Movie Studio Platinum 16: HD preview and render size issue?

[japniz]

Hope someone can help with this rather specific problem as the Vegas/Magix forum rejects my registration to post there.

I'm rurnning MSPlatinum 16, build 175 and use it for producing short videos from captured home video cam footage viewed on my TV.

Have previously done a lot of DV captures (720x576x32 Pal) for this, but have just started editing Sony Handycam HD widescreen footage, which shows as 1440x1080x32 (Pal) in the preview window. However, the 'display' of the preview window reads as only 747x420x32, which shows the footage in a small rectangle in the middle of the window, despite the drop down above the window being set to 'best' and 'full'.

(For comparison, the DV capture would fill the preview window, albeit in normal screen format (black bars as the sides) as it's not widescreen.)

I thought the restricted preview was only that, for whatever reason, but upon rendering the vid to .mp4 using the 'internet HD 1080p 25fps' template setting, I found the small screen resolution was the same when played.

How can I correct this, I imagine, resolution setting problem, both for the preview window during editing and, of course, so that the final render is the expected size (ie: filling the TV widescreen)?

For info, in setting up the project, I chose 'match source video' and on the settings cog, I've changed both 'full resolution rendering quality' and for audio 'resample and stretch quality' to 'best'.

Many thanks for any constructive advice. (I've searched this forum and the Vegas/Magix forum but couldn't find anything similar.)

[Bwaak]

Preview is just a preview. Verify your project properties (File -> Properties) and your render settings (when you choose a render format, click Customize Template...).

You may be helped better if you share:

* project properties settings
* render template settings
* original and rendered files' metadata

[japniz]

Many thanks, Bwaak.

Project properties:
HDV 1080-50i (1440x1080, 25.000 fps)
1.3333 (HDV 1080)
25.000 (PAL)

Render settings for the template I used:
Use this setting to create an MP4 (AVC/AAC) file for progressive internet downloads.
Audio: 192 Kbps, 48,000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, AAC
Video: 25 fps, 1920x1080 Progressive, YUV, 12 Mbps
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.000


For 'metadata' for the original and the rendered files, do you mean the properties? If so,

original:

[Attachment 70389 - Click to enlarge]
rendered:

[Attachment 70390 - Click to enlarge]

[Bwaak]

Outputting either as 1440x1080 PAR 1.33 or 1920x1080 PAR 1 is correct.

Your rendered file properties show typical HDV properties, are you sure it is the rendered file, not the original? It is 25 Mbit/s instead of 12 Mbit/s set in the render template.

From what you wrote I took that your video has been rendered with 747x420 size, but maybe I got it wrong? Could you double-check and clarify?

[japniz]

Thanks again, Bwaak.

Yes, the rendered file spec are corect from the rendered file.

The problem is that the preview window shows the footage at 747x420 - effectively, a small rectangle in the middle of the window (pink text next to 'display'):

[Attachment 70391 - Click to enlarge]
- normally the footage being edited would fill this window, and then this is again replicated in the final mp4 after the render.

[Bwaak]

Ok, so it is about the preview, not about the final video.

First, I would make sure that the rendered video has the correct size and look by using a standalone video player, like VLC or Splash or even Windows Media Player.

Second, given Best(Full) and the project properties, I am not sure why the preview area is the one you have. There are tons of settings for the preview window, some of them interrelated, try playing with them. But at this point I don't have a definitive answer, sorry.

I usually turn off "Scale video to fit preview window" and instead change the preview video size by switching between Full, Half and Quarter, and resize the pane accordingly. I also feel that this improves the preview speed, as it is easier to downscale to 0.5 or 0.25 size. Anyway, this should not be a culprit, as I tried "scale video to fit preview window" and it works fine. But I am using Pro Vegas.

[_Al_]

When you resize preview window, it does resize those 747x420 to something else, but still image is zoomed in? That would indicate some crop window unintentional zoom in setting, is everything reset, or some effect is in output fx, which is effects applied on all timeline for output (not sure how it works in platinum)?

You might have for example picture in picture selected in output fx, just looking at the preview. As a default that would set exactly like that, in the middle of image.
Click that little fx icon above preview, that is output fx

[japniz]

Many thanks, Bwaak and _AI_

Bwaak:
The spec from VLC and a grab showing the output/rendered video appearing as a rectangle in the middle of the screen are below, despite the render settings used (as detailed above):

[Attachment 70398 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 70399 - Click to enlarge]

I unchecked the ‘scale video to fit preview window’ option as you suggest and on ‘best’ settings, the preview window is now massive. Switching it to ‘auto’ returns it to the same scale as previously. However, when re-rendering to see if it made any difference, again the output showed the rectangle in the middle of the screen as in the preview window.

_AI_:
Yes, when dragging to resize the preview window, those pink numbers do change, though the rectangle of footage is still in the same relative position. I can find no zoom setting for the preview window and checking the fx tab shows none are plugged in.

From my low-level, amateur experience, I don’t see why there appears to be a link between the preview window view/size of the footage (which is just for reference while editing) and the final output/rendered .mp4, which looks just as the preview window does.

[TreeTops]

Are you on the PIP track by chance?

[Bwaak]

Ok, it seems that the black frame is encoded in the video. Verify your video event's pan/crop settings and make sure that you don't mask a portion of a frame. If you see this box checked, uncheck it.

[_Al_]

Are you on the PIP track by chance?

yes, not sure what platinum version has available, in full version FX can be applied three different ways:
-on single event (click FX icon on event, select FX)
-on a track (click three dots on the left in track, select Track FX and then particular FX
-output FX, which is applied on a timeline(click FX icon on the top of preview, select FX)
and there is not a dot over that output fX as it seems looking at posted images, so that effect is not in output FX,
if it is on the track, if he clicks on those double arrows, on the left on the track, it expands and would show name of the FX, picture in picture

I don’t see why there appears to be a link between the preview window view/size of the footage (which is just for reference while editing)

Whatever final output is, it should be seen in preview window, there should be no surprises later.

[japniz]

Many thanks TreeTops, _AI_ and Bwaak, you've hit the nail on the head - expanding the timeline carrying the video shows it is picture-in-picture!

In my naivety, I had assumed it was just another 'video' track when dragging captures from Explorer onto it, but clearly there is a preset attached for PIP - when I click on the burger/three line menu I see:

[Attachment 70402 - Click to enlarge]

If that's the reason for the wrong-sizing in the preview window and at full output, is there any way of converting the PIP track to a normal video track as I have about five projects with this same stupid mistake?

When I untick the box (in the grab), the resolution changes but I'm left with a rectangle (the former size of the footage) in the centre of the preview screen which I can't delete.

[_Al_]

I think that rectangle would disappear later, but you can always remove that FX completely, click on that right top fx icon , it should be in red, it will remove that effect.

[japniz]

That's great, _AI_, if that's all I need to do to make the track a 'normal' video timeline.

Have just tried a re-render after deleting the PIP fx plugin and on VLC it plays back at full screen, which is very good to see. Will check later if it does the same on my TV from a USB stick.

On a final note, I've used the
'internet HD 1080p 25fps'
template preset to produce the archive mp4 for viewing on my TV.

Is there any better quality setting I should be using to ensure the best possible result for this kind of playback?

[Bwaak]

"internet HD 1080p 25fps" preset is 25p and it is low bitrate. Your HDV video is 25i (or 50i, same thing, different notation) unless you shot it in prog-scan. So, you are losing half of the information.

Keep the original files for your archive.

For YouTube render into 50p, this will work for watching on a TV as well. You can work off 25i timeline if you want, or you can switch the project to 50 fps, progressive, deinterlace mode: interpolate.

[japniz]

Many thanks again, Bwaak.

Here is the project set up screen using the 50i/25fps template:

[Attachment 70415 - Click to enlarge]

But when I change the field order to 'none- progressive', the template changes to a 'custom' version with better resolution - can I confirm that's correct?

[Attachment 70421 - Click to enlarge]

And on the project output options, I have swapped to:

[Attachment 70416 - Click to enlarge]

Do I need to make changes to both the project settings and the output choice? Or is one of the two the best option rather than needing both?

(And thanks for the word on the 25i and 50i notation being the same.)

[Bwaak]

Templates in Vegas (or Movie Studio) are what they are called, templates. They are not set in stone, you can change them or create your own. It is up to you whether you want 1440x1920 PAR 1.33 or 1920x1920 PAR 1 or whatever else.

Project frame rate does not affect the final frame rate, as Vegas / Movie Studio will render from source files according to rendering settings, so you can use 25 fps project if you want, but I would switch to 50 fps. If you set your preview window to Best, you will be able to skip frame by frame in 50 fps mode, each field being converted into a frame not only during the render phase, but during the preview as well. Also, sometimes when project rate does not match render rate, the cut points may shift.

You can render at 25p, it will look more cinematic, and you can do half-speed slo-mo without introducing interpolated frames

If you have a fancy graphics card, you can try GPU deinterlacing, sometimes it works better than simple "interpolate", but on my machine it hangs about half a minute after rendering starts.

Do you really use HEVC at 20-40 Mbit/s ? Why? HEVC is about 4 times more efficient than H.262 used in HDV, so you can easily drop the bitrate to, say, 6-7 Mbit/s. You'll have your original files for archiving anyway.

[japniz]

Many thanks again, Bwaak - and apologies for not replying sooner.

Am looking for the best quality for the final output when viewed on a HD TV, so will go for 50fps/50i, both for project properties and output template.

I have no slow-mo or other effects other than some pan and scan on a few photos included on the timeline, and am working with a budget gaming graphics card (Nvidia 1050ti 4gb), so nothing super-powerful

I chose Magix HEVC after reading it offered higher quality than Magix AVC.

ADVC is supposed to be included in Studio as well but, for some reason, I can't access the download that's supposed to install it, but again I understand the HEVC is better quality.