RCA yellow to HDMI picture gets darker and lose detail.

[anonymoustly]

Use that small cheap AVtoHDMI boxes from china.
How it can be? and can this been solved?

Original

[Attachment 72394 - Click to enlarge]

AVtoHDMI

[Attachment 72395 - Click to enlarge]

[Eric-jan]

Don't use China boxes ? even correcting (adding contrast) you loose your shadow details permanently…

[anonymoustly]

Then wich box must i used every box come from China.

i have found that a lower resolution capture make it darker how this can be???

low resolution

[Attachment 72400 - Click to enlarge]
higher resolution

[Attachment 72401 - Click to enlarge]

[jagabo]

You might be able to recover some of the dark details with proper handling.

[TubeBar]

Could be a number of reasons including cheap china box. What capture software are you using for starters? Are you upscaling the image? Why are you even doing an analog transfer? What is the source? Kind of looks like APS though not sure that would be present over HDMI.

[anonymoustly]

What is APS? Source is VHS, but even at a 1080 file the problem occurs, so can not a peoblem of VHS.
I use OBS.

[TubeBar]

What is APS? Source is VHS, but even at a 1080 file the problem occurs, so can not a peoblem of VHS.
I use OBS.

APS was the old Analog Copy Protection (aka MacroVision) that was put on some commercial VHS tapes. It causes the video to fade from dark to light and screws up VHS copies. If it's a VHS commercial movie (i.e. Disney being notorious for that) it's possible APS is on there. Even if it's analog and doesn't normally go through HDMI it's possible some of those errors are effecting it.

It could be other VHS issues, a video stabilizer should correct the fade whether it's APS or not. I kind of doubt it's APS because you're connected through HDMI but kind of irrelevant. I'd try a video stabilizer to fix that fade issue.

I'm not the VHS expert so perhaps one of them can better help you w/ this issue.

[Eric-jan]

The cheap China stuff will not handle color or brightness in a good fashion, so wrong point to start from, using a good converter > analog to digital (HDMI/SDI) is better, but first you need to have a stable video signal.
It will cost some money, otherwise you should not complain about quality the China stuff gives you, it takes a lot of work to make it presentable.
btw. what is your video source ? which VCR ? with more information you can be better helped.

[anonymoustly]

Sharp VC-M31

[TubeBar]

The cheap China stuff will not handle color or brightness in a good fashion, so wrong point to start from, using a good converter > analog to digital (HDMI/SDI) is better, but first you need to have a stable video signal.
It will cost some money, otherwise you should not complain about quality the China stuff gives you, it takes a lot of work to make it presentable.
btw. what is your video source ? which VCR ? with more information you can be better helped.

Would one of those cheapy video stabilizers (i.e. Macrovision killer boxes) help improve his dark/fade issue? I still haven't gotten around to VHS conversions yet due to time and money, to do it right I know it's not cheap or fast

[Eric-jan]

Sharp VC-M31

So i guess not many extra features available i guess… a better VCR could also be better option to avoid some problems.
My experience lies mostly with Panasonic, and experimenting with (good) converters, and field recorder(s)
Using a computer for capture is getting harder all the time, due to "progress"

Would one of those cheapy video stabilizers (i.e. Macrovision killer boxes) help improve his dark/fade issue? I still haven't gotten around to VHS conversions yet due to time and money, to do it right I know it's not cheap or fast

it still stays "scratching at the surface" from what i've heard there are two or more types of Macrovision.
for me, using component video, set to progressive in the DMR-ES35V and capturing this with the Intensity Shuttle (TB2) worked, because the software supported 625p50,
never updated the software for the Intensity Shuttle, afraid that option would be removed, The Analog to SDI converter i am now using does not support 625p50.
When buying hardware or using software you must look into these details, just buying something is no guarantee for succes.
It's easier to spend money, then spend a lot of time in post is my motto with the cheap China stuff it's more miss then hit, or you have to accept some quality imperfections to a degree.

[Eric-jan]

> snip
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[TubeBar]

Sharp VC-M31

So i guess not many extra features available i guess… a better VCR could also be better option to avoid some problems.
My experience lies mostly with Panasonic, and experimenting with (good) converters, and field recorder(s)
Using a computer for capture is getting harder all the time, due to "progress"

Would one of those cheapy video stabilizers (i.e. Macrovision killer boxes) help improve his dark/fade issue? I still haven't gotten around to VHS conversions yet due to time and money, to do it right I know it's not cheap or fast

it still stays "scratching at the surface" from what i've heard there are two or more types of Macrovision.
for me, using component video, set to progressive in the DMR-ES35V and capturing this with the Intensity Shuttle (TB2) worked, because the software supported 625p50,
never updated the software for the Intensity Shuttle, afraid that option would be removed, The Analog to SDI converter i am now using does not support 625p50.
When buying hardware or using software you must look into these details, just buying something is no guarantee for succes.
It's easier to spend money, then spend a lot of time in post is my motto with the cheap China stuff it's more miss then hit, or you have to accept some quality imperfections to a degree.

At least w/ DVD there were Macrovision Types 1, 2 & 3 but they were just flags. You're right I forgot about their being at least 3 types, VHS could have had more.

There are VCRs that output component progressive video? The best I have is S-Video not even sure that is better than composite (I have heard it's not).

That's my first step buying a pro VCR, I know will take time hunting down the right unit.

At least for me these days I don't own a PC that I could install an internal capture card. All my computers are all-one or laptops (HP Envy, iMac, Macbook) I would need an external capture device not sure that they are as good?

[Eric-jan]

@TubeBar: This thread is started by anonymoustly, please start your own one for your questions.

[TubeBar]

@TubeBar: This thread is started by anonymoustly, please start your own one for your questions.

Sorry didn't mean to go off on a bunch of questions. I'm researching it.

[Eric-jan]

@TubeBar: This thread is started by anonymoustly, please start your own one for your questions.

Sorry didn't mean to go off on a bunch of questions. I'm researching it.

Start another thread, and i'll be happy to help you !

[Eric-jan]

The Sharp VC-M31 does't support the HiFi sound, i have the VC-MH71, which shares the same manual, and does have HiFi sound, to have good sound quality, try to find a VCR that supports HiFi sound this is really needed, if the Sharp VC-M31 isn't the recorder the recordings where made on, due to different azimuth, sound will not sound sharp, with HiFi sound playback you can adjust "tracking" and the sound will be much better.
Elgato and Avermedia, and StarTech, make better capture devices, but still you need a stable video signal, this can be done with a DVD recorder as pasthrough device, A real Time Base Corrector can be very expensive, and are very rare, because the good ones are refurbished models, (old faulty parts are replaced) and this is done to great extend….
btw.. you should not upscale the video, how do you "record" from HDMI ? a recorder ? what settings ? PAL/NTSC model ? or also a China recorder ?
The more info you give the better people can help you, using only China stuff you can't expect too much of it, workflow does matter…..

[TubeBar]

@TubeBar: This thread is started by anonymoustly, please start your own one for your questions.

I just did Thanks Eric.

[anonymoustly]

Is there anyonehere who have a scart/RCA to HDMI converter that did not wrecks the picture and can let me view that, with photo's/schreenshots?

[dellsam34]

Analog to HDMI adapters don't adhere to rec.601 standard for capturing analog video and should be avoided at all cost, Even the brand names from back in the day were strictly used as scalers for display purposes with HD panels, never intended for capturing analog video, never will. Chinese knockoffs are made for retro gaming and analog CCTV cameras not VHS. Since they don't conform to the standard, levels are wrong for luma and chroma, bad de-interlacing, often wrong aspect ratio and wrong resolution.

[anonymoustly]

so there is no converter without these problems?

[dellsam34]

I don't know if there is no converter without all those problems, but I do know using the hammer to drive a screw is wrong. So use the right tool for the job.

[Eric-jan]

you need to convert to rec.709 because no digital tv will display rec.601, rec.601 is the old analog "way", any prosumer converter wil do this for you, most consumer capture or converters will do you for full range (this is wrong) because these are meant for computer or game consoles.
best convert from component video which is available on some recorders or combo's.
any tweaking on color or brightness will give you losses in other parts like gradation in shadows or tints, for you to decide if you want to adjust contrast or not.

[dellsam34]

No, you should capture in rec.601 and only convert to rec.709 when you resize and encode to HD, Those HDMI devices are not doing it for you, they are simply doing it wrong, that's why the levels are all over the place, Use good HDMI scalers for displaying purposes not capturing, and avoid all Chinese analog to HDMI adapters for display and analog capture.

[lollo]

rec.601 is the old analog

No. Rec.601 is how you should capture Analog SD. And (generally) no component.

[anonymoustly]

The TV has scart connector (however it is broken/stuck) and RF analolog tuner with anti noise filter. So yes it thing it don't support Rec 601.

Also if the chinese stuff is crap why are a HDMI to RCA do the job right with correct collors, brigness and contrast?

[dellsam34]

That's what you think.

[lollo]

That's what you think.

I suspect we are loosing our time...

[Eric-jan]

That's what you think.

I suspect we are loosing our time...

Yes we do, because the only answer is to do it right or wrong, there is no way to correct a wrong color space, you always "loose" in the end,
hardware just uses one or the other, software should be set to that, if possible.
I've never seen in any specs of a analog VHS VCR manual that it complies to rec.601, only analog studios could do that, if they ever did. if any VCR did, a consumer could not afford to pay for that color space between SD and HD are only very minute, and due to quality not noticeable to the human eye. we are talking about VHS here
Even when studios were digital it was converted to analog to be transported to the homes of the consumer with their old recieving equipment, don't know even, if DVB-C became a well spread standard.
Due to bad media providers (no choice to make) i quit my subscription (still RF over coax) and went for a FTA DVB-S set, which was still SD MPEG2 at that time, FullHD test were done at that time too, strangely enough, which is now MP4 i guess...

[lollo]

Yes we do, because the only answer is to do it right or wrong, there is no way to correct a wrong color space, you always "loose" in the end,
hardware just uses one or the other, software should be set to that, if possible.
I've never seen in any specs of a analog VHS VCR manual that it complies to rec.601, only studios could do that, if they ever did. if any VCR did, a consumer could not afford to pay for that color space between SD and HD are only very minute, and due to quality not noticeable to the human eye

Eric, I do not understand what you are trying to prove here. Analog is analog, and no VCR can refer to Rec.601 specification. It plays a role only when you digitize the signal.
The difference between 601 and 709 is not that small, and is noticeable to human eye. We have several topics in the forum about that.

we are talking about VHS here

Sure, but VHS when properly captured is not that bad. And a poor RCA to HDMI converter doesn't do it justice!