Please Help with DVD-R Ripping & MKV Questions

[dped91]

Hoping some here might provide some fairly simple answers and ideal solutions to rip and store a favorite DVD-R movie before I have to return it to a distant public library.

I'm a virtual newbie to DVD movie ripping and know next to nothing about file structures and so forth. But this report did answer some questions about MP4 vs. MKV storage file formats.
https://cloudinary.com/guides/video-formats/mkv-format-what-is-mkv-how-it-works-and-ho...ompares-to-mp4

I'd much prefer to simply buy this now unavailable OOP Fox Classic DVD-R, but as collectors lament those Disney philistines have locked away virtually all classic Fox films for any number of sick reasons, so unless some big label like Criterion, Kino or ShoutFactory would call for the DVD or BD rights there's like no chance Disney will ever release it again, at least not on optical disc-which Hollywood is gleefully phasing out anyway.

https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/From-Hell-to-Texas-DVD/46207/ Sound quality is exceptional not only despite the lossy Dolby Digital audio but because Fox was notorious for trashing audio film masters; somehow this film's elements must have escaped the hands of those ********. And I don’t trust the quality of the masters used to make the Region B Spanish issue sold on Amazon, even if the artwork claims the release was under exclusive license from Fox.

But please confirm that DVD-R movies can't be copy protected, yes?

Please also confirm, what I think Lukas claims here, in post #33, that "cloning" or "backing up" a movie directly from the original DVD-R on one drive to a blank DVD-R or BD-R on another drive "…….will never be 1:1" https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/end-is-near-for-dvd-bd-drives.87431/page-2

So, if that's true than is the best way to create and retain a bit perfect copy of the movie is to simply rip the DVD-R movie and save and play it as an MKV file on a HD or SSD?

If yes, then according to the above report, MKV seems like it might be a better file format than MP4 to save the movie in. And MKV's typically larger file size is not a problem for me, as video AND audio quality is everything.

So, which MKV encoding app should I use?

But if I may turn slightly off topic, the only other concern is that the above report also says that MKV may not be easily editable. And while everything about "From Hell to Texas" is perfect as is, there's some very unpleasant scenes in at least one DVD-R movie in my collection which I would like to simply snip out.

So, if I ripped that disc and saved it to MKV, which if any MKV editing app would you recommend-BUT which will require no prior transcoding nor any compression or anything that would risk bit loss and/or compromise A/V quality of the file?

[TubeBar]

But please confirm that DVD-R movies can't be copy protected, yes?

DVD-R can be copy protected either w/ structure protection or with standard CSS or both. The CSS discs are not consumer ones you use but are used by studios for VOD (Amazon used to do this). Third party structure protection can also be applied. I have several VOD DVD-R that contain both, 1 from Sony DADC and a few from RipGuard w/ CSS.

Regardless AnyDVD will easily deal with those. Even MakeMKV should remove any garage files.

If this is from a public library my guess is they made it themselves and are keeping the original. So unlikely it is copy protected unless it was a commercial VOD from Amazon etc.

Please also confirm, what I think Lukas claims here, in post #33, that "cloning" or "backing up" a movie directly from the original DVD-R on one drive to a blank DVD-R or BD-R on another drive "…….will never be 1:1" https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/end-is-near-for-dvd-bd-drives.87431/page-2

Not sure where that post is or what he says? But as for DVD-R the user data will be 1:1. That's all you care about.

What can never be 1:1 is the copy protection if present but you want that removed too and obviously the physical media will not be 1:1 unless the source disc is a DVD-R General Purpose disc.

So, if that's true than is the best way to create and retain a bit perfect copy of the movie is to simply rip the DVD-R movie and save and play it as an MKV file on a HD or SSD?

A bit perfect copy is not possible for DVD without special drives that can read raw (sector by sector) 2352. You are talking about very low level stuff getting into the sector level. Again that does not effect user data and DVD file structure or UDF/9660 File System which is all you care about.

If yes, then according to the above report, MKV seems like it might be a better file format than MP4 to save the movie in. And MKV's typically larger file size is not a problem for me, as video AND audio quality is everything.

So, which MKV encoding app should I use?

Makemkv if you want a digital file to stream and play. AnyDVD and Rip to ISO and use IMGburn to write it to a blank DVD-R.

[netmask56]

I have transferred my entire DVD, BD and UHD BD discs to MKV and then to my NAS, main movie only, using MakeMKV. Simple and straight forward. So far with over 1000 discs I haven't had any problems other than one TV series disc, Eureka, where they authored incorrectly the episode numbers on the final disc. MakeMKV will make a ISO file of the entire disc if you wish but only for BD. My playback unit is the Zidoo UHD3000 media player. IMO MKV is far better than MP4 as it's an easy matter to add or remove tracks using MKVToolNix, very quick a matter of minutes.

Editing of both MKV and MP4 files is to the nearest key frame so you can't always get a frame accurate edit without re-encoding unless you have a editing program that has smart edits where re-encoding is restricted to around the edit point. So you can't just "snip out" easily.


Playing back via a decent high end media player and as the source as MKV you could add bookmarks around the offending scene and then skip over it with a button push. No loss of quality that way.

[TubeBar]

Of course your other option is to simply lose the DVD-R.

Since you appear to love this rare gem so much, and appear to be a bit paranoid in creating a 1:1 copy (which you technically probably don't even have) as I am pretty sure it's a DVD-R Library backup copy (they have the original DVD-ROM) why not just "lose" it? Tell them you lost the disc, it happens. How much are they possibly going to charge you for a cheapy DVD-R Backup? Then your 1:1 problem is solved.

Sure it's a little unethical but considering what you want and how much you seem to love this movie, eh, why not?

[TubeBar]

I have transferred my entire DVD, BD and UHD BD discs to MKV and then to my NAS, main movie only, using MakeMKV. Simple and straight forward. So far with over 1000 discs I haven't had any problems other than one TV series disc, Eureka, where they authored incorrectly the episode numbers on the final disc. MakeMKV will make a ISO file of the entire disc if you wish but only for BD. My playback unit is the Zidoo UHD3000 media player. IMO MKV is far better than MP4 as it's an easy matter to add or remove tracks using MKVToolNix, very quick a matter of minutes.

Only issue with MKV is he loses the menu and 1:1 DVD Navigation. Unless all he cares about is the main movie, I agree makeMKV that's what I use too. I don't have a NAS yet thinking about it though.

[Alwyn]

Some info re MKV:

MKV is a container, like MP4. It's the underlying codec that is generally of interest here.

The underlying codec of DVDs is MPEG 2. The underlying file codec of MP4 is usually H264/AVC. H264 is more space-efficient than MPEG 2, but since space isn't an issue, you're better off staying with MPEG 2.

If you rip a DVD without shrinking/encoding, you'll end up with MPEG 2 codec files in the VOB container. Or, if you use MakeMKV to "Save selected Titles", you'll end up with MPEG 2 codec files in the MKV container.

MakeMKV's "Backup" feature will rip the DVD into an ISO on you hard drive. You can then burn that to your own DVD (but if it's a long DVD that spans dual layers, other problems arise and I can't help you with that).

If all you want to do is view/store the main movie without all the menus and other stuff, you can use MKV to create that MKV.

Most editors will edit MKVs. If not, you can losslessly convert an MKV to an MPEG 2 file quickly with AVIDemux.

And if all you want is an MPEG 2, I believe you can use DVDecryptor to rip the main movie straight to MPEG 2.

[Alwyn]

MakeMKV will make a ISO file of the entire disc if you wish but only for BD.

Not so. I just ripped a DVD (not BD) with MakeMKV into ISO. I did it with my computer DVD/BD writer.

[TubeBar]

MakeMKV will make a ISO file of the entire disc if you wish but only for BD.

Not so. I just ripped a DVD (not BD) with MakeMKV into ISO. I did it with my computer DVD/BD writer.

I only rip UHDs w/ MAKEMKV these days and never see an ISO option, not that I looked very hard since I don't use it. I guess they have it for DVD and in that case, go w/ MAKEMKV.

Do 2 rips. One for your DVD-R ISO and an MKV for video.

I don't even think mp4 container supports MPEG-2 video now that I think about it.

[johns0]

Back in the past makemkv only let you make iso out of blu-ray but have since fixed it so dvd can be made into iso files.

[dped91]

MakeMKV will make a ISO file of the entire disc if you wish but only for BD. My playback unit is the Zidoo UHD3000 media player. IMO MKV is far better than MP4 as it's an easy matter to add or remove tracks using MKVToolNix, very quick a matter of minutes.

Editing of both MKV and MP4 files is to the nearest key frame so you can't always get a frame accurate edit without re-encoding unless you have a editing program that has smart edits where re-encoding is restricted to around the edit point. So you can't just "snip out" easily.

Playing back via a decent high end media player and as the source as MKV you could add bookmarks around the offending scene and then skip over it with a button push. No loss of quality that way.

Will any Zidoo hardware play DVD and BD discs? And do they have slow motion and zoom in controls? And can you center the zoomed in image on the screen with the remote, like I can with my Pioneer LX500?

While my HDPC's LG BD drive and the external Pioneer BD drive I will probably buy will no doubt play ISO files burned to a disc-which I would then play via VLC or JRiver players-my standalone Oppo 95 and Pioneer LX500 players won't, so I might as well leave the rip as is and just play the MKV file-unless there's another lossless "container" (??) format that the MPE2 or MKV can be saved onto a DVD-R that would be playable on my Oppo and Pioneer BD players.

Do any all of these optional versions of Power Director have "smart edits"?
https://www.cyberlink.com/store/powerdirector-video-editing-software/buy_en_US.html If not, what editing software does? But how badly would the learning curve hurt my newbie brain for what I want to do?

[dped91]

Some info re MKV:

MKV is a container, like MP4. It's the underlying codec that is generally of interest here.

The underlying codec of DVDs is MPEG 2. The underlying file codec of MP4 is usually H264/AVC. H264 is more space-efficient than MPEG 2, but since space isn't an issue, you're better off staying with MPEG 2.

If you rip a DVD without shrinking/encoding, you'll end up with MPEG 2 codec files in the VOB container. Or, if you use MakeMKV to "Save selected Titles", you'll end up with MPEG 2 codec files in the MKV container.

MakeMKV's "Backup" feature will rip the DVD into an ISO on you hard drive. You can then burn that to your own DVD (but if it's a long DVD that spans dual layers, other problems arise and I can't help you with that).

If all you want to do is view/store the main movie without all the menus and other stuff, you can use MKV to create that MKV.

Most editors will edit MKVs. If not, you can losslessly convert an MKV to an MPEG 2 file quickly with AVIDemux.

And if all you want is an MPEG 2, I believe you can use DVDecryptor to rip the main movie straight to MPEG 2.

Thanks for this; fills in the knowledge gaps pretty well.

[dped91]

Of course your other option is to simply lose the DVD-R. Since you appear to love this rare gem so much, and appear to be a bit paranoid in creating a 1:1 copy (which you technically probably don't even have) as I am pretty sure it's a DVD-R Library backup copy (they have the original DVD-ROM) why not just "lose" it? Tell them you lost the disc, it happens. How much are they possibly going to charge you for a cheapy DVD-R Backup? Then your 1:1 problem is solved.

Sure it's a little unethical but considering what you want and how much you seem to love this movie, eh, why not?

Thanks guys; this is surely the place to get so educated. The surface of this disc that I borrowed from the public library does have that bluish look to it and it also looks to be completely without any scratches. So, both facts hint that it's a burned not pressed DVD, and that it was likely a recent burn. However, as I can't be sure that the library didn't just "polish" (?) the scratches out of their only copy-or if this was their only copy and that somehow miraculously avoided being scratched up by users-my conscience would get in the way with solving my problem that way. And along with the stunning SW landscapes which draw me like steel to a magnet, because everything about this movie is so rare and splendid, I wouldn't think of denying others a chance to see it.

Of course, were it not for Disney there would likely be no problems with buying the movie on disc.

But for now, to make a lossless copy of "From Hell to Texas", I went here to download. https://www.videohelp.com/software/MakeMKV But what's the difference between the free and pay version? I went here but couldn't find out. https://www.videohelp.com/software/MakeMKV#otherdownloads

Or would it be any easier for a newbie to rip the disc and save the MPEG2 to the MKV container file by using the trial version of AnyDVD HD?

[TubeBar]

Back in the past makemkv only let you make iso out of blu-ray but have since fixed it so dvd can be made into iso files.

I don't recall makeMKV being able to do ISOs but like most people I would rip to mkv file anyway. I know they don't for UHD which is what I mostly rip these days. For those who need it that's a nice feature that it does do ISO for DVD as some people still like burning to DVD-R for whatever reasons.

Do any all of these optional versions of Power Director have "smart edits"?
https://www.cyberlink.com/store/powerdirector-video-editing-software/buy_en_US.html If not, what editing software does? But how badly would the learning curve hurt my newbie brain for what I want to do?

I personally prefer TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer for lossless editing. Though there are some free tools that will do it as well. Not sure on cyberlink one as I never used it.

Thanks guys; this is surely the place to get so educated. The surface of this disc that I borrowed from the public library does have that bluish look to it and it also looks to be completely without any scratches. So, both facts hint that it's a burned not pressed DVD, and that it was likely a recent burn. However, as I can't be sure that the library didn't just "polish" (?) the scratches out of their only copy-or if this was their only copy and that somehow miraculously avoided being scratched up by users-my conscience would get in the way with solving my problem that way. And along with the stunning SW landscapes which draw me like steel to a magnet, because everything about this movie is so rare and splendid, I wouldn't think of denying others a chance to see it.

I've only ever seen purple DVD-R/+R unlike CD-R and BD-R, XL etc. that seem to come in many colors. DVD-ROM's are usually silver or gold. There are tools to check what type of physical media it is if you care.

[TubeBar]

No big learning curve on TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer, as with most smart-editing software it's not a very complicated task.

[dped91]

No big learning curve on TMPGEnc MPEG Smart Renderer, as with most smart-editing software it's not a very complicated task.

That's nice to hear, especially since I'm only looking to snip out a few "frames" (?).

Yes, the DVD-R of interest does look a lot more purple than blue.

But for now, to make a lossless copy of "From Hell to Texas", I went here to download. https://www.videohelp.com/software/MakeMKV

But what's the difference between the free and pay version? I went here but couldn't find out. https://www.videohelp.com/software/MakeMKV#otherdownloads

Or would it be any easier for a newbie to rip the disc and save the MPEG2 to a MKV container file by using the trial version of AnyDVD HD?

[johns0]

The pay version doesn't need to be updated with new serial numbers all the time.

[dped91]

Some info re MKV:

MKV is a container, like MP4. It's the underlying codec that is generally of interest here.

The underlying codec of DVDs is MPEG 2. The underlying file codec of MP4 is usually H264/AVC. H264 is more space-efficient than MPEG 2, but since space isn't an issue, you're better off staying with MPEG 2.

If you rip a DVD without shrinking/encoding, you'll end up with MPEG 2 codec files in the VOB container. Or, if you use MakeMKV to "Save selected Titles", you'll end up with MPEG 2 codec files in the MKV container.

MakeMKV's "Backup" feature will rip the DVD into an ISO on you hard drive. You can then burn that to your own DVD (but if it's a long DVD that spans dual layers, other problems arise and I can't help you with that).

If all you want to do is view/store the main movie without all the menus and other stuff, you can use MKV to create that MKV.

Most editors will edit MKVs. If not, you can losslessly convert an MKV to an MPEG 2 file quickly with AVIDemux.

And if all you want is an MPEG 2, I believe you can use DVDecryptor to rip the main movie straight to MPEG 2.

What I don't get why does this wiki report classify MPEG2 as lossy but H.264 as (optionally?) lossy or lossless, especially since they're saying that H.264 is associated with MPEG4, which is probably a lot more lossy than MPEG2.

[Alwyn]

H.264 as (optionally?) lossy or lossless

I think H264 can be "lossless" if you ramp up the bitrate to the stratospheric levels eg "Placebo".

[TubeBar]

Yea h264 has that Placebo level so it's lossless. You don't want to use that as file size like any lossless will be ridiculously large, bigger than the MPEG2 DVD.

[TubeBar]

Is this the DVD you are looking for? At least 1 seller has it for $40 on ebay looks to be the NTSC R1 release https://www.ebay.com/itm/266338749818

[netmask56]

MakeMKV will make a ISO file of the entire disc if you wish but only for BD. My playback unit is the Zidoo UHD3000 media player. IMO MKV is far better than MP4 as it's an easy matter to add or remove tracks using MKVToolNix, very quick a matter of minutes.

Editing of both MKV and MP4 files is to the nearest key frame so you can't always get a frame accurate edit without re-encoding unless you have a editing program that has smart edits where re-encoding is restricted to around the edit point. So you can't just "snip out" easily.

Playing back via a decent high end media player and as the source as MKV you could add bookmarks around the offending scene and then skip over it with a button push. No loss of quality that way.

Will any Zidoo hardware play DVD and BD discs? And do they have slow motion and zoom in controls? And can you center the zoomed in image on the screen with the remote, like I can with my Pioneer LX500?

While my HDPC's LG BD drive and the external Pioneer BD drive I will probably buy will no doubt play ISO files burned to a disc-which I would then play via VLC or JRiver players-my standalone Oppo 95 and Pioneer LX500 players won't, so I might as well leave the rip as is and just play the MKV file-unless there's another lossless "container" (??) format that the MPE2 or MKV can be saved onto a DVD-R that would be playable on my Oppo and Pioneer BD players.

Do any all of these optional versions of Power Director have "smart edits"?
https://www.cyberlink.com/store/powerdirector-video-editing-software/buy_en_US.html If not, what editing software does? But how badly would the learning curve hurt my newbie brain for what I want to do?

Will any Zidoo hardware play DVD and BD discs?

No. Zidoo is not a physical disc player - files only. https://www.zidoo.tv/Product/index/model/UHD5000/target/SGlS2hlXYyJKKmVViAFMcQ%3D%3D.html

[TubeBar]

MakeMKV will make a ISO file of the entire disc if you wish but only for BD. My playback unit is the Zidoo UHD3000 media player. IMO MKV is far better than MP4 as it's an easy matter to add or remove tracks using MKVToolNix, very quick a matter of minutes.

Editing of both MKV and MP4 files is to the nearest key frame so you can't always get a frame accurate edit without re-encoding unless you have a editing program that has smart edits where re-encoding is restricted to around the edit point. So you can't just "snip out" easily.

Playing back via a decent high end media player and as the source as MKV you could add bookmarks around the offending scene and then skip over it with a button push. No loss of quality that way.

Will any Zidoo hardware play DVD and BD discs? And do they have slow motion and zoom in controls? And can you center the zoomed in image on the screen with the remote, like I can with my Pioneer LX500?

While my HDPC's LG BD drive and the external Pioneer BD drive I will probably buy will no doubt play ISO files burned to a disc-which I would then play via VLC or JRiver players-my standalone Oppo 95 and Pioneer LX500 players won't, so I might as well leave the rip as is and just play the MKV file-unless there's another lossless "container" (??) format that the MPE2 or MKV can be saved onto a DVD-R that would be playable on my Oppo and Pioneer BD players.

Do any all of these optional versions of Power Director have "smart edits"?
https://www.cyberlink.com/store/powerdirector-video-editing-software/buy_en_US.html If not, what editing software does? But how badly would the learning curve hurt my newbie brain for what I want to do?

Will any Zidoo hardware play DVD and BD discs?

No. Zidoo is not a physical disc player - files only. https://www.zidoo.tv/Product/index/model/UHD5000/target/SGlS2hlXYyJKKmVViAFMcQ%3D%3D.html

Wow that looks really nice, thinking about buying one of these myself but obviously clearly not cheap.

[dped91]

Is this the DVD you are looking for? At least 1 seller has it for $40 on ebay looks to be the NTSC R1 release https://www.ebay.com/itm/266338749818

Box looks identical to my library's copy. BUT theirs is widescreen while the specs of the ebay seller's copy says it's 4:3. No thanks! Unless he's mistaken. But vintage Fox DVD releases are frequently xxked up in one way or another. Some have great picture and sound quality like this one I borrowed; but most have mediocre to poor sound quality-mostly because those Fox bean counting morons would trash audio masters to save on storage space. And sometimes those dopes would trash or somehow lose a widescreen negative, so there end up being nothing left for the DVD release but some pan and scan print they had made for TV syndicating, like this title. https://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/61149/goodbye-charlie/

[dped91]

Yea h264 has that Placebo level so it's lossless. You don't want to use that as file size like any lossless will be ridiculously large, bigger than the MPEG2 DVD.

[TubeBar]

Is this the DVD you are looking for? At least 1 seller has it for $40 on ebay looks to be the NTSC R1 release https://www.ebay.com/itm/266338749818

Box looks identical to my library's copy. BUT theirs is widescreen while the specs of the ebay seller's copy says it's 4:3. No thanks! Unless he's mistaken. But vintage Fox DVD releases are frequently xxked up in one way or another. Some have great picture and sound quality like this one I borrowed; but most have mediocre to poor sound quality-mostly because those Fox bean counting morons would trash audio masters to save on storage space. And sometimes those dopes would trash or somehow lose a widescreen negative, so there end up being nothing left for the DVD release but some pan and scan print they had made for TV syndicating, like this title. https://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/61149/goodbye-charlie/

There was only 1 pressing for R1 NTSC so it wouldn't use a different master. It's 4:3 Letterbox which is widescreen with black bars encoded on top and bottom. Check one of your VOB files w/ MediaInfo I bet any money it says 4:3. And if you open your DVD's IFO w/ IFOedit I bet it says 4:3 Letterbox.

[dped91]

I don't have either of those apps on my pc but on the back of the box it does say "4:3 letterbox". But like "Goodbye Charlie" it was originally shot in VERY widescreen 2:35:1. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051636/technical/?ref_=ttfc_sa_5 As for the Ebay item, the seller gives next to no description about the physical condition of the actual disc surface, nor any photos of same. So this weekend I might as well install MakeMKV and rip the library disc, which I know plays fine.

[Alwyn]

on the back of the box it does say "4:3 letterbox". But like "Goodbye Charlie" it was originally shot in VERY widescreen 2:35:1.

That makes sense. The letterboxing will be on the top and bottom. The video was, no doubt, "designed" for a 4:3 TV.

[TubeBar]

I don't have either of those apps on my pc but on the back of the box it does say "4:3 letterbox". But like "Goodbye Charlie" it was originally shot in VERY widescreen 2:35:1. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051636/technical/?ref_=ttfc_sa_5 As for the Ebay item, the seller gives next to no description about the physical condition of the actual disc surface, nor any photos of same. So this weekend I might as well install MakeMKV and rip the library disc, which I know plays fine.

The point was it's the same pressing, same rare disc you wanted to buy but couldn't. That Fox Disc he has is pressed, he dropped the price and if you've ever used ebay simply ask the seller what the Cond. is. It all depends on how bad you want a legit copy that you know is 1:1.

[TubeBar]

on the back of the box it does say "4:3 letterbox". But like "Goodbye Charlie" it was originally shot in VERY widescreen 2:35:1.

That makes sense. The letterboxing will be on the top and bottom. The video was, no doubt, "designed" for a 4:3 TV.

Yea the old crappy fake widescreen discs we used to get. I think the resolution is around 360 if it's a 16:9 video, when get into Cinema scope you have more black then video.

Bad news for you is that you need to crop out those black borders in order to watch it full screen, unless your TV has a zoom button.

[dped91]

I have transferred my entire DVD, BD and UHD BD discs to MKV and then to my NAS, main movie only, using MakeMKV. Simple and straight forward. So far with over 1000 discs I haven't had any problems other than one TV series disc, Eureka, where they authored incorrectly the episode numbers on the final disc. MakeMKV will make a ISO file of the entire disc if you wish but only for BD. My playback unit is the Zidoo UHD3000 media player. IMO MKV is far better than MP4 as it's an easy matter to add or remove tracks using MKVToolNix, very quick a matter of minutes.

Editing of both MKV and MP4 files is to the nearest key frame so you can't always get a frame accurate edit without re-encoding unless you have a editing program that has smart edits where re-encoding is restricted to around the edit point. So you can't just "snip out" easily.


Playing back via a decent high end media player and as the source as MKV you could add bookmarks around the offending scene and then skip over it with a button push. No loss of quality that way.

Since I want to avoid losing quality, especially when only wanting to do something as simple as deleting small numbers of frames, Octocontrabass at Hydrogenaudio said "Personally, I'd use MKVToolNix, but LosslessCut is probably more what you're looking for. " Any experience with it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LosslessCut

Would the learning curve be short enough for my newbie brain?