Here is my Setup. What do you think?

[plehoediv]

[QUOTE=oln;2688118]

Hardly any consumer devices support SCART RGB (the highest quality). .

Consumer VCRs that is. (well stuff not aimed at consumer use would more often use BNC cables for both composite and RGB.) The only ones that output RGB from the VCR side are some of the vcr/dvd combos with recording (like the DMR-EX95V mentioned here.) and maybe one or two other rare models. There wasn't much point in putting a composite->RGB decoder inside vcrs as that was present in every TV anyhow. (Though external S-Video -> RGB dongles for better quality from SVHS decks to TVs that lacked S-Video was a thing)

Other stuff like cable boxes, game consoles, dvd players and similar used RGB frequently. THe panasonic dvd-recorders will output RGB as well, though I'm not sure if they can record from it. Most things with SCART RGB output will typically output both RGB + composite by default + a signal that says there is rgb output which let the receiving device chose the preferred/supported signal. For S-Video or component over scart both devices has to be set to it manually since those are a bit of a "hack" and reuse the rgb and composite pins.

After reading your post again and doing some research online, I have a few more question. Y Pb Pr is the best possible quality output the EX95V has, right? If that is the case, why not use it? Since the ES15/EH55 do not have the same input, couldn't you just sent Y Pb Pr over SCART? (Unless of course I am not understanding how the whole SCART output thing works).
However, if you do that in order to get the best possible connection between the VCR and the DVDR, would that even make sense because you lose it all again, when going from ES15/EH55 to TRV820E via svideo?

Hope this makes sense.

Thanks.

[oln]

TLDR: If using the TRV820E for digitizing and dvd-recorder for stabilization, just use s-video from VCR->one of the dvd-recoders->camcorder. (Or S-Video from EX95V if using the internal VCR in that one, it goes via the TBC stuff internally.) There isn't anything else cable wise that will give any improvement for that setup.

The absolute highest quality output of the EX95V is HDMI. Using component/HDMI is an alternative if you have a capture device that supports it though the difference between it and S-Video isn't really noticeable with VHS/SVHS content. There isn't any purpose to outputting it into the EH55 or ES15 (and not sure if they even support it.) The video has already been via the TBC stuff internally via composite in the EX95V. (There is a slight other advantage to HDMI specifically in that it won't have the 8 pixels on each side blanked which can have content in it in a few cases, though since it has HDCP on it it can be a pain to capture from.)

The EX95V is basically just a EH55 with a VCR bolted and hooked up via composite and a HDMI output. I think some of these panasonic dvd-recorders do can the direct vcr output via composite if one wanted to use something else for stabilization but I've not gotten that to happen on my ES30V so not sure what settings make them do that.

[plehoediv]

TLDR: If using the TRV820E for digitizing and dvd-recorder for stabilization, just use s-video from VCR->one of the dvd-recoders->camcorder. (Or S-Video from EX95V if using the internal VCR in that one, it goes via the TBC stuff internally.) There isn't anything else cable wise that will give any improvement for that setup.

The absolute highest quality output of the EX95V is HDMI. Using component/HDMI is an alternative if you have a capture device that supports it though the difference between it and S-Video isn't really noticeable with VHS/SVHS content. There isn't any purpose to outputting it into the EH55 or ES15 (and not sure if they even support it.) The video has already been via the TBC stuff internally via composite in the EX95V. (There is a slight other advantage to HDMI specifically in that it won't have the 8 pixels on each side blanked which can have content in it in a few cases, though since it has HDCP on it it can be a pain to capture from.)

The EX95V is basically just a EH55 with a VCR bolted and hooked up via composite and a HDMI output. I think some of these panasonic dvd-recorders do can the direct vcr output via composite if one wanted to use something else for stabilization but I've not gotten that to happen on my ES30V so not sure what settings make them do that.

Alrighty them. That is all I needed to hear. Thank you so much.

P.S. I had forgotten about the HDMI.

[rgr]

[So, I would think it makes sense to use TBC while capturing and then use denoising for even better results. No?

Thanks.

DVD recorders also do denoise, especially when saving to MPEG2 format - better (JVC, with LSI chips) or worse (Panasonic). But it's not high quality noise reduction.

[plehoediv]

[So, I would think it makes sense to use TBC while capturing and then use denoising for even better results. No?

Thanks.

DVD recorders also do denoise, especially when saving to MPEG2 format - better (JVC, with LSI chips) or worse (Panasonic). But it's not high quality noise reduction.

Good to know. I remember trying to copy a VHS tape, using the EX95V, and would not work, no matter what I had tried. It was maddening. It turns out that it had something to do with the tape I was using... It was Copy Protected, ha ha.

[plehoediv]

BTW, so far, I transferred 10 VHS tapes to my computer, using the EX95V to EH55 to TRV820E to PC setup. I use ScenalyzerLive and it works great. However, today, I noticed my first and only dropped frame ever. Now, my OCD tells me to forget the 54min I already recorded and start fresh again, but is this really necessary? I am sure that one single frame dropped does not matter.

Thanks.

[oln]

Did Scenalyzer report a dropped frame or did you notice one when looking at the video manually?

If the formar it's likely it was dropped by the TRV820 or the computer, if the latter it might have been dropped by either of the panasonics. Also if using the EX95V just connect it directly to the TRV820 with s-video, sending the video via the EH55 as well won't do anything positive and risks messing with video levels and increases risk of frame drops due to drift between the devices. The EX95V already contains the same TBC stuff and digitizer as in the EH55.

[plehoediv]

Did Scenalyzer report a dropped frame or did you notice one when looking at the video manually?

I did not know that one can notice a dropped frame manually!? Anyhow, it was Scenalyzer showing "dropped: 1".

[/QUOTE]If the formar it's likely it was dropped by the TRV820 or the computer, if the latter it might have been dropped by either of the panasonics.[/QUOTE]

So... in either case, not an issue, right? I mean, what does a dropped frames really mean to the outcome? Is it "missing" somewhere and thus "shifting" things around? Sound kind of ridiculous, to be honest, ha ha.


[/QUOTE]Also if using the EX95V just connect it directly to the TRV820 with s-video, sending the video via the EH55 as well won't do anything positive and risks messing with video levels and increases risk of frame drops due to drift between the devices. The EX95V already contains the same TBC stuff and digitizer as in the EH55.[/QUOTE]

I am sure you are correct. However, right now, I am going to leave everything the way it is and transfer all my tapes. After that, I am going to take the EH55 out of the equation and do it all over again. LOL. Thats how I am. I have plenty of time on my hands and nothing "better" to do.

Thanks.

P.S. After doing it all over again without the EH55, I am probably going to do it again using the USB Video Grabber I have, ha ha. Why not.

[jagabo]

I did not know that one can notice a dropped frame manually!?

You can see a jump in motion if the frame is dropped and not replaced by anything else. Or you will often see an exact duplicate frame because the dropped frame was replaced by a copy of the previous frame.

[plehoediv]

I did not know that one can notice a dropped frame manually!?

You can see a jump in motion if the frame is dropped and not replaced by anything else. Or you will often see an exact duplicate frame because the dropped frame was replaced by a copy of the previous frame.

Ahh... I see.

Thanks.

P.S. But a missing/dropped frame is not an issue later when it comes to interlacing and what not, right?

[jagabo]

P.S. But a missing/dropped frame is not an issue later when it comes to interlacing and what not, right?

It is an issue. For example, a duplicate frame of interlaced video will cause backward motion for a frame. Say you have 8 consecutive fields paired as frames (each digit represents a field, sequentially numbered):

01 23 45 67

but frame 45 was dropped, and frame 23 was substituted to maintain A/V sync:

01 23 23 67

When you bob deinterlace that you get:

0 1 2 3 2 3 6 7

After the first field 3 motion moves backwards to field 2 again. Then field 3 is shown again. Then there's a jump to field 6...

Or, if a video frame is dropped (no substitution) but the audio coinciding with that frame isn't, you will get 1 frame worth A/V de-sync. Sync will get worse with each frame drop.

[plehoediv]

Thanks for taking the time to explain, but that is way over my head... Let me ask you this: Is there a feature in Scenalyzer that can fix the problem? I see nothing in the Options.

Having said that, I think the dropped frame must come from the tape having an "error". There is a spot that looks like someone hit record, and it recorded static for 10sec, and then goes back to whatever is on the tape.

[jagabo]

Thanks for taking the time to explain, but that is way over my head...

It's not over your head, it's trivially simple. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Or maybe you don't really understand what interlaced video is. I'll try again.

Let's use PAL as an example. An analog PAL video camera produces a unique field every 1/50 of a second. You are supposed to view that video one field at a time, a new field every 1/50 second. On an analog interlaced TV you never see a pair of fields at the same time. Each field comes from a unique point in time, spaced at the same 1/50 second intervals. So first you see a field taken at time t=0/50 . Then the next field taken at t=1/50, then t=2/50, t=3/50 etc. Let's use just the numerator of each of those time stamps to represent each field, 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. That's 8 consecutive fields.

When interlaced video is captured it is usually not stored as fields. Pairs of fields are woven together into frames. The first digital frame here would be fields at t=0/50 and t=1/50 woven together. The second digital frame gets fields t=2/50 and 3/50. Etc. Using just the numerators and pairing the digits gives you four frames: 01 23 45 67. So here 45 means the fields with timetamps 4/50 and 5/50 are woven together into a digital frame. Remember when you watch that video you're supposed to see one field at a time in the same order the camera produced them: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. That's what a Bob deinterlacer does with interlaced digital video.

But say your capture device dropped frame 45 and substituted a second copy of frame 23. You have 01 23 23 67. Now when you bob deinterlace that video to watch it you see this sequence of fields 0 1 2 3 2 3 6 7. So after the first field 3 you see field 2 again, then field 3 again. That represents a jump back in time. Then fields 4 and 5 are missing and you jump forward in time to fields 6 and 7.

Here's a graphic example:


[Attachment 70698 - Click to enlarge]

At the top is a normal interlaced video bobbed and slowed to 1 fps. You can see that the numbers increment normally and the motion of the white line is constant from left to right. At the bottom frame 45 was replaced with a second copy of frame 23. The bobbed video jumps back in time for a pair of fields then jumps forward.

[plehoediv]

Thanks for taking the time to explain, but that is way over my head...

It's not over your head, it's trivially simple. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Or maybe you don't really understand what interlaced video is. I'll try again.

Let's use PAL as an example. An analog PAL video camera produces a unique field every 1/50 of a second. You are supposed to view that video one field at a time, a new field every 1/50 second. On an analog interlaced TV you never see a pair of fields at the same time. Each field comes from a unique point in time, spaced at the same 1/50 second intervals. So first you see a field taken at time t=0/50 . Then the next field taken at t=1/50, then t=2/50, t=3/50 etc. Let's use just the numerator of each of those time stamps to represent each field, 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. That's 8 consecutive fields.

When interlaced video is captured it is usually not stored as fields. Pairs of fields are woven together into frames. The first digital frame here would be fields at t=0/50 and t=1/50 woven together. The second digital frame gets fields t=2/50 and 3/50. Etc. Using just the numerators and pairing the digits gives you four frames: 01 23 45 67. So here 45 means the fields with timetamps 4/50 and 5/50 are woven together into a digital frame. Remember when you watch that video you're supposed to see one field at a time in the same order the camera produced them: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. That's what a Bob deinterlacer does with interlaced digital video.

But say your capture device dropped frame 45 and substituted a second copy of frame 23. You have 01 23 23 67. Now when you bob deinterlace that video to watch it you see this sequence of fields 0 1 2 3 2 3 6 7. So after the first field 3 you see field 2 again, then field 3 again. That represents a jump back in time. Then fields 4 and 5 are missing and you jump forward in time to fields 6 and 7.

Here's a graphic example:


[Attachment 70698 - Click to enlarge]

At the top is a normal interlaced video bobbed and slowed to 1 fps. You can see that the numbers increment normally and the motion of the white line is constant from left to right. At the bottom frame 45 was replaced with a second copy of frame 23. The bobbed video jumps back in time for a pair of fields then jumps forward.

First, sorry for the late reply. Second, thanks for taking the time to explain. That said, I suddenly have dropped frames when capturing using my Blaupunkt RTV 936 to TRV820E to my PC? I never really had a any dropped frames using this setup. Now I might get up to 18 dropped frames on 3h length of video. Funny thing is, I do not see any sync issues at the end, so does it really matter?

HDD is fast enough. PC is old but like I said, never had issues before. I had recently installed an Antivirus software, so maybe that is what caused the dropped frames? Uninstalled it through, but have to wait until current capture is done in order to restart PC, and see if that fixed the issue.

Thanks.