DIFFERENCE in final quality ... using different sources ...

[Turb0tron]

This is my first post here ... so HELLO everybody ... ...


Let's say I want to create my OWN movie encode. It will be a 1080p encode.

I have TWO possible sources (each of them feature its 'standard' quality) :

- x264 1080p Blu-ray Remux
- x265 4K web-DL

I guess the BEST source in my use case will be the Remux for obvious reasons.


In the case I ONLY have the 'x265 4K web-DL' option. Assuming for a second that I am an acceptable good encoder ... would it be the final encode, JUST in terms of quality (CPUtime is NOT relevant), much distant from the Remux-generated one ???


Thank you very much.


Ps.- I will use Handbrake ... and the 4K source shows an acceptable good quality, BUT ... as a 'web-DL' ... it features a LIMITED 'bitrate' [assume the 'standard' or average bitrate 'Amazon Prime' , 'HBO' , 'Netflix' , etc ... tend to use ]... ... that's why I am NOT fully sure about the final 'quality' compared to the Remux-generated encode ... ... because I would like to build a VERY GOOD one ...

[Quint]

Encode the same scene in both versions. Look, which one is better.

[Turb0tron]

In the case I ONLY have the 'x265 4K web-DL' option.

...

[Turb0tron]

Actually, this is an use case I will face many times in the future. There are movies which are going to be broadcasted only from the 'streaming platforms' ... ... and several months (if not years) later ... maybe the blu-rays might be printed and released to the consumer market. Occasionally some blu-rays will NOT be released EVER ...


The 'streaming platforms' often just buy the Internet 'broadcasting RIGHTS' ... and they usually don't give a shit about hard formats (blu-rays) .

In order to economize 'network bandwidth' , the 'streaming platforms' tend to release their content on 'web-DL' format ... with LIMITED 'bitrate'.


In case you want to create a very good 1080p encode ... many times you will not have the 'Blu-ray' option as a source. The x264 1080p web-DL for sure is NOT a good source for this 'very good' encoding ... ... ... BUT ... the x265 4K web-DL MIGHT be an acceptable source ...


I am just an 'ocassional' encoder ... and I registered here to know the opinions from 'experienced' encoders ...


I think ... this is an use case some of us (not just me) are going to face in the near future.

It might be interesting to think about it ... a bit ... without any hurry ...


Thank you anyway.

[sophisticles]

There's no such thing as a "x264 1080p Blu-ray Remux", regardless of what the file name says.

A "Blu-ray Remux" traditionally refereed to someone ripping a Blu-Ray, stripping out any unwanted extras, like foreign subtitles audio, then muxing the audio and video streams in an mkv container.

The fact that "x264" appears in the name tells me someone re-encoded the Blu-Ray using x264.

Besides that, the 1080p tells me that this is 1920x800, since I'm guessing someone crop it from the original 1920x1080.

"x265 4K web-DL" Tells me someone downloaded a 4k version of the movie, from Netflix or YouTube or similar, and then re-encoded it with x265.

In theory the 4k version should be higher quality, but my guess is they probably both suck.

[Turb0tron]

FORGET about the probable naming missmatches [my fault] ... and focus on the IDEA :


- You WILL want to create a 'very good' 1080p encode.

- You will NOT have got a blu-ray available ...

- You will just have a 'web-DL' file downloaded from an 'streaming platform'. This 'web-DL' download will have a fair (complete) 4K resolution ... BUT a LIMITED 'bitrate'. It will be coded in x265 (as a casual encoder ... I don't exactly know whether the exact codec name is h.265 or x.265 ... that's NOT the important part, you get the 'idea').




With the previously described background. You take the downloaded file from the 'streaming platform'. Create a high-quality encode. The target resolution will have to be a fair complete 1K (I use to describe this as a FullHD or 1080p ... I apologize if that's not correct ... AGAIN ... that's NOT the important part ... you get the 'idea').


The question is :

Will this new 'high quality' encode be, in terms of quality, 'similar' to the encode we would have produced if we would have had the blu-ray available ??


I am sorry about the wording ... I need to sleep ... and english is not my first language.


Thank you and regards.

[4kblurayguru]

Let's say I want to create my OWN movie encode. It will be a 1080p encode..

well, you wouldn't name it "bluray remux", that's for other peoples' movies

I have TWO possible sources (each of them feature its 'standard' quality) :

- x264 1080p Blu-ray Remux
- x265 4K web-DL

I guess the BEST source in my use case will be the Remux for obvious reasons..

so it's not your movie, tell me what's the point of this, those are already encoded. Seems you want to turn those into more garbage.
At the end of the day crf 18 is go to, add or subtract 6 until it looks good to you on the playback device, you can also encode 10 seconds at a time instead of the entire length of the video to check quality or cbr 8000 kbps 2 pass

if you want it to look same or better than "remux" you need real source, tiff, dpx, prores etc.

[sophisticles]

Now that you explained it better I am more convinced that it is going to suck even more.

I suggest you do a couple of test encodes, but based on the scenarios you give, the results will be barely watchable.

[lollo]

and focus on the IDEA

The idea should be: do not encode anything and leave everything as it is.

[Turb0tron]

and focus on the IDEA

The idea should be: do not encode anything and leave everything as it is.

When you have many, many, many movies ... you might want to 'encode' in order to REDUCE the size of it all. Either way that is a PERSONAL choice ... whoever that wants (and can afford) to keep everything in RAW/original format ... good for him ... ...

tell me what's the point of this

I will tell you ... using a 'practical example' ...

I'll try to explain better myself this time ... it's not an easy thing ... I'll also need some of your collaboration (flexibility and some imagination) ... ... ... there we go !!



Imagine I ask you to please produce the '1080p best possible' encoding of :

'The Godfather (1972 - US) [Francis Ford Coppola] ' {https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068646/}

You would take your 'personal' blu-ray ... and you would produce that '1080p best possible' encoding. So far so good ...



Let's say now ... I ask you to please produce the '1080p best possible' encoding of :

'Carne de gallina (2001 - Spain) [Javier Maqua] ' {https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312525}


You would then answer me : "I don't have that blu-ray, man. Actually there's NO one according to 'Blu-ray.com' ... " ...

... and I would tell you : "That's OK sir ... we do NOT have any blu-ray ... BUT ... there's an spanish 'streaming platform' [not sure if 'FlixOlé' or 'FilmIn'] from where we have TWO different sources ... "

The TWO sources' characteristics are :

a) x264-1080p-limited 'bitrate'
b) x265-4K-limited 'bitrate'

... and from one of them, we have to generate ... the '1080p best possible' encoding. Pick the souce that fit you most ... then you would pick the 'b) source' ... ... and from this very 'sub-optimal' source, you would finally produce the '1080p best encoding' you are able to generate ...

[ I realize that for 'video Purists' we're making a mortal sin ... ... but you're flexible enough to keep following my 'casual user' example ]


I guess it would have been a bit less traumatic ... if we have had the blu-ray as a source. But in the future these circumstances are going to repeat over and over again ...


My original doubt was :

would the 'x265-4K-limited 'bitrate'' encoding be much worse than the blu-ray encoding ?



Of course the optimal decision is keeping everything 'untouched' ... BUT ... if you want to have a 'personal' copy of your many thousand movies with you while you're travelling to Mars (just a very extreme example) ... you need to take 'compromises' ...

You know better than me 'ffmpeg' can make real wonders ...

And there will be many times that there will NOT be a blu-ray to make an empiric comparation ...



Regards ... and thank you again ... ...