Cheap HDMI Capture Device, is it worth it?

[therock003]

I found a USB HDMI capture stick that costs 10 euros or less.

https://maxsat.gr/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/20220928134848_6fadde99.jpg

Seen some videos of how I works and it supports windows and Android, so you can use them as a monitor. I can find some use for that.

My question is, will it have considerable lag, or do I need to get something more expensive? I don't want to record, rather my main use will be having my laptop screen as monitor so I can output from HDMI devices. And I don't want to have lag for times I want to be gaming in that regard

Another question non related to the first, is can I find a reliable rca to HDMI converter and then connect it to the HDMI Capture Device so that I can record content from old Sources (VHS player for example, or old game consoles).

[jagabo]

A year or two I got one for US$6, just to check it out. The lag is about 1 second. About the only game you'll be playing on it is chess. And even with that you'll probably drop the piece on the wrong square half the time. At HD resolutions it puts out MJPEG video (basically it emulates a webcam). At SD resolutions you have an option for uncompressed, YUV 4:2:2 if I remember correctly.

You won't be playing action games with any such device, no matter how much you spend.

[rgr]

I found a USB HDMI capture stick that costs 10 euros or less.

https://maxsat.gr/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/20220928134848_6fadde99.jpg

Seen some videos of how I works and it supports windows and Android, so you can use them as a monitor. I can find some use for that.

My question is, will it have considerable lag, or do I need to get something more expensive? I don't want to record, rather my main use will be having my laptop screen as monitor so I can output from HDMI devices. And I don't want to have lag for times I want to be gaming in that regard

I have something like this. It is only suitable for use as a preview, because it is certainly not for recording. I haven't tried how it works for HD. It gives mono sound, I have not been able to get it to pass stereo sound.

[rgr]

At SD resolutions you have an option for uncompressed, YUV 4:2:2 if I remember correctly.

At 30fps... (or something like that)

[johnnyquid]

The MS2130 chip based ones are better. In addition to better video capturing at least the one I tried captured audio in stereo. With that being said, it is still a cheap device and the quality is in line with price. The cheapest MS2130 chip based ones can be found online shipped from USA for about $30. The one I got just to play around with was https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BQ7F2KMC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

The link below is for a discussion about them.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/407889-MS2130-chipset-the-new-low-budget-Hdmi-capt...re-card-killer

[Alwyn]

In addition to better video capturing at least the one I tried captured audio in stereo.

An Amazon review of the stick you linked to comments on the audio capture:

There are dozens of these video capture devices being sold, and they are all based on the exact same chip internally. Note that you'll only get 720 or 1080 video (4k is downscaled), and you need a relatively new computer to keep up with the framerate. The big issue for me is that the audio stream, while technically stereo, is presented as an interleaved mono audio stream at double bit rate. This isn't supported by any major OS or video software (the one exception being that there is a kernel patch for linux). Every capture and video package I have tried sees this as a mono audio stream. Given the price, it's pretty great. But for capturing and archiving movies where you care about the audio, it's not what you want.

Your thoughts?

The reason I'm curious is I'm looking for one of these as an alternative for capturing HDMI from my video camera.

[rgr]

Your thoughts?

Poor deinterlacing (MJPEG is already deinterlaced).
Drops frames (4h4m video will be around 4h).

[Alwyn]

Thanks RGR, I was especially interested in @johnnyquid's thoughts on that audio issue.

[Cornucopia]

In traditional stereo digital streams the 2 channels are interleaved (both channels each sample or sample group), so the practice is not uncommon. What is uncommon is the flagging/structure, which sounds here to be done poorly.

Scott

[johnnyquid]

Find attached an example lossless capture clip (limited to 10 seconds due to size limits) and the original source material. The original clip was played with VLC on my laptop and was captured on my desktop using OBS. I didn't notice any lag when capturing. The below capture was done using a cheap MS2130 based device.

[Hunk91]

There is a solution for the audio interleaving issue on those hdmi capture cards with MS2109 chipset : https://github.com/ToadKing/mono-to-stereo

I never used it but always doubled the audio track.

[Eric-jan]

There is a solution for the audio interleaving issue on those hdmi capture cards with MS2109 chipset : https://github.com/ToadKing/mono-to-stereo

I never used it but always doubled the audio track.

when capturing the sound at the same time with a audio usb dongle could that give lipp sync problems ?

[Hunk91]

There is a solution for the audio interleaving issue on those hdmi capture cards with MS2109 chipset : https://github.com/ToadKing/mono-to-stereo

I never used it but always doubled the audio track.

when capturing the sound at the same time with a audio usb dongle could that give lipp sync problems ?

Sorry I don't know, I haven't used it yet. I just doubled the audio track to get à "stereo" audio track

[Eric-jan]

There is a solution for the audio interleaving issue on those hdmi capture cards with MS2109 chipset : https://github.com/ToadKing/mono-to-stereo

I never used it but always doubled the audio track.

when capturing the sound at the same time with a audio usb dongle could that give lipp sync problems ?

Sorry I don't know, I haven't used it yet. I just doubled the audio track to get à "stereo" audio track

i looked also at the Github link, can't find the .exe file, does the code need to be compiled with another app ?
I have a HDMI dongle that uses USB3, or at least the USB-A plastic is blue…. but the HDMI sound is indeed mono, did do a capture, with extra usb sound dongle but not long enough to notice any sound sync issue i guess.. settings for video capture totally depends on capture software….
But an HDMI output from a DVB-T2 (using a HDMI passthrough) gave correct sound.
@OP: converting from HDMI will always give lag that's why they use SDI equipment, but even lenghts of cables can then make minute differences, but can be electronical compensated, if needed.
But i guess with HDMI: if everything has the same lag compensation..

[Hunk91]

Here are the compiled versions :
64 bits : https://github.com/ToadKing/mono-to-stereo/releases/download/0.5/mono-to-stereo-0.5-64bit.zip

32 bits version : https://github.com/ToadKing/mono-to-stereo/releases/download/0.5/mono-to-stereo-0.5-32bit.zip

Best regards

[Eric-jan]

Here are the compiled versions :
64 bits : https://github.com/ToadKing/mono-to-stereo/releases/download/0.5/mono-to-stereo-0.5-64bit.zip

32 bits version : https://github.com/ToadKing/mono-to-stereo/releases/download/0.5/mono-to-stereo-0.5-32bit.zip

Best regards

Thankyou !

[Hunk91]

You are welcome ! Please let us know if it's improving the audio (splittinf the 2 audio channels correctly)
Regarding your capture card, there are a lot which have a blue usb 3 connectors but it is a usb 2 chipset behind. With MS2109 it is always usb 2.0. For MS2130 it is usb 3 as it's capable of 1080p60Hz YUV (uncompressed)

Best regards

[johnnyquid]

The mono-to-stereo program mentioned above is to use while capturing with MS2109 based devices to fix the issue of the devices reporting mono sound at 96 KHz when the audio data is actually stereo at 48 KHz with the first (left) sample missing. The program will not help if you have already captured.

If you have already captured then you can fix the audio by importing the audio into Audacity as raw data. The below assumes that the audio was captured lossless (so the original audio samples can be obtained).

The audio data will first have to extracted (demuxed) from the video capture file as a WAV file. The WAV file is then imported into Audacity as raw data. The settings for the raw data import should be as follows:

Encoding: Signed 16-bit PCM
Byte Order: Little-endian
Channels: 2 Channels (Stereo)
Start offset: 46 bytes
Amount to import: 100%
Sample rate: 48000 Hz

The offset of 46 is bytes is the 44 bytes of the WAV header plus 2 bytes for the first sample which is the first unmatched right sample. If only 44 bytes is used then the left and right channels will be swapped from what they should be.

The MS2130 chip based devices do not have the incorrectly reported audio data problem so the above does not apply to them. The MS2130 chip based devices report and correctly provide stereo audio.

[Eric-jan]

Thanks for the answers ! i guess this one has the wrong chipset, on my MacBookpro i get irratic values, for frame rate of the video i will try this dongle on my M$ laptop, while capturing, the files from the Mac are only MP4 or MOV so no post correction on those i guess.
An easier solution would be to know which of the dongles use the "good" chipset, they all are name less, i guess the source where to buy from, is the difference, i can't find the specs yet on my Mac when the dongle is plugged in

The MS2130 chip based devices do not have the incorrectly reported audio data problem so the above does not apply to them. The MS2130 chip based devices report and correctly provide stereo audio.

I see Alie has stock….

[Attachment 70392 - Click to enlarge]

[lordsmurf]

That stick is a huge piece of crap. I bought one just for fun, it was less than $10.

If you enjoy:
- bad quality
- pissing away money
- supporting Chinese businesses that steal our IP, then half-ass clone it cheaply

Then this is the best card for you!

[johnnyquid]

Lordsmurf is correct. Don't expect much from such a low cost device. I haven't used mine for anything important or very long. I did post a short sample above.

You may still be able to post-process the files have already captured. It depends on how the audio was stored in your MOV and MP4 files. The audio can extracted from the video+audio (MOV/MP4) files. Post a mediainfo report of the files if you want some advice on whether the audio is easily fixable.

[rgr]

That stick is a huge piece of crap. I bought one just for fun, it was less than $10.

If you enjoy:
- bad quality
- pissing away money
- supporting Chinese businesses that steal our IP, then half-ass clone it cheaply

Then this is the best card for you!

Left side = this grabber (MJPG capture 720x576)
Right side = MPEG2 (from DVD Recorder, QTGMC, taken from compressed MP4)

Too much green on the left is the fault of the Panasonic SJ222, but the difference in quality in favor of MPEG2 is visible.

[Hunk91]

Thank you rgr for the comparaison.
Normaly this kind of cheap hdmi capture card propose to capture uncompressed at 720x576. Can you please try to make the same comparaison between uncompressed and Mpeg2 (without Qtgmc post processing)?

Best regards

[rgr]

Thank you rgr for the comparaison.
Normaly this kind of cheap hdmi capture card propose to capture uncompressed at 720x576. Can you please try to make the same comparaison between uncompressed and Mpeg2 (without Qtgmc post processing)?

Best regards

This device only allows uncompressed at max 25fps, so it doesn't make sense. I can't set more in VDub.

[Hunk91]

PAL DVD is 720x576 25 fps MPEG2, and this hdmi stick allows captures at 720x576 25 fps uncompressed. So it makes senses to compare the original from each device.

In the first case you compare MJPEG to MPEG2 post processed with QTGMC and converted to MP4.

Of course your dvd recorder will make a better capture than this cheap hdmi capture. But I was curious to compare what you can have by default

[rgr]

PAL DVD is 720x576 25 fps MPEG2, and this hdmi stick allows captures at 720x576 25 fps uncompressed. So it makes senses to compare the original from each device.

In the first case you compare MJPEG to MPEG2 post processed with QTGMC and converted to MP4.

Of course your dvd recorder will make a better capture than this cheap hdmi capture. But I was curious to compare what you can have by default

Unfortunately, I just got a movie in progressive.
Left = Video: YUY2 720x576 25fps 165935kbps [V: rawvideo, yuyv422, 720x576, 165935 kb/s]
Right = MPEG2 from DVD Recorder

No filters, compressed with crf=17.

[rgr]

PAL DVD is 720x576 25 fps MPEG2, and this hdmi stick allows captures at 720x576 25 fps uncompressed. So it makes senses to compare the original from each device.

In the first case you compare MJPEG to MPEG2 post processed with QTGMC and converted to MP4.

Of course your dvd recorder will make a better capture than this cheap hdmi capture. But I was curious to compare what you can have by default

Unfortunately, I just got a movie in progressive.
Left = Video: YUY2 720x576 25fps 165935kbps [V: rawvideo, yuyv422, 720x576, 165935 kb/s]
Right = MPEG2 from DVD Recorder

No filters, compressed with crf=17.

Left = Video: YUY2 720x576 25fps 165935kbps [V: rawvideo, yuyv422, 720x576, 165935 kb/s] + NEAT VIDEO (generic profile)
Right = MPEG2 from DVD Recorder

CRF=17

PS. Does the DVR Panasonic EH-585 give interlaced video on the HDMI output?

[oln]

It has menu settings to switch between interlaced/progressive and resolution so it will if you set it to it.

[johnnyquid]

I assume from the above that you are testing a MS2109 chip device. Those are the really cheap ones.

[bloggo3]

I am interested in buying a ClonerAlliance UHD Pro, 4K Video Recorder, HDMI Capture DVR.This is a stand alone recorder that saves to a Flash drive or external drive. You can also connect it to a PC and record from it with OBS.
Reading a reviewers comments it seems that the colours are overcompressed and there is too much Black in the capture when you use it as a stand alone. He mentioned that this is easily fixed in Post Production. What would be involved in doing this?
I bought a cheap capture device that does 1080p at 60 fps with the idea of setting up a profile in OBS to correct the colours as I record. If I can get that to work, then I would repeat it with the Cloner Alliance. Can anyone tell me if such a thing is possible and how I should go about it.I could also record in VLC if that would be better. Thanks for any help you can give me.

I did a recoding with OBS and below is the Media Info:
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4
File size : 5.65 GiB
Duration : 2 h 36 min
Overall bit rate : 5 166 kb/s
Frame rate : 60.000 FPS
Writing application : Lavf59.27.100
Writing library : Lavf59.27.100
ErrorDetectionType : Per level 1

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.2
Format settings : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2 h 36 min
Nominal bit rate : 5 000 kb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 60.000 FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.040
Writing library : x264 core 164 r3101 b093bbe
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=9 / lookahead_threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=cbr / mbtree=1 / bitrate=5000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=5000 / vbv_bufsize=5000 / nal_hrd=none / filler=1 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default : No
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC LC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID : A_AAC-2
Duration : 2 h 36 min
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel layout : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Title : simple_aac
Default : No
Forced : No