A MediaInfo for Subtitles

[loninappleton]

A previous question recently was talking about subtitles out of synch and such. The program Mediainfo will tell a bit about a subtitle but I wondered if there is a more complete way to see what's in a sub especially if it comes from a source like opensubititles.com.

I don't know if there is a view of a loaded sub in Subtitle Edit or other application that does this.

[davexnet]

A previous question recently was talking about subtitles out of synch and such. The program Mediainfo will tell a bit about a subtitle but I wondered if there is a more complete way to see what's in a sub especially if it comes from a source like opensubititles.com.

I don't know if there is a view of a loaded sub in Subtitle Edit or other application that does this.

What specific information about the subtitle do you have in mind?
They're mostly just text files, you can open it and look at it in notepad

[loninappleton]

An example woud be as noted in that previous question that there re four frame rates possible. Frame rate setting can be done in Subtitle Edit setup screen. But in fact I don't know how the SE setup screen works. You load your SRT-- it has a frame rate and you can change it. Does the Setup sceen options show the details of the current SRT load? I have worked around what I see as a lot of 'adjusting' manually and line by line. In other words I don't know what sort of manipulation SE does based on it's rules (8ms seconds minimum for this and that etc.) I no longer ever use "fix common problems" which I don't see as problems.

[davexnet]

I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that the default frame rate as specified on settings/general is just a convenience thing.
Say you set it to 25 fps.
Later when you want to use synchronization/change frame rate it will say "from frame rate 25 to frame rate xx"

It preloads the "from" frame rate for you, that's all it does.


In general, these text subtitles do not have an inherent frame rate in the way you're thinking.
They only have an implicit rate in that a particular subtitle file has been timed to match a specific version of
a movie.
For example a 25 fps PAL version of a typical Hollywood movie is sped up 4% over the true film rate
to accomodate the 25 frames per second of the PAL system - so the movie is shorter and the matching subtitle timing
accounts for it.

[Ennio]

An example woud be as noted in that previous question that there re four frame rates possible. Frame rate setting can be done in Subtitle Edit setup screen. But in fact I don't know how the SE setup screen works. You load your SRT-- it has a frame rate and you can change it. Does the Setup sceen options show the details of the current SRT load?

There are way more than 4 framerates possible. But as @davexnet said, there is no framerate in srt. It's just text and timestamps. The setup screen holds adjustable rules on which you want SE to operate. The default framerate you set has nothing to do with srt but is to be interpreted as the default value wherever this would matter, but it's also shown when loading a srt. If you would load a video with another framerate than initially shown, the value changes to the video's framerate.
When you export to a format that mandatorily carries framerate, e.g. SUP, you have to set it manually in the export-window, obviously matching that of the video. Because it isn't always set the same as the current video, but (I think) to the last one the export-function was set to.

...I don't know what sort of manipulation SE does based on it's rules (8ms seconds minimum for this and that etc.)

What rules/settings don't you understand? If find them quite self-explanatory.

I no longer ever use "fix common problems" which I don't see as problems.

Most of them are for continuing styles, aesthetics and some cleaning up on grammatics. From the past I know some players showed issues with too short or no gaps.

[loninappleton]

It makes sense that SRT is just a text file-- an SRT can be renamed and used as a text file. SE has that option option F2 which I've used to edit tricky timing issues.

The simple answer then is there's no analytics for it.

Thanks for clarifying on what the setup/options screen reports as the frame rate. Since most of my subtitling is done from British theatre the frame rate for those reports as 25 fps in an MKV so I set SE for that.

[Ennio]

It makes sense that SRT is just a text file-- an SRT can be renamed and used as a text file. SE has that option option F2 which I've used to edit tricky timing issues.

F2 indeed toggles between source- and list-view. I do wonder what "tricky timing issues" you're editing in source-view, that couldn't easier be done in list-view. Or even could be automated by one of the timings-based functions of "Fix common errors". Which can process according to certain keen set values in "Settings". Maybe you're unaware of the potential. Care to give a few examples?

[loninappleton]

@Ennio

Thanks for answering. On the tricky stuff I just don't know how or if there are calculations done on previous lines for example. I've gotten lost in what the timings are doing and have had to go back and analyze previous lines for some change made. It's just my impression of it-- how did line 284 become 18 mins all of a sudden? It could be I mistyped something and changed a line number so it's my error. But any time auto functions are used it means they are always used and can create problems in the edit.

I've learned how to use a few of the functions of SE. I go line by line and using printed text from public domain plays. I don't really want to add more things to it until such time as I need the features for other jobs to do things like merging or changing start time (which is a good benefit).

[davexnet]

"18 mins all of a sudden"
The only time I've seen this kind of length was due to some bad subtitles generated by Whisper.

If it's not that, and you can recreate it, you should post the details

[loninappleton]

I can go and find the errors in the previous line(s.) I just don't know what calculation (since SE looks to operate like a spreadsheet)
pushes the error up to previous lines. I make errors with SE. But I can't explain it any better than that the errors can be hard to find.

[davexnet]

I can go and find the errors in the previous line(s.) I just don't know what calculation (since SE looks to operate like a spreadsheet)
pushes the error up to previous lines. I make errors with SE. But I can't explain it any better than that the errors can be hard to find.

It depends what tool you're using.
If you use Synchronization/Adjust all times ... It gives you an option to apply it to selected lines or all.
Similarly, Synchronization/change speed (%) gives you a similar option.

Synchronization/change frame rate ... applies to all lines

Are you using any of these?

[loninappleton]

I can go and find the errors in the previous line(s.) I just don't know what calculation (since SE looks to operate like a spreadsheet)
pushes the error up to previous lines. I make errors with SE. But I can't explain it any better than that the errors can be hard to find.

It depends what tool you're using.
If you use Synchronization/Adjust all times ... It gives you an option to apply it to selected lines or all.
Similarly, Synchronization/change speed (%) gives you a similar option.

Synchronization/change frame rate ... applies to all lines

Are you using any of these?

Hi Dave,

Since I do everything line by line I don't want to synch everything. However, the Synchronization routiine for whole job
(select beginning and end frames) in SE is a very good tool. I've tried that. At first it's hard to understand (for me) but that can work very well.

There's difference between just a block of text like Youtube makes and putting in all the characters/speakers names.
Plus there's the subtlety of when to use dash lines for speaker changes. And HI comments-- (Door opens/ closes). That's what I'm going for and the reason it takes me a long while to do a project.

There are good examples of this. One of my favorites is a live shoot of a children's theatre show based on a kid's book called "I Want My Hat Back" as an example that has all the descriptive things working.

What I've never found since starting doing this is a master style sheet for the grammar of doing subtitles. There was one example but very thin and not much count from google or some such.