I am seriously considering a BrightEye 75

[Marshalleq]

Thanks Alwyn! I do plan to post some examples of all the different capturing types I've done. Because that seems to be missing on this site. For example finding an explanation with examples of what errors look like. Might need some help with that - and it will be a month before I even get the gear. Found two nice SDI to thunderbolt Blackmagic devices for $79NZ second hand so will have a nice PCI bus connected solution with that. Even cheaper than I was planning. Capture software on Mac is the next problem. I actually think OBS has had a few updates that make it a lot better than it was. I think most people are bagging it based on what it used to be. But, again I could be wrong. I'll probably end up using some Linux command line solution via home-brew or something. We shall see. The good thing is I've recorded a lot of examples already in different situations - plus I also have a DVK-100 that I've replaced the caps on which I can compare. The caps are quite a bit better so let through a lot more signal than the original spec did. I have some work coming up!

[Marshalleq]

Purchased earlier today - now the long wait. I am a bit excited

[Alwyn]

Gencom's ripping you off. It's $2300NZ on B and H ($1377US). You'd have to pay postage, but even the ripoff USPS wouldn't be more than $100.

Is Gencom giving you a warranty? B and H aren't.

[Bogilein]

A few thoughts about the SDI workflow.

It is always good when there are several people who can give their opinion about the SDI capture. The video community is happy about every objective contribution.

But you should consider that for the SDi workflow also 3 devices are necessary.

VCR - SDI device - SDI capture card.

SDI capture card: Basically you have to choose between capture cards as PCI-Express, USB3 and Thunderbolt. You should keep in mind that especially newer devices often can't capture SD 720x576i or 720x480i.
In my search, PCI-Express (I have 2 SDI cards) and Thunderbolt were no alternative to a USB3 device. The selection was very limited and I bought the Blackmagic Ultra Studio USB3 recommended by dellsam34. New no longer available.

One reason why only few users use the SDI workflow might have been the high prices for the SDI devices in the past. The leading devices were from Snell & Wilcox and they were anything but cheap.

New devices for capturing analog signals via SDI are currently only available from Ensemble Designs with the Brighteye series, as far as I can see.
Your focus is on the Brighteye 75, but wouldn't the Brighteye 1 or 3 be better suited here? Brighteye 1 and 3 are also advertised with VHS support on their website. Maybe user dellsam34 can shed some light on whether the TBC/Frame Sync function is the same for all of them?

dellsam34 also brought the Singmai SM03 device into discussion a year ago. The interesting part in this device would have been that according to the homepage of the company a player with line TBC would not be necessary for the jitter correction.
Unfortunately, no one from the video community has seen one of these devices yet.
My order for the Singmai device earlier this year was unfortunately cancelled. The quality of my previously used SDI devices from AJA (AJA FS1, AJA LSe, LHe) could not convince me so far.

In any case, you might need a vcr with line TBC for the Brighteye devices. See this contribution:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/6551-leitch-dps575-vs.html

For me, the Brighteye 1+3 would actually be the more interesting devices.

Snell & Wilcox devices can often be bought used on the various platforms. With the current prices, however, I would tend to buy a new device from Ensamble Designs.

If the Singmai device keeps its promises on paper and whether it will be available at all can be questioned.

If the SDI way is the holy grail of video capture depends on your tapes and their video content, as well as your own taste. Sooner or later you'll come across tapes where the usual workflow fails and it's good to have an alternative. Starting from the player over TBC to the capture card.

A pure capture PC can make sense if you have a lot of tapes to record. Recording is only possible in real time and if you then also want to post-process the files....

[Marshalleq]

Gencom's ripping you off. It's $2300NZ on B and H ($1377US). You'd have to pay postage, but even the ripoff USPS wouldn't be more than $100.

Is Gencom giving you a warranty? B and H aren't.

I do wish I’d seen that. But NZ requires to pay 15% GST on top for imported goods at a minimum as well, and I did get a 7.5% discount from them in the end. It is NZ law that all products must carry a minimum 1 year warranty, plus there is the consumer guarantees act that runs past that so perhaps it isn’t so bad. They’ve also said they’ll reduce the 250 if the actual freight is less and that apparently it includes the customs fees which it should because that is not my concern if buying from them. It is expensive here. Everything is always expensive. And usually for no reason. And our wages are probably half US. It’s maddening but what we must live with unfortunately.

<EDIT>. They've just messaged me to say the quote included an additional power supply - apparently Ensemble Designs didn't previously include one but now they do - so I'll get that refunded once the freight is worked out. So that's $130+15% that I'll get back for the PSU.

[Marshalleq]

A few thoughts about the SDI workflow.

It is always good when there are several people who can give their opinion about the SDI capture. The video community is happy about every objective contribution.

But you should consider that for the SDi workflow also 3 devices are necessary.

VCR - SDI device - SDI capture card.

SDI capture card: Basically you have to choose between capture cards as PCI-Express, USB3 and Thunderbolt. You should keep in mind that especially newer devices often can't capture SD 720x576i or 720x480i.
In my search, PCI-Express (I have 2 SDI cards) and Thunderbolt were no alternative to a USB3 device. The selection was very limited and I bought the Blackmagic Ultra Studio USB3 recommended by dellsam34. New no longer available.

One reason why only few users use the SDI workflow might have been the high prices for the SDI devices in the past. The leading devices were from Snell & Wilcox and they were anything but cheap.

New devices for capturing analog signals via SDI are currently only available from Ensemble Designs with the Brighteye series, as far as I can see.
Your focus is on the Brighteye 75, but wouldn't the Brighteye 1 or 3 be better suited here? Brighteye 1 and 3 are also advertised with VHS support on their website. Maybe user dellsam34 can shed some light on whether the TBC/Frame Sync function is the same for all of them?

dellsam34 also brought the Singmai SM03 device into discussion a year ago. The interesting part in this device would have been that according to the homepage of the company a player with line TBC would not be necessary for the jitter correction.
Unfortunately, no one from the video community has seen one of these devices yet.
My order for the Singmai device earlier this year was unfortunately cancelled. The quality of my previously used SDI devices from AJA (AJA FS1, AJA LSe, LHe) could not convince me so far.

In any case, you might need a vcr with line TBC for the Brighteye devices. See this contribution:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/6551-leitch-dps575-vs.html

For me, the Brighteye 1+3 would actually be the more interesting devices.

Snell & Wilcox devices can often be bought used on the various platforms. With the current prices, however, I would tend to buy a new device from Ensamble Designs.

If the Singmai device keeps its promises on paper and whether it will be available at all can be questioned.

If the SDI way is the holy grail of video capture depends on your tapes and their video content, as well as your own taste. Sooner or later you'll come across tapes where the usual workflow fails and it's good to have an alternative. Starting from the player over TBC to the capture card.

A pure capture PC can make sense if you have a lot of tapes to record. Recording is only possible in real time and if you then also want to post-process the files....

Thanks for the info. Yeah there are two second hand older Blackmagic Ultrastudio Recorders for sale here that I am to get one of for $NZ89. They have the older thunderbolt connection which just needs an adapter and cable - I have both already. They list the required resolutions - I had no idea that some of the new ones didn't though - there is still a replacement for these by Blackmagic I thought - but I don't recall if the SD resolutions are supported or not. I have the line TBC in my JVC player already, so that's covered. What I like about this solution is the capture device problem goes away essentially. Thunderbolt devices are essentially direct PCI connected which in my opinion is a good step up from USB - which isn't to say USB is bad, but just that thunderbolt should have a few less limitations when designing the device.

I had no idea about the Brighteye 1+3 - I did originally have a look to see what other similar devices were there but there were so many, I think I just got distracted and forgot to keep going. And I was going down from 75 so I guess it was basically the last ones!

The 75 seems to add HD and Audio, colour bars and the audio can be balanced. The 1 has optical out which I suspect is not very useful. Assuming the 1 and the 3 are cheaper then yes, they are likely all you need. There may be some advantage processing SD in an HD capable machine, more headroom perhaps a better conversion process, would need to get into the manual and specs I guess. Good find! Ensemble Designs told me they still make all of their products so it would seem that these would also be available.

[lollo]

The quality of my previously used SDI devices from AJA (AJA FS1, AJA LSe, LHe) could not convince me so far.

Bogilein, can you expand this? Do you have comparisons between these SDIs paths and our conventional workflow with one of the reccomended USB capture cards?
I am very interested in your tests and conclusions on this subject, being sure they will be excellent as usual

[Marshalleq]

Well, my Brighteye 75 turned up today - actually 3 days ago, but I didn't make it in time to collect. Apparently the shipping was actually more expensive than quoted - though they waived it and I got the money for the extra PSU back as it's now included. Unfortunately I'm still awaiting the courier for the SDI converter, which seemingly due to a paging glitch at the door, failed to deliver this morning. On the weekend I wired up a short S-Video to Y / C cable and an SDI cable and this afternoon a stereo RCA to phoenix connector for the back. I was surprised at just how small it is actually. I mean I've seen the pictures multiple times, but it really is much smaller and thinner than I had realised. It will sit nicely with the other gear I've got. I'm nearly there!

[Attachment 74363 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 74364 - Click to enlarge]

[Alwyn]

You're taking a bit of a risk showing that white thing in the background!

[lollo]

You're taking a bit of a risk showing that white thing in the background!

Well, at least he can compare 2 captures of the same materilal with BE75 and ADVC-110 and post the results here. It would be a wonderful thread!!!

[Alwyn]

$3000 vs $100. Should be 30 times better!

[dellsam34]

Keep in mind the BE75 gets a little bit warm, so keep some space around its aluminum body, and don't put the SDI interface on top of it as it too gets warm.
Could you share the Phoenix to RCA mod, I've looked for a pre-made cable but seems like does not exist. I made my own too but I would like to have a factory solution, unfortunately I'm unable to find such cable.

[Marshalleq]

You're taking a bit of a risk showing that white thing in the background!

Ha, I thought it would get a comment - and I have two of these - the older / earlier one I am yet to try it's 7 pin din connector to find out what it is to solve a discussion I started a while back.

[Marshalleq]

You're taking a bit of a risk showing that white thing in the background!

Well, at least he can compare 2 captures of the same materilal with BE75 and ADVC-110 and post the results here. It would be a wonderful thread!!!

Yes, I do plan to do that and more!

[Attachment 74375 - Click to enlarge]

[Marshalleq]

$3000 vs $100. Should be 30 times better!

If only that were true huh. But this does solve a number of problems and it was weird - normally I would have laboured over this kind of cost for weeks but I didn't. It just seemed like the right thing to do. I'm guessing I'm going to become the family archivist lol.

[Marshalleq]

Keep in mind the BE75 gets a little bit warm, so keep some space around its aluminum body, and don't put the SDI interface on top of it as it too gets warm.
Could you share the Phoenix to RCA mod, I've looked for a pre-made cable but seems like does not exist. I made my own too but I would like to have a factory solution, unfortunately I'm unable to find such cable.

I plugged it in the other day without even running anything through it and yes, it does get warm! I would have thought it would need to at least be processing something!

Good to know about the SDI unit also - I made short cables on purpose but the absolutely beautiful thing about SDI is you've got essentially unlimited length for our purposes, and cheap without quality loss - I really wish we would just have this in all our consumer gear.

I was a little disappointed about the phoenix connector, so as an interim all I've done is snip an old RCA cable in half and wire up the back of it via the manual. I can see in the VU meters in the web client that I'm receiving clipping so I know that it's working, but won't really be able to test it until the SDI converter comes along.

I have phoenix connectors in a bunch of audio gear that's part of some architecture I'm responsible for at work - they're a Bosch branded safety rated system - but it's always wired up by an on site electrician. So while I'm familiar with it, I've never done it. I'm hoping I can replace the back part of it so that it's not a press and release system, but rather a screw down system. Then the cable will be able to mount more securely. Presently it bends at the connection point because I'm not willing to do what I should do until I know I can buy additional plugs for it. When I do, I think I will either heat shrink it right around the plug somehow, perhaps with some internal bracing because it's just not very robust. I think I will also ask one of the electrical guys at work how they do it. Some seem to be cabled straight in and tied to the back, others seem to have a crimping mechanism placed onto the wire first - that's probably what I'll aim for.

[dellsam34]

I did the same thing cutting a RCA cable in half except I added solder to the bare wire ends to make them stronger, Try downloading the BrightEye control app, it is a lot easier to change settings in the computer than the front panel of the device, It requires its own USB cable and usually not compatible with USB3.

[Marshalleq]

Thanks, yep I’ve downloaded the app and just used the cable it came with, plugged that into my thunderbolt dock and it worked straight away. The SDI converter arrived this morning but I made a mistake. I’ve never seen an unsupported thunderbolt device before but it seems Blackmagic have elected not to enable the ultra studio mini (non 3G) for Apple silicon. It shows up in the connected hardware list but their driver only supports it on intel. So I’m looking for a local stockist of the 3G version now. Thankfully not very expensive but another delay!

Good idea about the solder. I discovered my soldering iron needs the tip replaced and haven’t done this step, I agree it would be preferable. I’m hoping I can get some of those little clips to go on instead, but I’m not convinced they will be available for this size. The connection holes are quite small aren’t they.

[dellsam34]

Yes they are smaller, Most of what you see online with screws are of a bigger size.

[Marshalleq]

OK all that's sorted and done a quick test just now - my initial take is the quality is far worse than any other solution I've tried to date including the Canopus - which if can't be fixed would be extremely disappointing obviously. That said, there are options to tweak and certainly dellsam34 has plenty of evidence to the contrary, so there must be a way. The cables and things I have need a bit of a tidy up due to some length issues they're strewn about a bit - small possibility of signal interference or bad soldering on my part.

I will when I get some time put some samples up on a website that don't go through YouTube compression to share this journey. Exciting times.

Edit: I think it's some kind of incompatibility with interlaced format. The Blackmagic converter has 625i50 PAL as the only compatible mode - but I assume this is correct. I'm still using OBS because these days it has a dedicated recording feature and it's been quite good - I've been putting off evaluating recording software until last step it's easiest to compare everything I've done so far. Also the Blackmagic device officially supports OBS for recording. So I'm guessing it's down the chain a bit - something in the brighteye potentially, but nothing is jumping out at me. Dellsam34 - would you mind sharing some of your settings? Thanks.

[Alwyn]

I will when I get some time put some samples up on a website that don't go through YouTube compression

Videohelp will host your videos, unaltered, up to 500mb. If you go above that, you probably won't get much interest anyway.

[Marshalleq]

I'm more thinking of hooking them into my website as a streaming option rather than a downloading option, will get around all these size issues and also keep them in my own space. I don't really find it valuable to have a whole bunch of separate files to download for comparison. I doubt I'll get too much interest here anyway.

[Marshalleq]

Update: Setting the capture software to 25fps and Yadif deinterlaced seems to get around the major part of the issue. Seems like 50fps works too - but not having a deinterlace filter on seems to cause really horrible picture. After this is done, I would say the image is sharper or more detailed, very very similar to the magewell XI204XE card I have, but also has a lot more jagged edges and on top of that in some views seems to have a horrible sort of wave in the picture that the Magewell doesn't have. I was actually quite impressed with the Magewell for it's detail.

The BE75 doesn't really show a wobble, more like if you look at a smooth set of ocean waves - imprinted on the picture in a static location - and some lines which almost look like MPEG encoding. Furthermore I actually haven't noticed any colour difference compared to the Canopus, nor any benefit of colour accuracy of 4:2:2 compared with 4:2:0, but that I suppose will need more work. But right now for the diminishing returns of both this device and the datavideo DVK-100 I'd be telling anyone whom asked me, not to bother with the expense of the BE75 or the DVK-100 and just use the Canopus combined with an S-VHS player with TBC. That has most definitely got the biggest bang for my buck. I do agree though, certain tapes need something in this space and despite the added noise (which is truly horrible) - so far the DVK-100 is winning. I reserve the right to change my mind though! This will be fun to work this out!

[Bwaak]

I actually haven't noticed any colour difference compared to the Canopus, nor any benefit of colour accuracy of 4:2:2 compared with 4:2:0, but that I suppose will need more work. But right now for the diminishing returns of both this device and the datavideo DVK-100 I'd be telling anyone whom asked me, not to bother with the expense of the BE75 or the DVK-100 and just use the Canopus combined with an S-VHS player with TBC. That has most definitely got the biggest bang for my buck.

[Alwyn]

My experience:

The ADVC (I have a -100) has poor visual stabilising abilities on it's own.

The DVK (I have a -200) has no visual stabilising abilities on it's own.

The ES-15 has very good visual stabilising ability.

I'm more thinking of hooking them into my website as a streaming option

The problem with that is that they can't be analysed properly. If you want detailed critiques, people will need to have them on their machines. Plenty of videos look OK when being played but (depending on your standards! ), they can be quite ugly when frame-analysed.

I ain't buying a BE75!

[dellsam34]

Use BM MediaExpress not OBS, I would recommend PC not Mac, Check your cabling and monitor VCR output quality. Having said that why would you expect BE75 to make the video better than what the VCR outputs, The captured video quality depends on the quality of the VCR, The BE75 just like any decent capture device does not have line TBC or DNR, Video IN should be exactly as video OUT not better, It does have 12bit ADC vs 8bit consumer stuff for more transparent conversion, But transparent does not mean OUT is better than IN.

The whole idea behind it is its built in frame TBC to minimize timing problems, not perfect just like any other frame TBC but it has the advantage to keep the signal digital instead of converting back to analog and embed audio to the video to avoid sync issues. If you think you bought a magic wand then think again. Video quality can be improved by filter in software if the original quality is bad. But the key to a quality capture is the player itself and a good capture device that doesn't degrade it.

[Marshalleq]

I most certainly don’t need detailed critiques, if someone wants them I may be able to help. All I’m interested in is how to get the best quality, in this case the potential removal of whatever issue this is. Having raw file isn’t likely to offer any benefit in my opinion. The samples I’m intending to show are for visual inspection only.

[Marshalleq]

Use BM MediaExpress not OBS, I would recommend PC not Mac, Check your cabling and monitor VCR output quality. Having said that why would you expect BE75 to make the video better than what the VCR outputs, The captured video quality depends on the quality of the VCR, The BE75 just like any decent capture device does not have line TBC or DNR, Video IN should be exactly as video OUT not better, It does have 12bit ADC vs 8bit consumer stuff for more transparent conversion, But transparent does not mean OUT is better than IN.

The whole idea behind it is its built in frame TBC to minimize timing problems, not perfect just like any other frame TBC but it has the advantage to keep the signal digital instead of converting back to analog and embed audio to the video to avoid sync issues. If you think you bought a magic wand then think again. Video quality can be improved by filter in software if the original quality is bad. But the key to a quality capture is the player itself and a good capture device that doesn't degrade it.

I will have a look at BM MediaExpress thank you. As I've said countless times, I'm open to PC if I need to, but will aim for Mac first, so far I see nothing that would make me use PC unless for example there is an incompatibility. But if I must, I will. I'd be betting if I did a comparison it will be hard to find a visual difference between the two - but I could be surprised.

Yes, I will check my cabling, it is high on my list.

I don't expect my BE75 to make the quality better than the VCR (accepting the frame glitches which is what it's for obviously) - I don't think I even said this and I've re-read my comments twice, where did I say that? What I don't expect, is for it to make the output worse than through the Canopus (considering the reputation of Canopus around here) and unfortunately currently the BE75 is worse than the Canopus. I really hope it's the cables or some power problem or similar - it may well be, I've barely played with it yet. So this is why I'm asking you what your settings are, well any settings changed from default that worked for you and accepting you're in NTSC land of course, so that's also difference.

Yes, I get the built in Frame TBC and the advantage of keeping it digital - that's why I got it. I have a few decades of tech experience and so when I saw those comments from you in the forum, then validated them on the BE75 website they really stuck with me as a major buying decision. It's also why I posted for feedback in the other thread to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong, but sadly there wasn't much feedback - I think I might be the first to own a couple of different workflows, so hopefully I can offer up some decent comparisons to help others.

I have a quality player, recommended from this site - this is how I know the BE75 isn't performing - because it (or hopefully something in the chain like cables) is degrading the quality compared to the same player via the supposedly inferior Canopus and Magewell capture cards. I will post a picture of what I mean soon.

Thanks for your help, I am sure together we will get to the bottom of it.

Thanks.

[Marshalleq]

Hi, did you get your media express with something? I can see it's listed as free, maybe only included with decklink products, but not listed as in the box. I can't find it for sale either. It does have a page though: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/decklink/mediaexpress

Do I need to buy a decklink product to get it? Otherwise I'll call the store tomorrow and ask them.

Thanks.

Edit: Scratch that, I found it. Seems to have been installed with the driver, I should have opened my eyes!

Same as ObS for basic visual quality, but I will use it for the nice eateries such as matching the ultra studio device settings automatically.

Also just went back to check dellsams YouTube site and his captures are superior to mine and definitely not exhibiting the problem I’ve got, so it’s definitely my end. That’s hopeful!

[dellsam34]

First make sure the BNC to S-Video is of a high quality, shielded and coaxial, preferably less than 3ft. If you are using SCART chances are it's falling back to composite.
Setting wise, here are mine, You may need to raise the audio level since its a balanced device by observing MediaExpress gain meters, make sure it's above -20dB, preferably around -5dB if you can: