Here is my Setup. What do you think?

[plehoediv]

Alright,

Here is my setup. Please let me know what I can improve.

DMR-EX95V VCR connected to ES-15 DVD Recorder via s-video for video, and RCA for audio. From the ES-15 I go to my little "video grabber" box via SCART to RCA adapter. The little grabber records on to a SD card. I used this setup before, without the ES-15. I read that the ES-15 has some sort of TBC, and that helps with the image quality.

I also attached some pictures showing the settings of the ES-15, but since I have no clue what they mean, it would be really nice if someone can look over them and tell me if I should change something. That includes my cables. I know just using the yellow for video is the worst. I think then comes Red/Blue/Green. But what about s-video and scart?

Thanks.

P.S. I also have a Blaupunkt RTV 936 (Panasonic NV-HS800) which is S-VHS and a Sony DCR-TRV820E. I already tried the camcorder to pc via firewire and it works. I know that this type of capturing is "better" but since I am still messing around with the software, I am going to capture with the setup mentioned above first.

[dellsam34]

Video samples?

[realspeed]

the big question is " does it make a nice cup of tea"?

[plehoediv]

Video samples?

Coming up. Lost my little SD card and it drives me nuts. Man, I searched everyone! IT IS GONE! Luckily, I have others, but you know how that is...

[plehoediv]

the big question is " does it make a nice cup of tea"?

Why, you like tea?

[Eric-jan]

It al depends which transfer/converter/capture devices you use, and how much money you spend or want to spend on it.
when capturing in MP4 on cheap convert/recording devices, you still need to convert to 4:3 (full frame)

btw. I don't know if the DMR-EX95V has the VHS refresh feature, otherwise you don't need to use the ES15 as passthrough

[plehoediv]

It al depends which transfer/converter/capture devices you use,

I use this one right now, but only because I didn't know better.

and how much money you spend or want to spend on it.

Well, I bought a Blaupunkt RTV 936 for 200 euro, then another one for 140, then a Panasonic NV-HS900 for 130, then a ES15 for 30 bucks and a Sony DCR-TRV820E for 200 bucks. The EX95V is from a loaner from a friend. Since the VCR's I got do not have TBC, I might sell them and get one with TBC. Even though the TRV820E is supposed to take care of that. I guess. I am not going to buy a 2000 Euro pro vcr because I see no need in that. That said, money is not an issue.

when capturing in MP4 on cheap convert/recording devices, you still need to convert to 4:3 (full frame)

Sure about that? My device shows me that is it recording in that format.

btw. I don't know if the DMR-EX95V has the VHS refresh feature, otherwise you don't need to use the ES15 as passthrough

If you don't know, how am I supposed to know, ha ha. Let me ask you this: Is it going to hurt if I just add a ES15?

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

The following sample is NOT from using a ES15. It is just from my EX95V to my video grabber.

On the left RCA to RCA and on the right S-Video to S-Video. I plan on making a few videos showing the differences. Next, I will incorporate the ES15 and try different way of connecting them all together.

Thanks.

P.S. I never put two of the same clips next to each other in Davinci Resolve, so I hope this is good.

[plehoediv]

Here is another clip. On the left is RCA to RCA and on the Right is SCART adapter to RCA. While doing this I realized that organization is everything! You cannot do this while sitting here in your robe watching TV! You have to document every step, or you are going to get confused like hell, ha ha.

Thanks.

[Eric-jan]

post #8
The one on the left has more contrast and color, both have no differences in sync issues, (people mention bright issues for RCA, but your SCART sample lacks it, it looks like the EX95V has the VHS fresh feature, other qualities i can't judge, i do see color flashes in both captures.

post #9
on the left still seems to me the best one color wise,

Money wise this capture device is not bad, did you test on lip-sync with long captures ?

try to keep/buy the Panasonic DMR-EX95V it has some handy features, Panasonic is my favourite, i've one too, that i'm very happy with.

[plehoediv]

post #8
The one on the left has more contrast and color, both have no differences in sync issues,

I always thought that one is supposed to avoid the high color and high contrast!?

(people mention bright issues for RCA, but your SCART sample lacks it, it looks like the EX95V has the VHS fresh feature, other qualities i can't judge, i do see color flashes in both captures.

Copy that.

post #9
on the left still seems to me the best one color wise,

Thanks for your input.

Money wise this capture device is not bad, did you test on lip-sync with long captures ?

I have some clips that are 2.5h long and the sync is right on. No issues!

try to keep/buy the Panasonic DMR-EX95V it has some handy features, Panasonic is my favourite, i've one too, that i'm very happy with.

I already asked my friend, but he doesn't want to sell it. My next plan is to test everything I already have and then post samples, for others to see if and why they should capture a certain way. Maybe some do not see a difference, or do not mind a difference in picture quality... they would rather save the money.

Thanks.

[Eric-jan]

Well, everybody has his own taste, i like contrast, but also shadows where they need to be, i like to use the black and white pipets in Davinci Resolve for the absolute white and black levels, and then some fine-tuning to my taste, but i use a analog to SDI converter now, and record with a Video Assist, only do post with (Mac) Laptop, before that i Used a BMD Intensity Shuttle, (i capture always with ProRes422LT codec)
which worked also fine because of the VHS fresh feature, which many Panasonic recording devices have, take advantage of the EX95V as long as you have it, try a better (more money needed) capture device, you already have a steady video signal….

[Alwyn]

If you don't know, how am I supposed to know, ha ha. Let me ask you this: Is it going to hurt if I just add a ES15?

It probably will, a bit. ES-10-type gear in the workflow is not damage-free. If the EX-95 has the VHS Fresh feature (similar as the ES-10), there is no point in having both in the chain.

You can tell if the EX-95 has VHS Fresh/TBC-ish by the absence of wavy edges, particularly in the upper part of the image. If you have to get another VCR that doesn't have a line TBC and your tapes are wonky then yes, you'll probably benefit from the ES-10.

[plehoediv]

Well, everybody has his own taste, i like contrast, but also shadows where they need to be,

I agree to each their own. I just thought that too much contrast was a sign of "bad" footage, or something like that.

i like to use the black and white pipets in Davinci Resolve for the absolute white and black levels, and then some fine-tuning to my taste,

Is this during capture or in post? Because if it is in post, I am going to make a note of it and use it later. For now I would like to just focus on getting the best capture with what I have.

but i use a analog to SDI converter now,

I will do that next and use my camcorder as AV to Digital.

and record with a Video Assist, only do post with (Mac) Laptop

Is "Video Assist" an app? Never mind, just googled it. It is a monitor and recorder. I see. So by using the Video Assist, you do not have to use a PC, correct? Is that the reason you would use one of those? What is the advantage over using a PC?

before that i Used a BMD Intensity Shuttle, (i capture always with ProRes422LT codec) which worked also fine because of the VHS fresh feature

Why did you stop using it?

many Panasonic recording devices have (VHS fresh feature), take advantage of the EX95V as long as you have it,

Is that VHS Fresh feature always enabled? Because in the settings I do not see it. Speaking of settings: I am confused with the AV1 output settings such as

Video (with component)

S Video (with component)

RGB 1 (without component)

RGB 2 (without component)

Are those settings important when playing a tape back to my recording device?

try a better (more money needed) capture device, you already have a steady video signal….

You mean by "steady video signal" the signal coming from the EX95V because of VHS fresh, right?

Thanks!

[plehoediv]

If you don't know, how am I supposed to know, ha ha. Let me ask you this: Is it going to hurt if I just add a ES15?

It probably will, a bit. ES-10-type gear in the workflow is not damage-free. If the EX-95 has the VHS Fresh feature (similar as the ES-10), there is no point in having both in the chain.

You can tell if the EX-95 has VHS Fresh/TBC-ish by the absence of wavy edges, particularly in the upper part of the image. If you have to get another VCR that doesn't have a line TBC and your tapes are wonky then yes, you'll probably benefit from the ES-10.

Interesting info.

I noticed that pretty much none of my tapes have wavy edges. Not when playing back on the EX95, the Blaupunkt RTV936 or some Panasonic I got. Forgot the name. I know it does not have TBC though.

So could it be that I don't have any wavy edges because my tapes are in good shape? See, never really understood the TBC things, but I believe I do now. You only need it with bad tapes. If the tapes are in good condition and playing just fine, you do not need TBC, right?

Thanks.

[plehoediv]

BTW, I think I captures my tapes three times by now. Once with every VCR I have. Better more footage than less, right? LOL.

[plehoediv]

One more thing: I just hit record on my video grabber and let it record. It has a signal detection feature, but I do not trust it. So I would rather record everything that is on the VHS tape and cut out later what I do not need. I use ffmpeg for that.

ffmpeg -i 1.mp4 -t 00:00:10 -c copy smallfile1.mp4 -ss 00:00:10 -c copy smallfile2.mp4

But I noticed that the output file looks a little bit different. Why? I thought this is "lossless" conversion!?

Thanks.

[Alwyn]

If the tapes are in good condition and playing just fine, you do not need TBC, right?

Correct. If the image is good and you're in-sync, that's all that matters. I'll put my flak jacket on now though, just in case others have a different opinion...

I can't help you with FFMPEG.

[Eric-jan]

My guess is.. the videograbber you are now using is also more "forgiving", with other capture devices this is not always the case.
the "with component" or "without component" settings has to do that you're not able to use the RGB SCART at the same time as the RCA red green blue option, RGB SCART was mostly used for better picture quality on Cathode Ray Tube tv's …the RCA component (YUV) can be used for flatscreen tv's/monitors in interlaced or progressive mode, i use the RCA component (interlaced) on my converter because only the Intensity Shuttle could capture progressive, i find the the workflow with my Video Assist (recorder) much easier to do,
You can also capture from the EX95V from HDMI,(no extra internal conversion to analog component) you do need a HDMI passthrough device to defeat HDCP, this way i also record from a DVB-T2 tuner (fullHD terrestial digital television). (DVB-T2 = h.265 stream)
Avidemux and MPEG Streamclip should also be able to do lossless mpeg cutting.. but i don't have experience with that, you can check out the software section of Videohelp for that.
Shutter Encoder is also a nice GUI for FFMPEG.

[plehoediv]

If the tapes are in good condition and playing just fine, you do not need TBC, right?

Correct. If the image is good and you're in-sync, that's all that matters. I'll put my flak jacket on now though, just in case others have a different opinion...

I can't help you with FFMPEG.

LOL let's see what others will say. Thanks.

[plehoediv]

My guess is.. the videograbber you are now using is also more "forgiving", with other capture devices this is not always the case.

Wow, at least one good thing about my device, ha ha.

the "with component" or "without component" settings has to do that you're not able to use the RGB SCART at the same time as the RCA red green blue option, RGB SCART was mostly used for better picture quality on Cathode Ray Tube tv's …the RCA component (YUV) can be used for flatscreen tv's/monitors in interlaced or progressive mode, i use the RCA component (interlaced) on my converter because only the Intensity Shuttle could capture progressive,

So, if I understood this correctly, those settings only make a difference for viewing the footage on a given device, but make no difference for me capturing, right?

i find the the workflow with my Video Assist (recorder) much easier to do, You can also capture from the EX95V from HDMI,(no extra internal conversion to analog component)

Ah, that makes sense! I never thought about that. Since a EX95V has HDMI out, and HDMI is digital, you can just record the footage without the need of further converting it from Analog to Digital! Genius. The only question is, how good of an analog to digital conversion does the EX95V do? I did a google search and it says:

"ADCs follow a sequence when converting analog signals to digital. They first sample the signal, then quantify it to determine the resolution of the signal, and finally set binary values and send it to the system to read the digital signal. Two important aspects of the ADC are its sampling rate and resolution."

It sounds to me that as long you use "decent" parts, all devices should convert somewhat the same. No?

you do need a HDMI passthrough device to defeat HDCP,

No need for that.

this way i also record from a DVB-T2 tuner (fullHD terrestial digital television). (DVB-T2 = h.265 stream)

Cool.

Avidemux and MPEG Streamclip should also be able to do lossless mpeg cutting.. but i don't have experience with that, you can check out the software section of Videohelp for that.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Shutter Encoder is also a nice GUI for FFMPEG.

DUDE!!! This is a life changer! I hate all that command line crap! So glad you told me about this!!! Seriously!

Thanks!

[lollo]

Video samples?

Looking to plehoediv's pictures, he's still using the ClearClick device, so the "quality" will be the same of the samples he provided in the previous thread.

[Eric-jan]

There are some obvious advantages and disadvantages with capturing by computer or any hardware recorder, on a computer/laptop you can fine tune capture settings,(do more compression passes,to improve file size and quality) a hardware recorder is What You See Is What You Get, limited codec options with hardware recorder, you can't optimize compression, the ClearClick only does MP4 ? the Video Assist uses ProRes422 in different quality/compression presets, though the compression is different from h.264, and is used specially for better data rate during capture and post work, so it's about time and money…
The ClearClick itself defeats DHCP i now understand, the Video Assist does not
The Shutter Encoder has also options for lossless cutting i just discovered, it also has many codec options, I noticed they also regulary update for improvements, (and options i guess)
Like said, the ClearClick is not for optimal quality, but certainly has it's advantages, much also depends on quality of the source footage.
In case of Panasonic recorders, you might find the following also of interest….
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403635-Panasonic-DVD-recorder-passthrough-settings...15-DMR-ES25%29

[rgr]

One more thing: I just hit record on my video grabber and let it record. It has a signal detection feature, but I do not trust it. So I would rather record everything that is on the VHS tape and cut out later what I do not need. I use ffmpeg for that.

ffmpeg -i 1.mp4 -t 00:00:10 -c copy smallfile1.mp4 -ss 00:00:10 -c copy smallfile2.mp4

But I noticed that the output file looks a little bit different. Why? I thought this is "lossless" conversion!?

Thanks.

The output will be the same, but the player may display differently. Paste samples.

[plehoediv]

There are some obvious advantages and disadvantages with capturing by computer or any hardware recorder, on a computer/laptop you can fine tune capture settings,(do more compression passes,to improve file size and quality)

Makes sense.

a hardware recorder is What You See Is What You Get, limited codec options with hardware recorder, you can't optimize compression,

Copy that.

the ClearClick only does MP4 ?

Yes.

the Video Assist uses ProRes422 in different quality/compression presets, though the compression is different from h.264, and is used specially for better data rate during capture and post work, so it's about time and money…

I see.

The ClearClick itself defeats DHCP i now understand, the Video Assist does not

I was using an official skate video made by Powell Peralta, when testing different cables and settings. No issues when recording to the Video Grabber. I then wanted to test the DMR-EX95V's 'VHS to DVD' feature and it wouldn't work. I tried everything but nothing. It was driving me nuts. I then got my ES15 and hooked that up. It was the ES15 who ended up telling me that it can't make a copy because the tape is copyright protected. LOL. I had no idea.

The Shutter Encoder has also options for lossless cutting i just discovered, it also has many codec options, I noticed they also regulary update for improvements, (and options i guess)

I am always up for getting some gadget, ha ha.

Like said, the ClearClick is not for optimal quality, but certainly has it's advantages, much also depends on quality of the source footage.

I totally agree. The convenience is one of the things I like about it. When it comes to the quality, I am ok with it. It just looks like VHS, and that look is what I grew up on.

In case of Panasonic recorders, you might find the following also of interest….
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/403635-Panasonic-DVD-recorder-passthrough-settings...15-DMR-ES25%29

Gonna check it out. Thanks. EDIT: I have seen and been to that thread but thanks anyway.

[plehoediv]

One more thing: I just hit record on my video grabber and let it record. It has a signal detection feature, but I do not trust it. So I would rather record everything that is on the VHS tape and cut out later what I do not need. I use ffmpeg for that.

ffmpeg -i 1.mp4 -t 00:00:10 -c copy smallfile1.mp4 -ss 00:00:10 -c copy smallfile2.mp4

But I noticed that the output file looks a little bit different. Why? I thought this is "lossless" conversion!?

Thanks.

The output will be the same, but the player may display differently. Paste samples.

I see.

Working on the samples. Needed some new cables and adapter. Samples will follow.

Thanks.

[lollo]

When it comes to the quality, I am ok with it. It just looks like VHS, and that look is what I grew up on

I disagree on that, but you already knew that

With the ClearClick device you are decreasing the intrinsic quality of the VHS.

S-VHS/VHS quality is much better than that, as you can see in some samples listed in this post https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/405502-YouTube-channels-playlists-showcasing-captu...eo#post2654664

But, if you are satisfied with your results, that's all that matters!

[plehoediv]

[QUOTE=lollo;2686013]

When it comes to the quality, I am ok with it. It just looks like VHS, and that look is what I grew up on

I disagree on that, but you already knew that

It's all good.

With the ClearClick device you are decreasing the intrinsic quality of the VHS.

Yup.

S-VHS/VHS quality is much better than that, as you can see in some samples listed in this post https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/405502-YouTube-channels-playlists-showcasing-captu...eo#post2654664

But, if you are satisfied with your results, that's all that matters!

I will take a look at the link. Thanks. Like I said before, I can live with the quality, but that doesn't mean that I am not going to try to capture in a better quality. Sometimes, when it gets overwhelming with all the info, I look at my ClearView and think, "Yeah, it could be better..." if you know what I mean.

BTW, did you ever share (with me) your workflow? What capture card/method do you use?

Thanks.

[lollo]

My workflow is detailed in the YT videos 😉

[plehoediv]

My workflow is detailed in the YT videos 😉

Found it!

Digitized from VHS using:
JVC HR-XVS20 SVHS VCR -(svideo)- Panasonic DMR-EH57 DVD-recorder -(hdmi)- Avermedia U3 capture card
Processed with avisynth, ffmpeg and audacity