Frame drops while recording footage from Capture Device

[maimai]

Hello everyone,
I recently got into old camcorders and quickly found out my family had quite the pile of old tapes lying around, and since I wanted to capture some own footage in the future I started researching into the digitizing process. I got a used Sony CCD-TR77E PAL Hi8 (with line TBC) camcorder for cheap off of eBay and a Hauppauge USB-Live2 from Amazon. Im currently working with my camcorder connected via SVideo, using AmaRecTV to record the footage losslessly (Lagarith) and deinterlacing and rendering in VirtualDub2 using QTGMC (x264-8bit CRF 20). Sadly I was not able to record using VirtualDub, as it only showed me a blackscreen as preview and I wasn't able to start the capture (only WDM VFW driver worked, which wasnt configurable), therefore I'm using AmaRecTV. To my disappointment however, it seems AmaRecTV drops frames while capturing. It doesn't explicitly count them as "dropped" in the bottom of the program but the fps drop, the footage is noticably stuttery and the audio goes out of sync. The included Hauppauge capture software also seems to encounter this issue, however not as glaringly as AmaRecTV. I digitized a sample clip using both AmaRecTV and the Hauppauge Capture software. After rendering they yield 38.69 and 49.04 fps respectively. Has anyone encountered a similar issue before, or any idea on why this is the case and how I could mitigate it?

I have uploaded images of my AmaRecTV configuration and resource usage while capturing here: https://imgur.com/a/qal4yZi
I've uploaded the raw and rendered video samples using both AmaRecTV and the Hauppauge Capture software here: https://workupload.com/archive/TJ367zD9Ne

Additionally this is my current hardware:
Intel i7-6800K
32GB 3200Mhz DDR4 ram
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080
Samsung SSD 870 EVO 1TB

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[davexnet]

What have you set here?

[lollo]

... therefore I'm using AmaRecTV. To my disappointment however, it seems AmaRecTV drops frames while capturing. It doesn't explicitly count them as "dropped" in the bottom of the program but the fps drop, the footage is noticably stuttery and the audio goes out of sync.

Complete nonsense.

AmarecTV reports dropped frames in its log files. Enable it with this setting:


and you'll have all the info about what's going on during capture processing.

Post the log file here if you need support.

[maimai]

Hello, thank you for the fast replies

This is my codec settings
https://imgur.com/a/M4tPvpX

And this is the log file of the capture
https://pastebin.com/nC9aXcxs

[davexnet]

This is my codec settings
https://imgur.com/a/M4tPvpX

Try setting the mode to yuy2 instead of RGB

[lollo]

I do not understand what "RGB" means in your settings.

According to your log file, do you understand that you have 242 inserted frames on a total of 780 frames, so your capture is a complete crap?

[maimai]

I do not understand what "RGB" means in your settings.

According to your log file, do you understand that you have 242 inserted frames on a total of 780 frames, so your capture is a complete crap?

RGB was the default setting, i forgot to change it.
Well yea thats why im asking for help here

Set the codec settings to YUY2 now, thanks for that. Didn't solve the issue tho :/

[lollo]

Well yea thats why im asking for help here

AmarecTV is properly reporting the issues you're facing. The reasons may be many: bad tape, bad player, bad PC, bad software settings, frameTBC needed, etc.

In a proper capture you have 0 inserted frames and 0 dropped frames, for a video up to 3 hours...

At first, try another tape and if possible another player. Follow the recommendations given in the forum for proper software configuration.

[maimai]

Okay thank you, I will try another tape and player. However the tape seems to play fine on the camcorder itself and also on my old tv connected via scart...

[lollo]

I had a look to your capture sample in the first post. Too many inserted frames, something is wrong with your workflow.
If you do not have the log file anymore, you can check them opening the capture in VirtualDub and using bindkeys "?" and "^" or in the menu Go -> Prev drop frame / Next drop frame

[maimai]

So I've experimented a little more and this time used OBS to capture (it encodes to x264 directly). OBS doesn't insert any frames nor does it drop any, the output is completely smooth. I recorded at the second highest quality. I would prefer using something like VirtualDub or AmaRecTV but it seems to really be a software related issue...

Here is the sample video captured in OBS and processed in VirtualDub2
https://workupload.com/archive/WfgVLBrLat

[lollo]

the world upside down

[Alwyn]

@Lollo, pull you head in! maimai has done a fantastic job to provide all that info, far better than many, and all you've done is criticise, stated the bleeding obvious and been incredibly rude. The forum is called "VideoHelp", not "VideoBash". The only decent thing you've said is "try another tape and if possible another player".

Follow the recommendations given in the forum for proper software configuration.

Please provide a link. I don't recall seeing any "proper software configuration" posts.

@maimai, I don't have many suggestions for this, all your AmarecTV settings seem good. That looks like a nice capture by OBS; who'da thought?!

If you want to keep pursuing a lossless workflow (preferred), you could try a different codec; UTVideo is another free codec that is used here. Choose "ULY2" (there's a heap available and AmarecTV doesn't show you the details of each option; you can see them in VDub though).

Also, try capturing to different drive, even an external USB 3 drive, if you have one.

One minor nitpik: your MP4s are coming out as AVIs. On the Virtual Dub Save Video screen, put the "save as type" to "MP4 Faststart".

[Sharc]

@Lollo, pull you head in! maimai has done a fantastic job to provide all that info, far better than many, and all you've done is criticise, stated the bleeding obvious and been incredibly rude. The forum is called "VideoHelp", not "VideoBash". The only decent thing you've said is "try another tape and if possible another player".

Lollo has just commented a fact. No bashing or being rude. So stop bashing on him. Stay with facts. You are not a moderator btw, right?

[maimai]

If you want to keep pursuing a lossless workflow (preferred), you could try a different codec; UTVideo is another free codec that is used here. Choose "ULY2" (there's a heap available and AmarecTV doesn't show you the details of each option; you can see them in VDub though).

Also, try capturing to different drive, even an external USB 3 drive, if you have one.

One minor nitpik: your MP4s are coming out as AVIs. On the Virtual Dub Save Video screen, put the "save as type" to "MP4 Faststart".

Thank you for the suggestions, I found out OBS can also record losslessly using UTVideo however it doesn't seem to support 4:2:2.
Here is a list of the supported color formats:
https://imgur.com/a/5tBkgSs

Regarding this, would recording to 4:4:4 and then subsampling back to 4:2:2 in AviSynth loose any color information?

I will also try recording with ffmpeg to see how well that works.
Also is there a way to set DAR in VirtualDub2 without changing the video resolution?

I will also try AmarecTV again with a different drive and a usb. Also thanks for the hint for changing the file type, I completely forgot that

[dellsam34]

Regarding this, would recording to 4:4:4 and then subsampling back to 4:2:2 in AviSynth loose any color information?

It doesn't gain any color information to begin with, Hardware is locked to 4:2:2.

[maimai]

Regarding this, would recording to 4:4:4 and then subsampling back to 4:2:2 in AviSynth loose any color information?

It doesn't gain any color information to begin with, Hardware is locked to 4:2:2.

Right, my question was about potential color loss when subsampling back to 4:2:2 from 4:4:4, compared to the original 4:2:2, not the upsampled version

[dellsam34]

That's what I'm trying to explain, there is no such 4:4:4 in analog SD capture devices, You can only start from 4:2:2, The ADC is locked to 4:2:2, When you choose 4:4:4 in the app, the software is just up sampling 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 on the fly. Then later you down sample it again to 4:2:2, It's like walking one step forward and walking one step backward. Does it make sense now?

[poisondeathray]

I found out OBS can also record losslessly using UTVideo however it doesn't seem to support 4:2:2.
Here is a list of the supported color formats:
https://imgur.com/a/5tBkgSs

Regarding this, would recording to 4:4:4 and then subsampling back to 4:2:2 in AviSynth loose any color information?

It depends on how it was upsampled , then downsampled

It can be lossless if done correctly at each step, with nearest neighbor algorithm .

But it's more common to be done incorrectly - such as progressive 422=>444 upsampling , instead of interlaced aware 422=>444 upsampling. Progressive upsampling would cause chroma artifacts at the upsample step. You'd have to make sure that 1st step was done correctly , I suspect it would be done incorrectly because OBS is generally used for progressive live streaming

[lollo]

@Lollo, pull you head in! maimai has done a fantastic job to provide all that info, far better than many, and all you've done is criticise, stated the bleeding obvious and been incredibly rude. The forum is called "VideoHelp", not "VideoBash". The only decent thing you've said is "try another tape and if possible another player".

I already told you once, you are not in the position to tell anything to me. I do what I want, when I want and how I want, whatever you may write.

I cannot understand if you are more incompetent in video capture and video restoration or in reading the posts in the forum, but I have a suspicion.

@Lollo, pull you head in! maimai has done a fantastic job to provide all that info, far better than many, and all you've done is criticise, stated the bleeding obvious and been incredibly rude. The forum is called "VideoHelp", not "VideoBash". The only decent thing you've said is "try another tape and if possible another player".

Lollo has just commented a fact. No bashing or being rude. So stop bashing on him. Stay with facts. You are not a moderator btw, right?

Thanks Sharc. Simply thank you.


Back to frames insertion problem for the OP: if your system drops/inserts frames something is wrong with your hardware, or with your software configuration. About the last, be sure you are not on-line, no antivirus running, no other action while capturing (I do not even move the mouse), disable all background processes.
Capturing to the same HD where the OS runs is not recommended, but I do on my laptop (GD is not even partitioned) without problem. Capturing to an external USB drive is the worst choice, congestion on USB management between capture card and disk, and writing speed / HD latency time worsening.

I ignore your PC hardware, but in general capturing in real-time to h264 is more prone to lose frames, but in your case is the opposite. Weird.
Eventually try also Hauppauge Capture software (real time MPEG2 software encoding, so not really recommended, but you never know).
The difference with the lossless approach is that the amount of data to be written is lower (but the computation si more resource demanding), maybe you suffer of poor hark disk continuos writing of a large amout of data. I do not know. It should not happen with modern hardware. Eventually try another PC or laptop.

Follow this link for AmarecTV configuration: https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/12986-amarectv-virtualdub-inserts.html.

Also is there a way to set DAR in VirtualDub2 without changing the video resolution?

No AFAIK, but you can do with a simple ffmpeg command:

ffmpeg.exe -i input.avi -aspect 4:3 -c copy output_dar.avi

[maimai]

It depends on how it was upsampled , then downsampled

It can be lossless if done correctly at each step, with nearest neighbor algorithm .

But it's more common to be done incorrectly - such as progressive 422=>444 upsampling , instead of interlaced aware 422=>444 upsampling. Progressive upsampling would cause chroma artifacts at the upsample step. You'd have to make sure that 1st step was done correctly , I suspect it would be done incorrectly because OBS is generally used for progressive live streaming

Thank you for the info, I will avoid capturing in 4:4:4.

I ignore your PC hardware, but in general capturing in real-time to h264 is more prone to lose frames, but in your case is the opposite. Weird.
Eventually try also Hauppauge Capture software (real time MPEG2 software encoding, so not really recommended, but you never know).
The difference with the lossless approach is that the amount of data to be written is lower (but the computation si more resource demanding), maybe you suffer of poor hark disk continuos writing of a large amout of data. I do not know. It should not happen with modern hardware. Eventually try another PC or laptop.

As I've stated previously, the Hauppauge Capture sotware seems to encounter the same issue, just not as strong although still noticable, inserting only a few frames. In contrast I've tried ffmpeg and OBS and both capture flawlessly, no frame drops and no inserted frames. I recorded using lossless utvideo in both with 4:2:0 subsampling in OBS and 4:2:2 in ffmpeg. Since OBS seems to be generally frowned upon here and doesn't offer 4:2:2 subsampling, I'll likely stick to ffmpeg for my future captures.

Thank you everyone for the help

[lollo]

Excellent!

Check the audio/video synch at the end of a long capture (1.5 / 2 hours)