Use Vapoursynt where is the command-line window ?

[Platos]

I quote sth from another thread that you know, what the topic is. I do an own thread because it's not the topic of the other.

How can i "downscale" a source to its "real" resolution? So i mean the resolution of the original production, because the bluray-source is 1080p).

You can use descale (https://github.com/Irrational-Encoding-Wizardry/descale) if you know the native resolution. (not integrated into Hybrid)

I installed phyton and vapoursynth, but i dont understand, where the command-line windows is. When i search for Vapoursynth i see nothing. I actually found only 1 Turtorial on Youtube about Vapoursynth (strange) and it does not show, where i find that.

And is this command for descale difficult? On the github-website there is no real example or i dont understand it. Is there somewhere a full example for this plugin to descale ? So from the first line till the last what you have to type in to do that?

So i try to do this: https://github.com/Infiziert90/getnative

and then the descale. The first step seems to be explained ok, but i dont understand the instructions for the other plugin i think. So and yeah, how i said, i dont undertsand, where i have to type in the commands Because after i installed Vapoursynth it did not open any command-line window to type sth nor do i find sth, when i search in windows.

[poisondeathray]

Most people use vsedit (vapoursynth editor) to preview and edit vapoursynth scripts
The mod version is required for newer vapoursynth versions
https://github.com/YomikoR/VapourSynth-Editor/releases

For getnative, you open a regular command prompt (if you don't know how to do this, use google) and enter (or copy/paste) the command as in the examples (or modify with other options). Vapoursynth and the source filter plugins will automatically be initialized by the python script in the getnative package . It will analyze and plot the results

[RANT]
vapoursynth is difficult for new people, unless you have experience with python. It's difficult to even get started with many scripts because of python dependencies and conflicting versions. Avisynth is 10x easier to get running IMO - and that's saying a lot - because avisynth is a PITA because of ".dll hell" and it's own versions and dependencies. People find avisynth difficult to use at first. It's just that vapoursynth has all those problems similar to avisynth PLUS python package dependencies on top [/RANT]

[Platos]

Ahh, the commands you type in in cmd ? So but why do i need then the editor? I could also use Notepad++ instead for example? It's only to make scripts, not to execute them?

I have a question about get native. After installing everything i opened cmd as admin and typed this (copied from github):

$ getnative -k bicubic -b 0.33 -c 0.33 -dir "path"

while path is the path from the video (i did right click and copy as path). I checked the path its correct, i did not use double time the ".

I got this error:

getnative.exe: error: the following arguments are required: input_file

Ok, then i tried the code abobe:

$ getnative [--args] inputFile

and for inputfile i used the path again (without "").
But i got this error:

getnative.exe: error: unrecognized arguments: path

(path was my path)

Would someone be so nice and make me an example. i have no idea, what i do wrong.

[poisondeathray]

The editor is for learning vapoursynth and previewing scripts in general. You don' t need it for getnative

eg. what if you wanted to view the output of certain getnative settings estimates, to test the accuracy, but applied to your input ? Maybe bicubic b=0.5, not 0.333 ? c=0.75, not 0.333? Or applied to other frames in that video or other videos in the series ? What if you wanted to view some combination of model output ? or merged outputs ? But without having to encode or save an image or video? getnative is not necessarily 100% right - it's an "estimate" - you need to verify the results

Another useful feature is "output nodes" for the previewer . It's like imgsli but better. You map output nodes to the number keys and can switch between states. eg. model1 hit the 1 key. model2 hit the 2 key. Filterchaing A+B+C hit the 3 key. They are superimposed/aligned so it's easy to see differences. It's like "tabs" in avspmod


If you open a command prompt at the level of the directory of the input, then paths are not needed, otherwise you need to specify a path

python -m getnative -k bilinear --min-height 500 --max-height 800 input.png

If the command prompt was at a different directory level as "input.png" , and in this example "input.png" was at "D:\test\folder", you need to specify the path

python -m getnative -k bilinear --min-height 500 --max-height 800 "D:\test\folder\input.png "

getnative is more accurate if you choose a brighter frame, clear (not blurred or depth of field), less noise and grain

[Platos]

Sorry for late Answer. But coool, it worked

What does min heigth mean? is that needed because otherweise the software would calculate with no end because it's trying to check "all" resolutions you could do? And what does -k bilinear do?

I think it's best to have in the folder only this single file. I did cd path and then had only this single picture. It worked with your code.

Now, if you give me this example-code its quite easy (haha)

I got best guess 720p, 782p, 747p, 681p. So therefore the file is 720p, it's really upscaled. So i mean like it's not only one of these "bluray-upscales" which are actually nothing.

But how do i get this graph where i can see the spikes ? Edit: it's in the same folder as the picture was.

That's cool.

But the bad thing is: Result is a graph with no real spikes. so i have to test other pictures.
Edit2: with aother picture i get a more or less good visibale spike on 720p. So it seems the 720p ar 720p.

Edit 3: So that's good and bad at same time. Now i dont have to use rescale, but on the other hand the uspcaling is slower.

[poisondeathray]

What does min heigth mean? is that needed because otherweise the software would calculate with no end because it's trying to check "all" resolutions you could do?

Yes - to speed things up. You probably don't want to be testing 100 height, for example. Or 900 height. They make no sense in this scenario

All the parameters are listed here
https://github.com/Infiziert90/getnative

And what does -k bilinear do?

The resampling (resizing) kernel used for testing. There are dozens or resampling algorithms, each with dozens of different settings. Probably 1000's of combinations

The common "soft" anime BD upscales are usually bilinear and bicubic . Again, search anime fan forums, and the answer is probably already posted somewhere. Someone probably already tested the 1000's of combinations and tested/verified what works "best" for specific BD releases

If it's a soft upscale to BD case; almost always you will get better results using descale as a 1st step, not matter what model(s) or filter(s) you use afterwards. Unlike "personal taste" - where someone might like or dislike the output of some model(s) or some filter(s) - that is almost always the best 1st step, and everyone will agree.

[Platos]

Ah ok, yeah then i will probably need in someday i guess.

Would you help me with an example-code ? so i mean to descale. If i would have a samlpe-code it would help me so much.

And thank you for your help. It helped me alot. Im now able to do that getnative thing.

[poisondeathray]

Would you help me with an example-code ? so i mean to descale. If i would have a samlpe-code it would help me so much.

That part you can most likely do in some GUI

Once you have your "answer" you enter the resampler (resizer), and the settings

If it was a vapoursynth script , it would look something like this for the descaling step. In this example, debicubic, b=0.5, c=0.5.. They might be different settings for your video

You could add different filters to the script if you wanted

import vapoursynth as vs
core = vs.core

clip = core.lsmas.LWLibavSource(r'PATH\input.ext')
clip = core.descale.Debicubic(clip, width=1280, height=720, b=0.5, c=0.5)
#other filters
clip.set_output()

[Platos]

Ok, thank you very much. Because i dont find a gui, i will try the commandline version.

What do i have to write into the () on

clip.set_output()

?

But i get alot of errors. It says import is wrongly spelled or could not be found. Same for core. I have to use cmd, right ?

Do i have to install sth first?

[poisondeathray]

Ok, thank you very much. Because i dont find a gui, i will try the commandline version.

What do i have to write into the () on

clip.set_output()

?

But i get alot of errors. It says import is wrongly spelled or could not be found. Same for core. I have to use cmd, right ?

Do i have to install sth first?

No, it's just clip.set_output() for your case - it's just 1 video output , no other things like alpha

You need python, vapoursynth installed, and lsmash (or some other source filter) , or a "portable" version

There is also a portable "fatpack" put together that bundles a bunch of things (you probably don't need most of them)
https://github.com/theChaosCoder/vapoursynth-portable-FATPACK

You can use vdub2 or vsedit to preview and edit scripts . They are semi GUI's of a sort and will give you better error messages. You can encode from vdub2 or vsedit too (if you have it setup)

To encode, you can use also vspipe and something like ffmpeg ,or x264, x265, or NVEncC - basically anything that accepts pipe in. This is pure CLI

I think hybrid should be able to open a script (not sure)

[Platos]

I'm trying out descale now and when i write in cmd:

import vapoursynth as vs
core = vs.core
clip = core.lsmas.LWLibavSource(r'C:\Users\Gaming-Tower\Videos\$$$ Naruto Shippuden tests\Naruto Shippuden 1_t03_1min.mkv')
clip = core.descale.Debicubic(clip, width=1280, height=720, b=0.5, c=0.5)
clip.set_output()

then it says me, that '=' is invalid (argument invalid). It also says 'import' could now be found. What am i doing wrong ?

Btw, what does b=0.5 and c=0.5 mean again?

And how do i know if i have to use debicubic ?

And about getnative: I know the series was produced in 480p 4:3 but getnative gives me 1080p and such things. Do i have to test with sth other than bilinear ? how can i test "all" of them ? Its a dircet-disc copy (the source).

Edit: what is actually the difference between descale and rescale ? Is it so bad to just rescale to desired resolution (so from 1080p to 4080 for example) ?

[poisondeathray]

I'm trying out descale now and when i write in cmd:

import vapoursynth as vs
core = vs.core
clip = core.lsmas.LWLibavSource(r'C:\Users\Gaming-Tower\Videos\$$$ Naruto Shippuden tests\Naruto Shippuden 1_t03_1min.mkv')
clip = core.descale.Debicubic(clip, width=1280, height=720, b=0.5, c=0.5)
clip.set_output()

then it says me, that '=' is invalid (argument invalid). It also says 'import' could now be found. What am i doing wrong ?

It's python, you don't run it in a regular windows command line prompt.

As motioned above, most people use vsedit - fastest/easiest way to preview. There are several other similar ones like preview. You can also use notepad, copy/paste, rename extension from .txt to .vpy , open in vdub2

For encoding , most people use vspipe commandline to something like ffmpeg, x264/x265 . You can setup vsedit with encoding presets

Btw, what does b=0.5 and c=0.5 mean again?

Read about b,c settings for bicubic them here
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Resize#BicubicResize

And how do i know if i have to use debicubic ?

You don't. It's a 1st guess. Most soft BD's are upscaled using bilinear or bicubic with various settings. Genative tries to make an educated guess. You still have to compare and verify the results

And about getnative: I know the series was produced in 480p 4:3 but getnative gives me 1080p and such things. Do i have to test with sth other than bilinear ? how can i test "all" of them ? Its a dircet-disc copy (the source).

If you'd like to test all likely kernels, you can use --mode "all".

Read these for more information and tips
https://guideencodemoe-mkdocs.readthedocs.io/encoding/descaling/
https://silentaperture.gitlab.io/mdbook-guide/filtering/descaling.html

Edit: what is actually the difference between descale and rescale ? Is it so bad to just rescale to desired resolution (so from 1080p to 4080 for example) ?

"descaling" is reversing the original poor job upscaling. "rescaling" is upscaling using something better once you've descaled

[Platos]

Ah thank you very much. I will try to go in and work on it. But first i have to solve my color-problem

About rescale: I mean, when i use rescale and change resolution from 1080p (source) to 720p, the it is what? Just a downscale? So it does not restore like on descale, it does just downscale?

Because when i use LD-Anime Comapact i get much better results, when i first rescale to 720p, then upscale to 1080p. Because when i "upscale" with LD-Anime Compact from 1080p to 1080p (so no upscale), it looks better, but not really much. When i use 1440p instead, it does look exactly same (i noticed this now several times with LD-Anime Compact. It will not give you much improvement, if your source is 1080p, and you increase resolution. I dont know why).

But thank you, will look into it, when i'm done with the color-horrorstory i have atm