VHS dot crawl with RGB and S-Video

[Hajker]

[Attachment 74231 - Click to enlarge]
This is what I mean with passthrough, maybe there's a misunderstanding.

[mammo1789]

@mammo, For a VCR, it is only Y-C or CVBS and if you don't select Y-C it will default to CVBS, it's from personal experience not from google search, at least the VCR's and sat receivers I owned.

I never sad that VCR is not only Y-C or CVSB composite I sad that scart can carry all those signals not just Y-C and if the source can output RGB and the other machine or TV can accept RGB it can output rgb. I did that with my old projection tv from the scart of the video console that definitely outputted rgb and tv accepted it. I had one of the first satellite receivers in my country And had experience before even internet was born so don't assume I am Google generation of kids

I also used tv box that had scart to connected it to a monitor which has only vga and can only accept rgb so that's another case of use of scart as a RGB carrier

[hech54]

Always assume that if the VCR does NOT have a dedicated S-Video output....you will NOT get an s-video equivalent output signal via SCART. Learned that DECADES ago.

[Hajker]

the vcr does have an s-video out, even an s-video input.
it's a S-Vhs deck, i think most of them have s-video, as the higher resolution needs it.

[Hajker]

still hoping that someone answers why do tapes don't seperate y-c when recording on them, as in playback you can see the dot crawl is engraved in it because the dots stop in place as soon as you pause, and the image becomes perfectly stable.

[hech54]

the vcr does have an s-video out, even an s-video input.
it's a S-Vhs deck, i think most of them have s-video, as the higher resolution needs it.

You still mentioned a SCART cable, AND you are capturing DVD? I'm confused.

[Hajker]

[Attachment 74245 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 74231 - Click to enlarge]

yeah, the vcr has s-video and scart. the image showing the process is how i transfer digital files to vhs, then back. that's just for fun. just remove the dvd player, and that's the capture process of any tape.

[Skiller]

I just read the manual, the NV-FS88 does not take S-Video via Scart for recording; there is a switch at the back but it's only for switching the output between Composite and S-Video. Thus if you want to record to tape without Composite artifacts such as dot crawl, you would have to use an S-Video cable to connect the DVD-player to the NV-FS88 (and possibly a Scart to S-Video adapter if the DVD-player doesn't have a separate S-Video out).
S-Video via Scart for recording cannot be done with this VCR – you need to use an S-Video cable for that.

RGB is not leading you anywhere with this endeavor, because, as explained earier, you get Composite due to a lack of RGB support in VCRs and the automatic Composite fall back built into Scart RGB.

[Hajker]

the NV-FS88 does not take S-Video via Scart for recording

I've read the manual a bit, it says that the conventional sockets of VTRs = input & output don't seperate y-c, but for some reason it does for me, at least for output. I understand that it may not seperate them while recording on to a tape, but other users said that the output also doesn't seperate them, when I showed you that it does. I'll record a video on to a tape with s-video tomorrow, will see if it changes anything. Hopefully! (Have to wait for a shop to open, need the scart-svideo adapter) Though capturing tape with s-video didn't fix the dot crawls. They're engraved in the tape signal, and s-video/scart just shows them more clearly; on a composite connection you'd probably not see them.

[Hajker]

[Attachment 74255 - Click to enlarge]

If anyone wonders if everything's connected properly. By the way I use the first DVD instead of the combo to send a video to the VCR for recording, just because I can see what the VCR is seeing.

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Just fiddled around with different connections. Couldn't figure out why the image of the DVD player looked like composite, but it was just because the combo was receiving a different source (AV1). Also couldn't figure out why AV1 worked but AV2 didn't, then I switched to AV2 cause I stupidly forgot to switch it back, and connected the SCART to that port, and the image became stable again.

It's interesting that the Combo's AV1 only receives composite (even though it's supposed to only output a signal), but AV2 works in RGB.

[Hajker]

https://files.videohelp.com/u/304501/VTS_01_1.mkv

Here it shows what happens when you pause the tape. The dots and even rainbowing freeze in place. If it was composite, the dots would've been still running up and down the edges of colors.

[Skiller]

Yes, AV2 (bottom Scart) is able to passthrough RGB on the NV-FS88 (it goes from AV2 to AV1). It was intended to be used with a digital satellite receiver.
But if you try to record to tape, the NV-FS88 will use the Composite signal for that which comes along with RGB (it's actually a clever system for it's time!).

So yes, you get a successful passthrough of RGB from the DVD-player to the Combo, which then is actually able to use RGB for recording (edit: to DVD), unlike VCRs.


However, if you want to record to tape without Composite artifacts, the answer is in my previous post. You cannot use Scart for that with this VCR.

The dots and even rainbowing freeze in place. If it was composite, the dots would've been still running up and down the edges of colors.

That doesn't prove it because in pause mode the VCR most likely switches off interlacing which also freezes dot crawl and rainbowing. If you've ever looked closely at an old video game console in Composite, you would see the same thing: frozen dot crawl and rainbowing over a moving image.

[Hajker]

But if you try to record to tape, the NV-FS88 will use the Composite signal for that which comes along with RGB (it's actually a clever system for it's time!).

That's what i was trying to ask, and i was told that this is false.

the VCR most likely switches off interlacing which also freezes dot crawl and rainbowing

Seems like you're correct. Didn't know it was tied to interlacing.
I captured another sample in composite mode (that AV1 port on the combo), it produced a similar result, though there was more rainbowing in the thin bar area, so I think scart is helping just a little bit, or there's just something wrong with the combo, don't know.

https://files.videohelp.com/u/304501/VTS_01_12.mkv


Also, would you happen to know why the Hi-Fi audio produces a chirping noise at around 8khz on specific tapes? Doesn't happen when recording on the same vcr; or tapes which come from vhs cameras. And the chirping is very quiet, but it is there, and I want to get rid of it. The right channel, on which the chirping occurs also sounds a bit more fluttery, like it's not tracking as good as the left channel.
I've been on forums and even sent this thing out to a service, but they couldn't find an issue, so i wasted lots of money in shipping.
By the way I've tested the tapes on a different vcr, and it didn't have that problem, but I can only use this one.

[Skiller]

You tried manual tracking I suppose? By pressing the Channel Up or Down button very briefly while playing a tape you can adjust the tracking manually.


Unfortunately with analog tape formats there is always the chance of a deck not being able to play back some specific tapes satisfyingly. This is why it is often claimed the machine which recorded the tape is the preferred one to use for playing it back. Or to use a deck of the same manufactuerer if the original one is out of reach.

This is why professionals have about half a dozen decks of different manufacturers and eras to find the one that works best with a given tape.

[Hajker]

Yup I've tried manual tracking, the chirping just became louder. Tried adjusting the roller guides as well, but that didn't improve things much.
The thing is, that 2 of the vcrs which didn't have chirping are- a cheap samsung combo, which has different problems, and another, a bit lower end panasonic combo, which i can't get access to.

Guess I'll just wait for another vcr with a good deal. That rarely happens sadly.