JVC SVHS-C GR-SXM260U Camcorder vs Panasonic PV-S4670->DMR-ES15 capture

[lollo]

Or better yet, what is the proper way to go about doing that?

There is nothing/little you can do at capture level. Bad borders and head switching noise are corrected in post-processing. For example for GR-SXM260U capture in AviSynth:

crop(10,2,-6,-6)
addborders(8,4,8,4)

[Bwaak]

@lollo, why do you add 16 pixels back on the sides?

[lollo]

To rebuild the 720xXXX frame. Much better to take them out and leave the 704xXXX frame for further processing, as you may wanted to suggest

[lovethisnation]

Or better yet, what is the proper way to go about doing that?

There is nothing/little you can do at capture level. Bad borders and head switching noise are corrected in post-processing. For example for GR-SXM260U capture in AviSynth:

crop(10,2,-6,-6)
addborders(8,4,8,4)

So what you basically did here is cut the canvas a little piece at the bottom of the image to get rid of the noise and mask it with black borders to maintain the same aspect ratio? Just trying to translate your code to plain English

[lordsmurf]

Yep, remove overscan noise, replace centered in black matte.

[Alwyn]

Crop it. Black borders look tacky.

[lordsmurf]

Crop it. Black borders look tacky.

Cropping distorts the low resolution image. It's not an easy decision if you're trying to retain quality.

Cropping is also not what you do to view on devices that have overscan.

[Alwyn]

Cropping distorts the low resolution image.

What do you mean by "distort"?

Cropping is also not what you do to view on devices that have overscan.

Such as? TVs, No (I've turned overscan off on mine); YT, No; Streaming boxes, No; Phones; No.

[lollo]

The active picture inside a 720x576 of your analog capture is 702/704x576. The DAR refers to this specification. When you crop your frame, you must respect the specification to do not introduce distortion. Meaning that removing 4 pixels from the left/right and 3 pixels from the top/bottom to respect the 4/3 DAR as you do may be not accurate.

When cropping, is better to forget about DAR and specift the SAR (Sample Aspect Ratio), because the Sample Aspect Ratio does not change whatever you crop. Encode then with Sample Aspect Ratio of 12:11 for a PAL ITU cap.
In other words, cropping by any amount of pixels and encoding specifying the Sample Aspect Ratio parameter does not distort any proportion of the frame).
The problem is that the player must understand and apply SAR flag.
This will allow you to remove your useless and lossy resize. Your liking of 768x576 and square pixels ( ) is your preference, but is not justified in any technical way.

Be careful that Sample Aspect Ratio if often called PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio), and when using this nomenclature SAR becomes Storage Aspect Ratio (the ratio between the width and the heigth of the frame).

On top of that, for a 4:3 material we have to introduce anyhow left and right very big black borders, so your effort to remove the top and black border of few pixels is incomprehensible (to me), and in any case it should be done with the SAR approach, not with the resizing.

I hate the concept saying: I have my TV, I want to fill all pixels, which brought to pan and scan and other similar butcheries of the images. This is of course my approach, your can be completely different and legitimate.

[Alwyn]

No compelling arguments there, Lollo, against making SD video just like every other video in the world: with square pixels.

Meaning that removing 4 pixels from the left/right and 3 pixels from the top/bottom to respect the 4/3 DAR as you do may be not accurate.

May? If a 4:3 crop isn't accurate, then 12:11 isn't going to be accurate either.

The problem is that the player must understand and apply SAR flag.

Not an issue with square pixels.

Be careful that Sample Aspect Ratio if often called PAR (Pixel Aspect Ratio), and when using this nomenclature SAR becomes Storage Aspect Ratio (the ratio between the width and the heigth of the frame).

Not an issue with square pixels.

On top of that, for a 4:3 material we have to introduce anyhow left and right very big black borders

No we don't, the player does. Give it square pixel 4:3 (or SAR 12:11) and it will display it properly. It will add the pillarboxing.

I hate the concept saying: I have my TV, I want to fill all pixels, which brought to pan and scan and other similar butcheries of the images.

Not relevant to this discussion.

[lollo]

against making SD video just like every other video in the world: with square pixels.

And you extrapolated this pearl of wisdom from where?

It will add the pillarboxing.

Does not matter who does it. Large black bars added on the sides is the final result. Then your approach to decrease quality cropping much smaller top and bottom bands and resizing makes no sense to me.

Edit: I missed this wrong statement earlier, a reply is needed.

May? If a 4:3 crop isn't accurate, then 12:11 isn't going to be accurate either.

No, because you act on SAR not on DAR. A crop operation doesn't change Sampling Aspect Ratio. If you cut an edge of a sheet of "graph paper" the shape of what is left is unchanged.

[Bwaak]

against making SD video just like every other video in the world: with square pixels.

And you extrapolated this pearl of wisdom from where?

Definitely not from his HDV camcorder

[jagabo]

It may be less common now but terrestrial and broadcast TV used to use non-square pixels at times.

My preference is usually to crop away junk only and leave the SAR (sample aspect ratio) intact and flagged. Then let the player perform the final aspect ratio adjustments (stretch, upscale, padding) for the screen.

[lollo]

It may be less common now but terrestrial and broadcast TV used to use non-square pixels at times.

Before HD era the common resolutions in DVB-S were 720x576, 704x576, 544x576, 480x576, 352x576; same for DVB-T. Non-square pixels.

DVDs use non-square pixels.

Camcorders ...

My preference is usually to crop away junk only and leave the SAR (sample aspect ratio) intact and flagged. Then let the player perform the final aspect ratio adjustments (stretch, upscale, padding) for the screen.

Yes. I still prefer the masking option to be as close as possible to the original program (just my collector obsession, to watch the Analog video digitized as close as possible to how was conceived/broadcasted) but crop the junk and flag the Sample Aspect Ratio is just as good (even easier)