Betamax > ES15 > S-Video Out = Y/C Separation?

[companda]

I've been using my ES15 as a passthrough for my Betamax for it's "TBC-ish" qualities, and have been using the S-Video OUT from my ES15 to my capture device. Am I getting the benefits of luma/chroma separation by doing this? I read somewhere that s-video doesn't need to be a part of every machine, but just needs to be part of the chain. Is this accurate?

[Sharc]

I've been using my ES15 as a passthrough for my Betamax for it's "TBC-ish" qualities, and have been using the S-Video OUT from my ES15 to my capture device. Am I getting the benefits of luma/chroma separation by doing this?

In the Settings of the ES15 (Menu Setup/Picture) you have to switch the Comb Filter to ON.

[Eric-jan]

I've been using my ES15 as a passthrough for my Betamax for it's "TBC-ish" qualities, and have been using the S-Video OUT from my ES15 to my capture device. Am I getting the benefits of luma/chroma separation by doing this?

In the Settings of the ES15 (Menu Setup/Picture) you have to switch the Comb Filter to ON.

For NTSC it's always on i thought...

[dellsam34]

Am I getting the benefits of luma/chroma separation by doing this? I read somewhere that s-video doesn't need to be a part of every machine, but just needs to be part of the chain. Is this accurate?

Not quite exactly, The reason of having Y-C at the machine level is to avoid the composite output all together, So you are missing on that, what you are getting with the ES15 is a better comb filter for your composite signal if the one in your capture card is not that good, plus you are getting some sort of video stabilization at the line level and probably some DNR. Though, I'm not familiar with DVD recorders.

[Eric-jan]

Am I getting the benefits of luma/chroma separation by doing this? I read somewhere that s-video doesn't need to be a part of every machine, but just needs to be part of the chain. Is this accurate?

Not quite exactly, The reason of having Y-C at the machine level is to avoid the composite output all together, So you are missing on that, what you are getting with the ES15 is a better comb filter for your composite signal if the one in your capture card is not that good, plus you are getting some sort of video stabilization at the line level and probably some DNR. Though, I'm not familiar with DVD recorders.

Well, then should capturing from the component output of the ES15 be better than that ! if also the s-video output from the betamax is put into the s-video in from the ES15.

[dellsam34]

I don't think he has S-Video out from the Beta, otherwise he wouldn't be using composite. Also component is not better, it's a different analog processing scheme that the DVD recorder has to perform, I don't own one to speak of but I don't see why it would better than S-Video or HDMI 480i for that matters if equipped?

[Eric-jan]

I don't think he has S-Video out from the Beta, otherwise he wouldn't be using composite. Also component is not better, it's a different analog processing scheme that the DVD recorder has to perform, I don't own one to speak of but I don't see why it would better than S-Video or HDMI 480i for that matters if equipped?

If the Betamax has only composite output "in the chain", would that not be the "weakest link" ? outputing s-video from ES15 to capture has still any good use for quality ?

btw. companda doesn't mention the composite output from the Betamax..

"I don't think he has S-Video out from the Beta, otherwise he wouldn't be using composite" > what's the logic of that ?

[dellsam34]

The logic is in the exact statement I made.
S-Video from composite is pretty straight forward, you can literally achieve it using one capacitor, but a better active comb filter is way better, Component not so much, it has to be processed and converted from Y-C to Y-Cb-Cr and this process is much more involved than getting Y-C from composite, which essentially a composed Y-C or composite.

[lingyi]

S-Video on Beta machines are very rare. Only the SL-HF2100 and ED-Beta series have it. Not sure about industrial machines, but other than the EDW-30, which is the EDV-9500 without the tuner and timer, I don't believe any non-BetaSP, et. al. machines have S-Video because it came so late in the life of Beta.

[Sharc]

I've been using my ES15 as a passthrough for my Betamax for it's "TBC-ish" qualities, and have been using the S-Video OUT from my ES15 to my capture device. Am I getting the benefits of luma/chroma separation by doing this?

In the Settings of the ES15 (Menu Setup/Picture) you have to switch the Comb Filter to ON.

For NTSC it's always on i thought...

Yes, by default. For PAL however one can switch the Comb Filter ON or OFF.

[Sharc]

I don't think he has S-Video out from the Beta, otherwise he wouldn't be using composite. Also component is not better, it's a different analog processing scheme that the DVD recorder has to perform, I don't own one to speak of but I don't see why it would better than S-Video or HDMI 480i for that matters if equipped?

If the Betamax has only composite output "in the chain", would that not be the "weakest link" ? outputing s-video from ES15 to capture has still any good use for quality ?

btw. companda doesn't mention the composite output from the Betamax..

"I don't think he has S-Video out from the Beta, otherwise he wouldn't be using composite" > what's the logic of that ?

His Beta has most probably composite output. Composite video shares the same wire for luma and chroma in overlapping frequency bands using the frequency-interleaving principle. For decoding the luma has to be separated from the chroma by filtering. Some capture devices do have poor separating filters. With poor filtering there will be residual luma/chroma crosstalk, producing the typical dotcrawl and rainbows artefacts. The Comb Filter of the ES15 (in passthrough) provides a high quality (3D) Comb Filter which delivers a clean Y/C signal at its S-video output. So the configuration is: Player composite video OUT -> ES15 composite video IN -> ES15 S-video OUT -> Capture device S-Video IN.
In addition, the ES15 in passthrough eliminates the horizontal wiggling and flagging which is often seen in absence of any TBC(-ish) functionality.

How effectivley the Comb filter works for separating luma and chroma may also depend how the tape player converts the color-under format of VHS and Betamax to the CVBS (composite) signal at its output.