DV-AVI best format for viewing on a TV

[Alwyn]

I'd be trimming and saving with Virtual Dub2, using Direct Stream Copy. Save runs of QTGMC, if not blood sweat and tears getting the frame numbers right.

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks jagabo. I'm glad I finally got there, thank you for your help. When eventually I get to some of my earliest tapes that are approx. 2 hours long they can have as many as 16 small gaps to remove. Just checking there is no limit on the amount of trim()++ you can use consecutively in a script? Thanks.

[Alwyn]

2 hours long they can have as many as 16 small gaps to remove.

With mouse/wheel Mark In, Mark Out hit DEL done!

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks Alwyn. I've used Virtualdub 2 to save clips for uploading using Direct Stream copy but I've never tried to do any trimming. I thought that Avisynth was maybe a better option but that's probably based on the fact I'm slightly more familiar with it. I've never heard mention of mouse/wheel with regards to Virtualdub 2 editing. However if this was a better option when doing multiple cuts? it would be worth me researching it. I will look it up.

[jagabo]

Sorry, I assumed you already knew about Direct Stream Copy for cut/paste/saving DV AVI clips with VirtualDub(2).

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks jagabo. Do you think this would be a better option when I start doing my 2 hour videos with more cuts? I assume that you would do the cuts on Virtualdub 2 and save as a Direct Stream Copy before making a script in Avisynth? Thanks.

[jagabo]

Thanks jagabo. Do you think this would be a better option when I start doing my 2 hour videos with more cuts?

Yes. If you want to save individual short clips you mark-in, mark-out, Save Video to save each clip. If you want to remove multiple sections and leave what's left as one file you mark-in, mark-out, delete for all the parts you want to discard, then Save Video with what's left. All Direct Stream Copy for video and audio.

I assume that you would do the cuts on Virtualdub 2 and save as a Direct Stream Copy before making a script in Avisynth?

I would only use AviSynth if you want to deinterlace with QTGMC.

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks jagabo. I will research that tomorrow and post. Once I finish encoding my DV videos I was going to do most of my other videos interlaced. Is it feasible to do Crop, add borders, joining videos on Avisynth rather than starting to learn all over again with Virtualdub 2 if this isn't going to be detrimental to the videos? If the Virtualdub 2 method of cuts is better than trim() maybe I could do that first. However, if you think it better that I learn to do these edits with Virtualdub 2 I will start learning how to use that instead. Thanks.

[Alwyn]

If you can understand Australian... my one-take spiel on VDub 2 editing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2ZQnFgvbrM

You can also join videos using File>Append Video Segment.

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks Alwyn. Your video will be a good starting point, I need to get familiar with the editing side of Virtualdub 2

[SkyBlues2021]

I've been looking at Virtualdub 2 editing. I've really struggled to replicate the crop add borders from Avisynth. I've used the resize filter and I removed 20 from the side and top as a rough test but I didn't know how to put a border(mask) around it (if this filter even does this?) null transform seems to be a crop filter. I read of a border control filter but I haven't tried it. Any pointers as to what I'm doing wrong would be welcome. Thanks.

[jagabo]

Apply the Crop filter first, then use the resize filter to Letterbox/Crop To Size.

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks jagabo. I will try that now. I been reading about Virtualdub editing all day and it seems to be more limited than Avisynth maybe that's opinion based on my ignorance and the fact is that I'm a little bit more comfortable with Avisynth, I'm not sure.

[jagabo]

Yes, AviSynth is much more powerful than VirtualDub's when it comes to editing and filtering. But most people find a GUI to be much easier to use.

The big benefit of using VirtualDub in Direct Stream Copy mode for simple cut/paste editing is that it's lossless. The DV that comes out is exactly the same as the DV that went in. That's true of other intraframe codecs too (huffyuv, lagarith, ut video codec, etc.). AviSynth only works with uncompressed video internally. So DV that comes in is converted to uncompressed YUV and/or RGB, then converted back to DV or encoded with some other codec.

[lollo]

Because an AviSynth script is used anyhow, there is no reason to do the trimming in VirtualDub, with the additional penalty of creating an useless intermediate file, rather than directly in AviSynth.

Use VirtualDub only to open the source file and find the frame numbers to be written in the AviSynth script, prior to any other processing, as indicated earlier by jagabo.

(VirtualDub frame serving could be used, but that's another story)

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks jagabo for explaining that. Does that mean that as some of my analogue captures only need crop & add borders, gaps deleted and joined together that this amount of editing could be done in one sitting and then saved as a Direct Stream Copy? I've attached my crop and preview of resize. I left "code friendly sizing" as default as I wasn't that sure of any of my settings if I'm honest. Tomorrow I will try the File> Append video segment to join two videos together that Alwyn mentioned and the Mark in-Mark out you mentioned. Thanks.

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks lollo. My initial worry was that there would be a limit on the number of Trim()++Trim()++Trim() that you can use in a script in Avisynth.

[lollo]

Thanks lollo. My initial worry was that there would be a limit on the number of Trim()++Trim()++Trim() that you can use in a script in Avisynth.

No problem, we are all here to help you, if possible

[jagabo]

Does that mean that as some of my analogue captures only need crop & add borders, gaps deleted and joined together that this amount of editing could be done in one sitting and then saved as a Direct Stream Copy?

No. The only thing you can do in Direct Stream Copy mode is cut/paste editing; no filtering. Filtering (crop, resize, addborders are filters) requires the frames be decompressed, modified, then re-compressed.

DV is an all intra-frame* codec. Each frame is compressed much like a JPEG image. So the video is something like a collection of JPEG images, stored one after another. You can re-arrange those images and store them as a new DV file without decompressing them (in practice an editor will also separately decompress the images to display them on the screen so you can see what you're doing).


* With inter-frame codecs most frames "reference" other frames. I.e., logically they something like "copy the previous frame, then copy these parts of those other frames, and finally add these changes..." If you cut away those reference frames the frames that reference them can't be reconstructed.

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks jagabo. Sorry I meant to say these would be my analogue captures not DV. Would that mean I could do the cut/paste editing> save as Direct Stream Copy and then when I'm ready to encode do the filtering then encode to MP4 straight afterwards. Thanks.

[jagabo]

I don't remember -- are you capturing your analog tapes with a DV camcorder or other DV device? Then they are DV video. If you are using some other device and capturing YUV uncompressed, or with a lossless or near-lossless all i-frame codec, you can cut/paste edit with Direct Stream Copy those too.

[Alwyn]

Because an AviSynth script is used anyhow, there is no reason to do the trimming in VirtualDub, with the additional penalty of creating an useless intermediate file, rather than directly in AviSynth.

Sorry for being blunt, but that's nonsense. The only reason AVISynth is even needed here is to run QTGMC. If it wasn't for that, all trimming, cropping and resizing could be done more easily in VDub.

Having to open the file in VDub, then open the AVS, type in the trim points, only to then re-open in VDub again really is making life more difficult than it needs to be.

Open the QTGMC AVS in VDub, set up the edit/trim with the In and Out selection on the visual timeline, crop visually and resize, then export as H264 (optionally, do all your segments at once using the Queue batch feature). Done.

@Skyblues2021, re cropping, here's what I do. Just crop in the ratio of 4:3. Drag the edges in or use the numerical tumblers, your choice. If you take take 8 (total) from the sides, take 6 total off the top and bottom. I do not add borders. I don't want black edges around my videos. Yes, I delete/crop/remove, so lose a few pixels. I then use the Resize filter: tick "Aspect Ratio": Disabled. I type in 768 and 576 in the Absolute Pixels boxes and that's that. For the H264 export I leave the SAR as 1 and 1.

Does that mean that as some of my analogue captures only need crop & add borders, gaps deleted and joined together that this amount of editing could be done in one sitting and then saved as a Direct Stream Copy?

Simple trims/deletions will Direct Stream Copy. Anything else will require a recompress of some kind. Note that when in Direct Stream Copy mode, the "Filters" menu item is greyed out so you cannot "modify" your video at all.

[lollo]

The only reason AVISynth is even needed here is to run QTGMC.

Then stay in AviSynth.

VirtualDub is not needed for h264 compression (BTW you wrote about useless Direct Stream Copy in your first post); in my approach the AviSynth script is open in a ffmpeg command line. So, for me, the non sense is the usage of useless GUIs, but obviously everybody has his preferences.

Edit: added quote

[Sharc]

@Skyblues2021, re cropping, here's what I do. Just crop in the ratio of 4:3. Drag the edges in or use the numerical tumblers, your choice. If you take take 8 (total) from the sides, take 6 total off the top and bottom. I do not add borders. I don't want black edges around my videos. Yes, I delete/crop/remove, so lose a few pixels. I then use the Resize filter: tick "Aspect Ratio": Disabled. I type in 768 and 576 in the Absolute Pixels boxes and that's that. For the H264 export I leave the SAR as 1 and 1.

Hmmm... with some notes:
Firstly you should deinterlace the interlaced capture in order to avoid mingling up the fields when cropping and vertical resizing as you suggest. Or you should use and interlace-aware resizer and be clear how to crop rather than just specifying "totals".
Secondly (a minor issue though, so just to mention it): your cropping and resizing to square pixels assumes that the OP's SAR (aka PAR) is 16:15. In post#102 jagabo found that the SAR is most likely 12:11. So you may introduce the notorious 2% AR error, as I see it.

[Alwyn]

Firstly you should deinterlace the interlaced capture in order to avoid mingling up the fields when cropping and vertical resizing as you suggest. Or you should use and interlace-aware resizer and be clear how to crop rather than just specifying "totals".

Precisely why I said in post #142

Open the QTGMC AVS in VDub...

.

[Sharc]

Firstly you should deinterlace the interlaced capture in order to avoid mingling up the fields when cropping and vertical resizing as you suggest. Or you should use and interlace-aware resizer and be clear how to crop rather than just specifying "totals".

Precisely why I said in post #142

Open the QTGMC AVS in VDub...

.

Ah I see this was your precondition. Means also using an Avisynth script in case the deinterlacer is QTGMC().
Remains the 2% AR error. Just nitpicking

Edit: or resize to 786x576 rather than 768x576 to convert the cropped SAR 12:11 source to square pixels.

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks jagabo. The videos that I am encoding at present are DV (Digital8) recordings through WinDV. But soon I will be on my analogue captures YUY2 through virtualdub, these are the recordings I was hoping to cut/paste edit> filters>encode to MP4

[SkyBlues2021]

Thanks Alwyn, lollo & Sharc. I will have a look at that today.

[lollo]

Remains the 2% AR error. Just nitpicking

And the lossy/useless/not optimized resize operation. Just nitpicking

[Alwyn]

And the lossy/useless/not optimized resize operation.

Why is that any more lossy than the forced re-encoding of the video anyway due to cropping and borders? Throw in some noise reduction and levels changes and it wouldn't matter what I resized to. You would be apoplectic over my resizing of an SD video I'm doing now to 1440P for YT!

And what do you mean by "not optimised"? "Not" optimised for what?