how can i make a lossles encode ?

[Platos]

Some here told me sometimes i can do a lossles encode (for example if i have to do 2 things not at the same time because of to less memory. Then i can do the first step and then the second. This person told me, i can save the first lossless to use it in the second step. But i still dont know, how you can do that.

Has someone an idea ? Because in the Encoding-Setting i dont find sth. calles lossless or so.

And i have a question about filter-order: If i use for example this order: 1. upscaling with VSGAN then thin lines with "Thin GLSL A4k". Does it then upscale one frame, then filter this one frame and then it goes to the next frame, or does it upscale first everything and then filter everything ? Because the first thing would maybe use my CPU and GPU ressources more (which is good for me).

[Selur]

Assuming you are refering ot Hybrid, there are multiple encoders that support lossless encoding.
for example: x264, x265, vp9 through vpxenc, av1 through aoemenc, NVEncC for h265 and av1
there are also some encoders/formats that only support lossless encoding like: FFV1, FFHuff
=> if you can't find a way to encode to a lossless format with Hybrid it's your lack of looking,...

or does it upscale first everything and then filter everything

That would require that either the whole clip would have to be help in memory (uncompressed or at least lossless compressed) or would have to be written to a temporal file.
-> I doubt this can be done on any consumer hardware available. (even most common server hardware doesn't have enough RAM)
Also Vapoursynth and Avisynth both use parallelism/multithreading (to the point that srestore/cdeblend doesn't work as they are in Vapoursynth anymore), so multiple frames are usually processed in parallel, unless a filter library requests frames explicitly in a linear fashion.

[Platos]

Ahh, i need constant quantizier. it's only there.

[Platos]

Edit: So when i try to enable lossless with NVEnC with h265 or AV1 it's greyed out. I can't use it?

I can enable it, when i use x265 instead of Nvenc. It also not works on x264

[jagabo]

https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-and-decode-gpu-support-matrix-new

[Cornucopia]

-qp 0, or -cfr 0. It doesn't give you those? Doubt it.

Scott

[Selur]

x264 lossless requires profiles to be lossless or unrestricted. (Hybrid by default uses 'High'-profile which does not support lossless encoding.)
NVEncC lossless is only there if the card supports it. (nvencc --check-features)

[Platos]

Ok, i have RTX 4070Ti, which does support that all.

When i use Nvenc h265 in Hybrid with constant quantizer i can only go down to 1. I cant set 0. I also tried other encoder-presets. I also tried "main" profile instead of high. And the lossles-checkbox is greyed out. It's only available on software x265 and software av1.

[Selur]

You are using 'constant quanitzer', not 'constant quality', right?
For me it looks like this:



Cu Selur

[Platos]

WTF. After reinstalling Hybrid (yesterday) it's now there (it has to be that or me lol). Because yes, i used nvenc and h265 and constant quantizier, im very sure. Or stm a restart of the software is helpfull, i dont know.

It's now there for h265 and av1.

Sorry for trouble and thanks for your help.

[Sharc]

x264 lossless requires profiles to be lossless or unrestricted. (Hybrid by default uses 'High'-profile which does not support lossless encoding.)

I can select High4:4:4, 4:4:2 profile in x264 and select the output color space, but I can't set the CRF calue to zero in order to produce a lossless x264 output.
X264 lossless would usually give smaller output files compared to other lossless codecs which may justify to include lossless x264 in Hybrid (?)
As I see it the reason why some discourage from using lossless x264 is because of player compatibility issues, and because it is more CPU demanding than other lossless codecs, which has the risk of dropping frames with slower PCs for capturing.

[Selur]

I can select High4:4:4, 4:4:2 profile in x264 and select the output color space, but I can't set the CRF calue to zero in order to produce a lossless x264 output.

You need to use constant quantizer. Hybrid already does support lossless x264:


Cu Selur

[Sharc]

I can select High4:4:4, 4:4:2 profile in x264 and select the output color space, but I can't set the CRF calue to zero in order to produce a lossless x264 output.

You need to use constant quantizer. Hybrid already does support lossless x264:


Cu Selur

Oh I missed that. Thanks.

[meimeiriver]

A little late to the game, but is there a FFV1 input filter for VapourSynth too? (Or a way to output in FFV1 even)

[poisondeathray]

A little late to the game, but is there a FFV1 input filter for VapourSynth too? (Or a way to output in FFV1 even)

Are you referring to vapoursynth in general ? (or is this specific to hybrid) ?

You can load FFV1 into a vapoursynth script with ffm2, lsmash, or bestsource

You can pipe vspipe to ffmpeg to export FFV1 (or some ffmpeg binaries are compiled with vapoursynth demuxer, you can load .vpy directly)

[meimeiriver]

A little late to the game, but is there a FFV1 input filter for VapourSynth too? (Or a way to output in FFV1 even)

Are you referring to vapoursynth in general ? (or is this specific to hybrid) ?

You can load FFV1 into a vapoursynth script with ffm2, lsmash, or bestsource

You can pipe vspipe to ffmpeg to export FFV1 (or some ffmpeg binaries are compiled with vapoursynth demuxer, you can load .vpy directly)

Thank you kindly. Lossless is good. And I often need it for several passes (in several different programs). I know. x265 can do --lossless too, but somehow always still takes a good while.

[poisondeathray]

Thank you kindly. Lossless is good. And I often need it for several passes (in several different programs). I know. x265 can do --lossless too, but somehow always still takes a good while.

FFV1 isn't exactly "fast" for encoding (or decoding) either.

You can change the settings to make them encode faster, such as faster presets, intra encoding. The filesize will be larger, but if they are just for temp files it shouldn't matter if you have enough storage space

Depending on the pixel type that you are using, and the hardware that you have - GPU lossless encoding is another option for fast encoding/decoding - sometimes many times faster

But if you have other bottlenecks in the workflow - such as slow filters - it won't matter how fast the encoding portion is.

[meimeiriver]

You can change the settings to make them encode faster, such as faster presets, intra encoding. The filesize will be larger, but if they are just for temp files it shouldn't matter if you have enough storage space.

If I set x265 to preset 'ultrafast', why would filesize be smaller? I mean, normally it obviously would, but I had assumed setting '--lossless' would always output an uncompressed stream, regardless of preset.

[poisondeathray]

If I set x265 to preset 'ultrafast', why would filesize be smaller?

Should be larger, because the compression is worse. But the quality is the same when using lossless compression ; lossless = lossless - it's just smaller or larger filesizes and slower or faster encoding

The presets , in general , trade off encoding speed for compression ratio .

I mean, normally it obviously would, but I had assumed setting '--lossless' would always output an uncompressed stream, regardless of preset.

The encoded stream uses lossless compression, therefore smaller than uncompressed. The decoded stream is uncompressed

[meimeiriver]

Should be larger, because the compression is worse. But the quality is the same when using lossless compression ; lossless = lossless - it's just smaller or larger filesizes and slower or faster encoding

Yes, meant 'larger', sorry. But thanks for laying it out.