VHS Horizontal Stabilisation - part 2 - Electric Boogaloo

[JadHC]

Hello,

it seems I'm having a similar issue as Keller501, though not so severe, so I'm creating a new thread (if better to continue in his thread, let me know and I move my question there). Also happy to see fellow member recording true SECAM-L tapes as well

I am recording SECAM tapes. Luckily, i have pretty stable video image (the video does not severely shift left/right). However, it seems that top field and bottom field are misaligned. Therefore, when i deinterlace video, first frame from top field slightly 'waves' to the left, second frame from bottom field slightly 'waves to the right and so on. When the video is played, it creates this slight wiggling to the left and right (not that severe, 1 or 2 pixels misalignment).
To be honest, i have test-recorded these tapes 3 times:
1. on friend's Jutistu SECAM VCR with TBC - the color recordings had this slight wiggling
2. on Panasonic PAL PANASONIC NV-FS200 with TBC - BW recordings had this slight wiggling too
3. on SECAM JVC HR-S9700MS with TBC - color recordings had this slight wiggling

I'm really worried about line TBC at this point, especially for SECAM tapes. Is there a way to fix this and if yes, what would it be? Is there a software that can fix this? I tried stab function in avisynth+ and saw no difference at all. lollo mentioned passthrough DVR in another thread so if someone has good tips on proper passthrough DVRs, please, let me know. Or should i accept wiggling at this point, please?

I'm planning to digitize over 100 tapes (100 tapes * 3 hours = 300 hours of recording) + QTGMC takes 6x the video lenght (300 x 6 = 1800 hours of post-processing). Thus, i would like to fix this at the beginning.

Inputs:
- interlaced video
- JVC HR-S9700MS
- Hauppauge capture.

Thanks a lot everyone for your help

[lollo]

i have pretty stable video image (the video does not severely shift left/right)

It does a bit. The even field often moves few pixel on the right.

I'm really worried about line TBC at this point, especially for SECAM tapes. Is there a way to fix this and if yes, what would it be?

Unfortunaly the T.B.C./N.R of JVC HR-S9700MS is not active when playing SECAM tapes. Not even if you output a PAL converted signal (MS series is capable to do this).

lollo mentioned passthrough DVR in another thread so if someone has good tips on proper passthrough DVR

You can add a specific DVD Recoder is pass-thorugh mode to use its line TBC. You have 2 options: feed it with the SECAM signal (I ignore if it will work or if the lineTBC correction will be active) or feed it with a converted PAL signal (ES-10 and ES-15 will work for sure).

Also note that the lineTBC correction works in accordance to scanlines (from bottom to top) not from left to right, so I am not 100% that your horizontal shift will be fixed.

A recommended device for reducing field shifting is the Pioneer DVR-530H (but its lineTBC is weak). https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/7577-reducing-vertical-jitter.html#post64523

Is there a software that can fix this

Yes, in AviSynth you can manually shift the bad fields and obtain something like this:

# shift field 15 even
field15even_shifted=video_org_sep_tff_even.trim(15,15).crop(2,0,0,0).addborders(0,0,2,0)

[Attachment 70215 - Click to enlarge]

but you have to manually find and fix all fields, which is a nightmare.

As alternative you can try stabMod() maybe doing a turnLeft().turnRight() (working on horizontal shift) for a better result, or give to this plugin a try: https://github.com/rsnitsch/vhs-deshaker

Some useful links for correcting shifted fields:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/12579-inserted-frames-reported-2.html
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/12929-how-replace-frames.html
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174756
many others if you search here in videohelp forums

Edit: When we talk about lineTBC crrection, we generally refer to a clean final picture where the scanlines are well aligned and then the vertical geometries are good (straight vertical lines for example). The vertical (or horizontal) field shift is a different issue.

[themaster1]

Better buy a second computer for that many tapes (me thinking)

[Selur]

Just for the fun of it, I threw QTGMC+ChromaShiftSP+FixChromaBleeding+Spotless+SCU Net at it,...

[JadHC]

i have pretty stable video image (the video does not severely shift left/right)

It does a bit. The even field often moves few pixel on the right.

I'm really worried about line TBC at this point, especially for SECAM tapes. Is there a way to fix this and if yes, what would it be?

Unfortunaly the T.B.C./N.R of JVC HR-S9700MS is not active when playing SECAM tapes. Not even if you output a PAL converted signal (MS series is capable to do this).

lollo mentioned passthrough DVR in another thread so if someone has good tips on proper passthrough DVR

You can add a specific DVD Recoder is pass-thorugh mode to use its line TBC. You have 2 options: feed it with the SECAM signal (I ignore if it will work or if the lineTBC correction will be active) or feed it with a converted PAL signal (ES-10 and ES-15 will work for sure).

Also note that the lineTBC correction works in accordance to scanlines (from bottom to top) not from left to right, so I am not 100% that your horizontal shift will be fixed.

A recommended device for reducing field shifting is the Pioneer DVR-530H (but its lineTBC is weak). https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/7577-reducing-vertical-jitter.html#post64523

Is there a software that can fix this

Yes, in AviSynth you can manually shift the bad fields and obtain something like this:

# shift field 15 even
field15even_shifted=video_org_sep_tff_even.trim(15,15).crop(2,0,0,0).addborders(0,0,2,0)

[Attachment 70215 - Click to enlarge]

but you have to manually find and fix all fields, which is a nightmare.

As alternative you can try stabMod() maybe doing a turnLeft().turnRight() (working on horizontal shift) for a better result, or give to this plugin a try: https://github.com/rsnitsch/vhs-deshaker

Some useful links for correcting shifted fields:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-capture/12579-inserted-frames-reported-2.html
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/12929-how-replace-frames.html
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174756
many others if you search here in videohelp forums

Edit: When we talk about lineTBC crrection, we generally refer to a clean final picture where the scanlines are well aligned and then the vertical geometries are good (straight vertical lines for example). The vertical (or horizontal) field shift is a different issue.

Hi lollo,

now that you were talking about TBC, it got me thinking. When i was buying my HR-S9700MS, i thought it had TBC mode that was working for SECAM tapes. When im looking at the manual - its in French (I dont speak French, but use google translate), it says the TBC does not work for MESECAM. (however, it should work for SECAM). I pulled out my VCR, triple checked it and realized that i did not turn on TBC when i was recording... [face palm] I attach re-recorded captures while TBC is on... it seems that the TBC function on HR-S9700MS actually works on SECAM tapes (i paid a lot of money for the VCR, so it better be). Do you think i still need DVR passthrough or do you consider it good as-is? Apologies for messing this up on my end.. im not a technical person, and i am very happy when i manage to plug the cables properly (it you read my other posts on this forum, you will find out that even such straight-forward task as plugging correct cables into correct ports can be very challenging for me)...

Btw, i have couple more questions:
1. im trying to set up huffyuv, but AmarecTv does not seem to support it... is there a guide somewhere it how to set up huffyuv in VirtualDub? I tried search option but no manual popped up for me.
2. Is it better to use Virtual Dub 1.5 or VirtualDub2?
3. In case i felt courageous & adventurous and actually got DVR, is the set up simple? Do i just plug the cables into input output ports and turn on DVR? or is it more technical than that, please?

Thanks a lot for your help, and thanks for spotting the issue...

[JadHC]

Better buy a second computer for that many tapes (me thinking)

hehe, im planning on it. I wanna buy super computer that will process QTGMC very fast, and i will use old computer for capturing... Otherwise, i will spend two years converting videos in QTGMC...

[JadHC]

Just for the fun of it, I threw QTGMC+ChromaShiftSP+FixChromaBleeding+Spotless+SCU Net at it,...

oh wow, how did you do that? i dont speak scripting so at the moment, I can only run plugins in AviSynth+, not scripts (thus only QTGMC and ChromaShift). Would you be willing to share your codes for Bleeding and Spotless? :O What is SCUNet? I cannot find it on AviSynth page :O

Thank you very much in advance!

[Selur]

I used Vapoursynth not AviSynth. AviSynth does not have SCUNet (https://github.com/HolyWu/vs-scunet https://github.com/cszn/SCUNet), also SCUNet requires a modern NVIDIA card.
For SpotLess and FixChromaBleeding I use the default values and for ChromaShiftSP I used -3.5 or 4.
With AviSynth, try MCTemporalDenoise with medium or 'very high' preset, to get started. (look into the script, it contains a good explanation about the parameters)

[lollo]

When im looking at the manual - its in French (I dont speak French, but use google translate), it says the TBC does not work for MESECAM.

Good for you. In my HR-S9500MS the TBC in not active with SECAM signals

1. im trying to set up huffyuv, but AmarecTv does not seem to support it... is there a guide somewhere it how to set up huffyuv in VirtualDub? I tried search option but no manual popped up for me.

HuffYUV must be installed on your system to make it available to AmarecTV and VirtualDub. On Windows10 I do this:

1- unzip huffyuv-2.1.1.zip to C:\

2- Copy huffyuv.dll and huffyuv.inf in C:\Windows\SysWOW64

3- Open up a command prompt (DOS box) as administrator (Tasto Windows + X -> Windows PowerShell (amministratore))

4- In the command prompt (DOS box) go to C:\Windows\SysWOW64

5- Type rundll32.exe C:\Windows\SysWOW64\setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 0 C:\huffyuv.inf

2. Is it better to use Virtual Dub 1.5 or VirtualDub2?

None, use VirtualDub 1.9.11. But AmarecTV is better.

3. In case i felt courageous & adventurous and actually got DVR, is the set up simple? Do i just plug the cables into input output ports and turn on DVR? or is it more technical than that, please?

Connection is easily S-Video to S-Video across all signal path. Using DVDR however, you should play attention to which port is used. Have a look here: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403635-Panasonic-DVD-recorder-passthrough-settings...15-DMR-ES25%29

I attach re-recorded captures while TBC is on

Your new capture is ok. I learned something today: the lineTBC of the JVC is able to correct the horizontal shift! (which I never met). Thanks for reporting your results! (but your new capture is AVC, I do not know why; i hope you did not miss raw captures and processed captures).

[JadHC]

I used Vapoursynth not AviSynth. AviSynth does not have SCUNet (https://github.com/HolyWu/vs-scunet https://github.com/cszn/SCUNet), also SCUNet requires a modern NVIDIA card.
For SpotLess and FixChromaBleeding I use the default values and for ChromaShiftSP I used -3.5 or 4.
With AviSynth, try MCTemporalDenoise with medium or 'very high' preset, to get started. (look into the script, it contains a good explanation about the parameters)

thanks for the explanations. it took me couple months to learn AviSynth but could test VapourSynth later on. I saw some threads about people fixing aliasing issues via VapourSynth and seemed to work better than AviSynth, so im intrigued. Though, it always takes me long to learn (lots of trials and errors).
It will take me couple weeks to crack Spotless/FixChromaBleeding, so i better start testing right away
Thanks for your inputs.

[JadHC]

Good for you. In my HR-S9500MS the TBC in not active with SECAM signals

Thanks. I read this thread before purchasing my JVC. The manual said that the VCR TBC should work for SECAM tapes but no one tested/confirmed it online, so it was bit of a gamble. But it seems that this might be the only model in JVC series that would support TBC for Secam tapes..
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/11461-tbc-secam-vhs-2.html

1. im trying to set up huffyuv, but AmarecTv does not seem to support it... is there a guide somewhere it how to set up huffyuv in VirtualDub? I tried search option but no manual popped up for me.

HuffYUV must be installed on your system to make it available to AmarecTV and VirtualDub. On Windows10 I do this:

1- unzip huffyuv-2.1.1.zip to C:\

2- Copy huffyuv.dll and huffyuv.inf in C:\Windows\SysWOW64

3- Open up a command prompt (DOS box) as administrator (Tasto Windows + X -> Windows PowerShell (amministratore))

4- In the command prompt (DOS box) go to C:\Windows\SysWOW64

5- Type rundll32.exe C:\Windows\SysWOW64\setupapi.dll,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 0 C:\huffyuv.inf

oh, thanks for this! i love that one can use HuffYuv for AmarecTv as well. its really straight forward and user friendly. I followed the installation steps and I think i got it... i now see codec HFYU in Amarec codec list.

None, use VirtualDub 1.9.11. But AmarecTV is better.

Thanks, will do so

Connection is easily S-Video to S-Video across all signal path. Using DVDR however, you should play attention to which port is used. Have a look here: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403635-Panasonic-DVD-recorder-passthrough-settings...15-DMR-ES25%29

oh, this is wonderful thread! im bookmarking it... My friend should have SECAM DVR so i can test it when he visits from France. i just wonder if his DVR has S-video ports. It might be an overkill as the VCR has TBC, but could test it out of curiosity.

Your new capture is ok. I learned something today: the lineTBC of the JVC is able to correct the horizontal shift! (which I never met). Thanks for reporting your results! (but your new capture is AVC, I do not know why; i hope you did not miss raw captures and processed captures).


[Attachment 70265 - Click to enlarge]


[Attachment 70266 - Click to enlarge]

thanks, the horizontal shift is not totally perfect, i would say its 90% of the cases, but its a definite improvement. Definitely happy i do not have to manually fix the frames. And yes, my new capture but Lagarith avi file (which was about 400 MB for those 30 sec), so i downsized it to mp4 file for the size sake... but yeah, i do record in Lossless avi so all good...

btw, your frame comparisons are amazing! i love how closely you are scrutinizing these..

[themaster1]

[QUOTE=JadHC;2686466][QUOTE=lollo;2686220]

When i was buying my HR-S9700MS, i thought it had TBC mode that was working for SECAM tapes. When im looking at the manual - its in French (I dont speak French, but use google translate), it says the TBC does not work for MESECAM. (however, it should work for SECAM).

Hey good find ! I just read the manual myself, maybe one of the few that support secam, report back asap

To add more credibility, the manual of my hr-s8600MS specify the tbc will not work for mesecam and secam tapes

[lollo]

Hey good find ! I just read the manual myself, maybe one of the few that support secam, report back asap

To add more credibility, the manual of my hr-s8600MS specify the tbc will not work for mesecam and secam tapes

Yes! We have been looking for a JVC S-VHS with TBC enabled for SECAM signal since longtime!!!

[JadHC]

Hey good find ! I just read the manual myself, maybe one of the few that support secam, report back asap

To add more credibility, the manual of my hr-s8600MS specify the tbc will not work for mesecam and secam tapes

Yes! We have been looking for a JVC S-VHS with TBC enabled for SECAM signal since longtime!!!

yes, it seems to be working properly now the only times when the image is not super-stabilized is when video is too dark, like instances when 80%-90% of the image is black. Top part is stabilized but bottom part is still a bit wiggly. I presume it could be because VCR does not have enough reference points to stabilize the image so Im trying to see if increasing brightness could fix the issue.

btw, i installed HUFFYUV codec, i didnt get any error during installation but when i open it in AmarecTv, i get attached error. At first, i thought it was because i installed 64 version in SysWow64, so reinstalled it again in System32. but it still didnt fix the issue. would you know why?

[themaster1]

To add more credibility, the manual of my hr-s8600MS specify the tbc will not work for mesecam and secam tapes

Yes! We have been looking for a JVC S-VHS with TBC enabled for SECAM signal since longtime!!!

yes, it seems to be working properly now the only times when the image is not super-stabilized is when video is too dark, like instances when 80%-90% of the image is black. Top part is stabilized but bottom part is still a bit wiggly. I presume it could be because VCR does not have enough reference points to stabilize the image so Im trying to see if increasing brightness could fix the issue.

I don't think the TBC works like that but more in RADIO frequencies ( FM modulated) . The reel is read by the heads (demodulated..isn't it ?) , preamplified and amplified some more later in the circuitry. As such what kills the signal is clearly noise (electro magnetic interferences) that can be caused by wifi, power line, bad grounding.

To get the best out that vcr i suggest you minimize noise sources with RF shielding foil on the cable ribbons (especially on preamp and AC head and probably the ribbon that goes to the TBC i believe that's the daughter board on the left side and that ribbon is kinda long, perfect to pick up noise (antennae like) if you ask me)