Elgato Video Capturing on Panasonic DMR-ES35V

[pochi]

Hi guys, new member here seeking some of your wisdom..

I'm attempting to capture videos from my VHS using Elgato through my Panasonic DMR-ES35V that I found at my parents place.

However, the error message pop up:

"to watch pictures on VHS, use DVD/VHS common out, and switch to an appropriate AV channel on your tv'


[Attachment 73429 - Click to enlarge]

The composite video on the common out does not seem to pick up any signal (assuming it is broken?), so i'm using the S-video on the DVD priority out.
From my ignorant understanding, I assumed this message pops up as I am not using the common out (as per the error message). However, some of the other videos works fine without the annoying error message with the same connection.

I've also taken off the S-Video and connected all composites and tried through all channels, but most would literally flicker the actual video for a second, and go into 'no signal' immediatey

I apologise in advance for my ignorance, but i'm assuming this has something to do with PAL and NTSC formats? if so, is there anyone around this?

Thanks again

[dellsam34]

It's probably Macrovision copy protection or a false detection of it, What kind of tapes you are trying to view? Not sure if your combo unit have S-Video out for VHS, My understanding is composite only.

[Alwyn]

I'm pretty sure VHS goes out on S-video on the 35; it certainly does on the EZ-48. I'll check my 35 in a couple of days if Eric-Jan doesn't chime in beforehand.

[oln]

These will output VHS on all outputs via the internal digitizer so you don't have to use the composite output. You have to switch the input on the unit to the internal vcr to use it. I've only used the predecessor ES30V though so not sure what that specific message is about.

[Eric-jan]

Okay, now i just have to respond Did you try the SCART connection ? when i have set the tv-system wrong i don't see any message on the SCART output, but i do see a message on my component output.
I guess Australia had the PAL tv-system in those days, because the USA models were NTSC and have no SCART connectors.
Or the Australian model is also different, can you post a picture of the back of your ES35V ?
Also, check all menu settings, once in VHS mode and once in DVD mode (drive select)
If you do have SCART you can also use s-video with an SCART adapter plug, one with a switch is preffered, to switch between in or out.
oops, i just did a google….. (google is my friend)
https://www.fixya.com/support/t9933300-machine_functionality
which means… your trying to play a NTSC tape, when the message apears…
But it's for a HDMI output which the ES35v doesn't have in your case, or has it ? (the Australian model has no SCART i see now)
your trying to play NTSC tapes ? and the PAL tapes give no problem i understand.. tried all outputs/settings ?
You play the tape in (drive select) VHS mode ? and no timed events are set ? video is not set to "video with component" ?
A NTSC tape needs also be played in NTSC mode ofcourse, you need to set that in the menu, default is PAL for Australia, otherwise there's also a 4.33/3.58 color issue if this also doesn't work.

(btw. with AV channels is meant the video input channels which you aslo can select by cycling through all the tv channels, but then this might be NTSC50 and only usable at the UHF RF antenna output, because the CRT/LCD? tv might be able to display this)

if nothing works.. then it's a software glitch, or the tape is a SECAM tv-system one ? (depends from which country tv-system the tape is France/Russia)

maybe another option could be to use the ES35V as passthrough, and try any video/audio input of the ES35V, that's about it, what i can think about, good luck !


[Attachment 73431 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 73432 - Click to enlarge]

[pochi]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your replies.

The tapes i figured are indeed in NTSC, as most are videos sent from relatives from Japan. I did a couple of
Test with local vhs (i.e. PAL as i'm in Australia) which seems to display fine.

The 35 does have S-Video (In/out), but the Out is in the DVD priority out (which is what i'm using
Currently, but with the error
Message).

I haven't tried changing the input, will give that a shot! I forgot to bring the remote control from my parents place, so will try once i retrieve it!

Eric-Jan, thanks for the comprehensive reply! Much appreciated!
Mine does not have SCART nor the HDMI.
The backside is exactly identical to the illustration you posted
I have (assume) tried most output settings (may not have i'm not tech savvy unfortunately), but not under DVD setting yet, so will give that a a shot as soon as i get home!

I have tried googling, but did not come across that one! Though as you mentioned, there is no HDMI.

To atleast attempt ruling out the elgato app itself, I have tried using OBS to see if there's any difference, but it seems it still pops up with the same blue error bar unfortunately.

[Eric-jan]

Ah, my guess is now as soon you use the remote for the menu setting to change to NTSC, it should work without the pop-up message,
do the PAL tapes play normal on the common output ?
The pop-up message is from the Panasonic itself, but might not be on all outputs.
When you also have the remote (which you really need) it doesn't hurt to check which menu settings are set, my guess is that you won't find the option "set video to component" since you don't have SCART on your panasonic and thus, also no RGB options, don't confuse RGB with Component, those two are different connections, Component are the red, green, blue RCA connectors at the back, the ES35V is a great machine, also a better option to transfer Long-Play recordings from VHS.
Do not change multiple settings at once, my guess is you only have to set the NTSC mode for the NTSC tapes.
btw. NTSC from Japan might not look that good brightness/color wise, because of the different black level it has from USA NTSC,
IRE Japan = 0 IRE USA = 7.5 IRE PAL = 0
btw when doing long captures, check for lipp sync, because if video and sound does not stay in-sync it means there are frames dropped,
this is not the blame of the ES35V i know for sure, (i own the ES35V myself) but it could be your system performance or the Elgato itself.
To make better captures/conversions depends on your budget, and the quality you want, using the ES35V is already a great advantage, and you need no (extra/external) TBC because of that.
btw. you don't need to convert NTSC to PAL, the files you get, will play anywhere, by the looks of the picture you posted, the picture already is in NTSC because it shows color, and the Elgato software accepts it also.
You might also want to switch OFF the On Screen Display, (white text on black background) this OSD will appear when starting tape, functions, and also when tracking is slightly lost, when on AUTO or continuos when on ON …if i remember correctly, having the manual at hand may be usefull, or download it from ManualsLib, there are different versions, SCART and non-SCART ones and maybe even more, service manuals are also available for the different versions of the ES35V.

[oln]

Yeah as briefly mentioned you probably have to switch the TV system to NTSC/525-line in the menu on the ES35V manually if you want to use it with NTSC tapes like on the standalone dvd-recorders (never tested NTSC playback that on my ES30V). Also need to set the capture device tv system/resolution/framerate to NTSC settings (720x480, 29.97.... fps NTSC) accordingly, if it's set to PAL and you are trying to capture NTSC it will probably act as though there is no signal or similar.

(Maybe it's suggesting to use the other output to bypass the internal digitizer to output NTSC directly for viewing on a TV rather than having to switch TV system in the menu just to view a tape or something but you don't really want to do that for digitizing - the digital circuitry in the dvd-side of the unit will help give you a rock steady image from vhs tapes so you really want to make use of it.)

[pochi]

Thanks guys it worked! it was as simple as changing the setting as everyone mentioned (with the remote lol)
I guess it was silly of me to think it was possible to do it without the remote. Quite embarrassed to be honest.
Thanks again guys! did learn a lot in the past few days just searching about analog data on google haha

[Eric-jan]

Nice ! you also gave good information for us to work with, like the picture you took… it's old tech, you need to learn the logic of that, and get the hang of it,
Which Elgato capture device do you use ? model name ? which kind of computer do you use ? (windows/MAC) with what in it ? OS version ?

[pochi]

I used the Elgato Video Capture (not sure of the model, but it does state 10020840 on amazon), it's a dongle with composite cables and the usb-a on the other side to connect to pc. They're about $130~150 AUD.

I have a approx 7 year old custom made PC on Windows (currently still on Windows 10), but enough for basic video processing like this.
Not sure of the exact details, but I believe it has Core i7-6700, 32GB RAM, and GTX 1080 as the graphics card. No wow factor now, but top specs "back in the days" haha. Still going strong though!

I've made a capture already with excellent video quality (in .mp4), I do recommend this capture card particularly for a novice like me.

The only thing is I have multiple mouldy VHS's, which I've realized after i've been using on the VCR (with no cleaner devices available here in Australia, or at a decent price).
I'll probably need to clean the VCR head (?) eventually if a begin to notice issues..I guess its not an ideal way to go about it, but I'm assuming as simple as opening up the case and cleaning it? (according to youtube haha)

[lollo]

I've made a capture already with excellent video quality (in .mp4)

With that card you can capture YUV 4:2:2 lossless using AmarecTV or VirtualDub (better option)

[lordsmurf]

Those Elgato cards are actually pretty crappy, values are all over the place.
Not suggested.

[pochi]

Thanks Lollo, will look into it as I have 30+ tapes to digitize haha

Thanks lordsmurf, yeah i didn't expect it to be an advanced tool, but for the time being of salvaging my deteriorating tapes, its good enough (for me at least).
What capture device do you recommend?

[Alwyn]

Before you start buying another digitiser, I'd suggest you do a lossless capture, as Lollo suggests, and post a short clip here (approx 10 seconds will do) so the experts can check it out. I have a guide for using AmarecTV here.

The only thing is I have multiple mouldy VHS's, which I've realized after i've been using on the VCR (with no cleaner devices available here in Australia, or at a decent price).
I'll probably need to clean the VCR head (?) eventually if a begin to notice issues..I guess its not an ideal way to go about it, but I'm assuming as simple as opening up the case and cleaning it?

I would only be putting a mouldy tape through my VCR as a last resort. That ES-35 is a cut above the normal riff-raff VCR and you wouldn't want to stuff it up with mould. I'd be trying to clean (or get cleaned) my tapes first.

[pochi]

Hi guys,

Thanks again for your further tips.

Due to budget, I'm going to stick with the Elgato and try and obtain the best image possible with what I have for now.
As recommended, I've followed your instructions and captured using AmarecTV (as suggested by lollo and Alwyn), and i think it looks better however due to the large file size, I'll probably cherry pick tapes and interchange between using Elgato and AmarecTV for now.

I've also attached a 10 second video just to see if i'm even doing what i should be be doing haha

[Alwyn]

Your file looks pretty good to me.

We capture in AVI only to extract the best out of the tape. Now you can restore it (eg colours) if you wish, or just re-encode it into MP4 using, for example, Handbrake, AVIDemux or other more sophisticated programs such as Virtual Dub or AVISynth (warning-vertical learning curve but better quality again).

Handbrake and AVIDemux have various options to improve your video: deinterlacing, resizing (you need to set that file to 4:3), quality setting. There's also denoise options.

That will get the file size back down to what you were getting with the Elgato, but hopefully at better quality.

[Alwyn]

Here's my attempt with Virtual Dub, deinterlacing to 50fps, sharpened just a tad, adjusted the black levels with the Colormill filter (low darker, middle and light up a bit), gave the saturation a minor tweak, cropped away the side rubbish, resized to 720x540, exported to H264/MP4 at average bitrate 3000kb/sec and audio 192kb/sec.

[Eric-jan]

This is what Shutter Encoder makes of it, with all standard settings and compression on "auto"

So no upscaling.

[Sharc]

Your file looks pretty good to me....

So just don't spoil it with poor post processing

[lollo]

I've also attached a 10 second video just to see if i'm even doing what i should be be doing haha

Your capure looks fine.

There is some accumulation of blacks at Y=16, but for this shot is OK, because it happens in the black area in the door, so no details should be missing.





In general, tune your procamp to avoid crushing blacks (and clipping white). Capture range of Elgato card should be 16-254 (I do not own one, so I cannot confirm)

There are frames where the dropouts have not been corrected by the player:





You can replace the bad frames with new interpolated frames (I used a simple AviSynth MFlowInter from MVtools2):



LineTBC correction is not optimal:




For the full restoration, an AviSynth approach with QTGMC (tuned)/ TemporalDegrain2 / LSFmod will be adequate: https://imgsli.com/MjAxMzcz

[lollo]

Your file looks pretty good to me....

So just don't spoil it with poor post processing

He also likes to mutilate the videos. Respect for plant and flowers!!!

https://imgsli.com/MjAxMzc1



Alwin, I am joking!

[lollo]

This is what Shutter Encoder makes of it, with all standard settings and compression on "auto"

And Eric likes "fat" people.

Just joking Eric, check the DAR in your settings!

[Sharc]

This is what Shutter Encoder makes of it, with all standard settings and compression on "auto"

Interlaced source encoded as progressive. Don't do this.
Either deinterlace and encode as progressive, or leave it interlaced and encode as interlaced.

[Eric-jan]

This is what Shutter Encoder makes of it, with all standard settings and compression on "auto"

And Eric likes "fat" people.

Just joking Eric, check the DAR in your settings!

Thankyou, i will look into that, i'm rendering another video at the moment, maybe i need to reset Shutter Encodder's settings, maybe pixel setting is wrong i did not notice the DAR change.

[Eric-jan]

This is what Shutter Encoder makes of it, with all standard settings and compression on "auto"

Interlaced source encoded as progressive. Don't do this.
Either deinterlace and encode as progressive, or leave it interlaced and encode as interlaced.

Thankyou, this goes also on my todo list, getting better all the time

[Alwyn]

And Eric likes "fat" people.

Just joking Eric, check the DAR in your settings!

Lollo, your images are too wide as well. And you haven't shown my image at the correct DAR either. It should be 720x540, as per my post 18, not 720x480 as you show. Yours are 3:2. It's obvious from the width of her head.

maybe pixel setting is wrong i did not notice the DAR change.

Forgive me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but analogue AVIs don't have a coded DAR, most programs (incorrectly) calculate it by dividing the pixel width by the height, which in this case is 720/480 or 3:2 or 1.5:1. You have to manually tell the encoder what DAR you want. If you open your MP4 in VLC Player and swap the aspect ratio between "default" and 4:3, you see the issue. "Default" in your video is 3:2 (which is incorrect), picked up from Shutter Encoder.

[lollo]

Lollo, your images are too wide as well. And you haven't shown my image at the correct DAR either. It should be 720x540, as per my post 18, not 720x480 as you show. Yours are 3:2. It's obvious from the width of her head.

Yes, when comparing I always use original captured frame, displayed with the SAR (Storage Aspect Ratio, i.e. width and heigth), to avoid "processing" (resizing) altering the comparison.

Eric's video was a final output, and is wrong.

[Eric-jan]

Lollo, your images are too wide as well. And you haven't shown my image at the correct DAR either. It should be 720x540, as per my post 18, not 720x480 as you show. Yours are 3:2. It's obvious from the width of her head.

Yes, when comparing I always use original captured frame, displayed with the SAR (Storage Aspect Ratio, i.e. width and heigth), to avoid "processing" (resizing) altering the comparison.

Eric's video was a final output, and is wrong.

The wrong (3:2) aspect ratio was already "baked" into the Elgato capture, so no points for anybody this time ….
it should be 4:3, that was my default setting, for aspect ratio.
I hope the Elgato software has also some good settings for that, otherwise other software should be used to capture.
Mediainfo is a reasonable "inspection" program, avaiable both for Windows and MAC, to check video file properties.

[lollo]

The wrong (3:2) aspect ratio was already "baked" into the Elgato capture, so no points for anybody this time

There is no flag for DAR in a lossless captured avi file. You're probably talking about the SAR (Storage Aspect Ratio = 720/480) which is not present as well, but is just "created" reading the width and height.

If you write about captures, you should have known this.

Mediainfo is a reasonable "inspection" program

Mediainfo just reports what is written in the tags/fields, which can be true or false. It does not analyze the video in any way.