaturate and reduce brightness. I don't like this effect, but it checks all the boxes. I bet one can write a script to do this

@Sharc, I've never stretched 4:3 content on my 16:9 TV, despite that it was - and still is - a plasma panel.

[lollo]

Remeber what happened when 16:9 TV was introduced? Almost everything got stretched, but people proudly demonstrated their new TV to friends

Horror story 😄

[dellsam34]

I don't get why people are obsessed about filling up the screen? Just watch the frame the way it's supposed to look like, If a panel burn in is the worry use the TV's zoom function without destroying the original footage.

[dellsam34]

An option to avoid black bars yet to preserve the full frame without cropping or stretching is to use blurred side pillars. When I do it I drop the same content on a track below, stretch it to fill the frame, blur it heavily, slightly desaturate and reduce brightness. I don't like this effect, but it checks all the boxes. I bet one can write a script to do this

This is an option to avoid the burn-in for some panels technologies, It is not supposed to be pleasant to look at, Black edges are black for a reason, that you don't see them and your TV will act as a native 4:3 screen, Off course this can only be achieved perfectly with OLED technology where pixels in the black area are completely turned off, the irony is, that's the technology most prone to panel burn-in if used for longer periods of time.

That was another method used back in early 2000's when HD was at its early stages, Stretch the frame about 20% at each side, living about 60% in the center without stretch to give the 16/9 illusion, It some how works in steady scenes, but in panning scenes you'll see objects stretch as they move to either side of the frame.

[Alwyn]

I find it odd that people are having an apoplexy over top and bottom cropping of 4:3 when the very next year, 16:9 camcorders came put and there was no bleating about the loss of vertical area. Do you lot seriously think that the users of these camcorders made the conscious decision to shoot in 4:3 (as opposed to 16:9)? Of course not.

The 4:3 format is poxy. That is exactly why 16:9 came along. It is not a heinous crime to crop the top and bottom so that the video fills the 16:9 frame.

[Sharc]

An option to avoid black bars yet to preserve the full frame without cropping or stretching is to use blurred side pillars. When I do it I drop the same content on a track below, stretch it to fill the frame, blur it heavily, slightly desaturate and reduce brightness. I don't like this effect, but it checks all the boxes. I bet one can write a script to do this

Another variant is to stretch the picture non-linear from center to the edges. Nausea causing for panning scenes ......

[dellsam34]

Another variant is to stretch the picture non-linear from center to the edges. Nausea causing for panning scenes ......

You summarized it in less words than I did above.

[Bwaak]

I find it odd that people are having an apoplexy over top and bottom cropping of 4:3 when the very next year, 16:9 camcorders came put and there was no bleating about the loss of vertical area. Do you lot seriously think that the users of these camcorders made the conscious decision to shoot in 4:3 (as opposed to 16:9)? Of course not.

Alwyn, you keep talking in riddles. When was the "next year"? True widescreen camcorder captures more, not less. But even if you use something like the DVX100, yes you lose on sensor resolution, but you frame the picture the way you want and you fill the complete 16:9 frame, the black bars are not recorded. Obviously, choosing to shoot in 4:3 or 16:9 is an artistic choice and a conscious decision.

The 4:3 format is poxy. That is exactly why 16:9 came along. It is not a heinous crime to crop the top and bottom so that the video fills the 16:9 frame.

Poxy? I had to look it up. Tell this to those who shoot in 4:3 right now. In the last five years or so 4:3 became popular again, in particular for MVs. 16:9 came along as the AR that best accommodates the zoo of different AR from 4:3 to 2.39

I was bummed when CNN released remastered "Cold War" on DVD with everything converted to 16:9. The interview scenes benefitted because they had been shot in 16:9, but the archival footage, originally shot at 4:3, was mercilessly butchered.

[njsteve]

The great 4:3 on a 16:9 screen conundrum. You've got two options. The below images are 16:9 screen aspect.

1. Crop off the top and/or bottom to make the frame fit into a 16:9 aspect, while maintaining the correct proportions:


[Attachment 76149 - Click to enlarge]

2. Stretch the video laterally to make it fit the 16:9 aspect but make the video objects look wider:


[Attachment 76150 - Click to enlarge]

On your TV, you should be able to achieve both options by either doing a straight Zoom or using Stretch to Fit or similar.

Option 2 is the worst because the video is distorted. Option 1 can work, and I have done it before, when there's no meaningful video at the top and the bottom.

Also, the HD Tape that I converted to mp4 has no side bars. I guess that's because it is not 4:3.

Correct. HDV is 16:9 to start with so it will fit with no bars.

I decided we can live with the black bars.

Strangely when I created the final mp4 file merging all the .avi files it produced a smaller .mp4 than Elgato did.

For this tape using WindDV creted about 10 GB of AVI files that compressed down to about 750 MB with no loss of quality that I can see.

Elgato produced a 1.3 GB mp4 using the analog out to the Elgato card. Looking at both videos on the Samsung I don't see any difference in quality. The only difference is that I was able to delete some dead frames and there are no blue screens in the mp4 I created using WindDV and Moavi.

So it seems that for the DV tapes I can get away with using Elgato which is easier.

I would appreciate your thoughts on why there is no visible difference in quality between the analog and digital conversions for this tape which is a "DV" tape.

The HD Tape came out much better using HDVSplit. That one was drastic.

Thanks

[Bwaak]

I decided we can live with the black bars.

Black bars should be added by your TV set. They should not be encoded in the file.

For this tape using WindDV creted about 10 GB of AVI files that compressed down to about 750 MB with no loss of quality that I can see.

My eyesight is not as good as twenty years ago too.

Elgato produced a 1.3 GB mp4 using the analog out to the Elgato card. Looking at both videos on the Samsung I don't see any difference in quality.

If it works for you, that's all that matters (unless or until you decide to share it...). I hope that it is at least in 50p.

I would appreciate your thoughts on why there is no visible difference in quality between the analog and digital conversions for this tape which is a "DV" tape.

The difference is very small indeed. See Tape Formats Compared: How do DV formats measure up with Betacam SP and 601?. Compare "DVCAM" to "DVCAM Y/C Out"

The HD Tape came out much better using HDVSplit. That one was drastic.

Duh!

[lollo]

I find it odd that people are having an apoplexy over top and bottom cropping of 4:3 ...

Complete non sense. When talking about TV Shows, we must respect what the director wanted. In Europe we (fans) did a "revolution" when Thunderbirds was release in UK butchering the top and bottom of the frame to fit widescreen TVs, and we all bought Japanese 4:3 Blue Rays. Same when UFO was broadcasted mutilated in US HDTV (https://ufoseries.com/hdtv/). When talking about personal video, you choose what you want to be in the frame accoding to your "artistic" choise. Butchering the frame is never an option.

Alwyn, you keep talking in riddles. When was the "next year"? True widescreen camcorder captures more, not less. But even if you use something like the DVX100, yes you lose on sensor resolution, but you frame the picture the way you want and you fill the complete 16:9 frame, the black bars are not recorded. Obviously, choosing to shoot in 4:3 or 16:9 is an artistic choice and a conscious decision.

Incredible, this time I agree with Bwaak

I decided we can live with the black bars.

Nice to hear from you, good choice!

[Bwaak]

Incredible, this time I agree with Bwaak

This happens when arguing with thoughts and opinions, not with people.

@Alwyn, here is an AR 2.66 music video, would you crop it to 16:9 too?