Black screen when using WinDV to transfer mini tapes.

[winterhawk]

I am trying to transfer mini tapes from SONY model DVR-TRV17 Handicam to Dell Laptop using conversion cables from Camera to Thunderbolt port on Laptop. I am using WinDV software program. The software program open OK, and when I choose "Capture" the bottom panel on the screen says "Capturing", yet the counter does not move, and the video screen stays black. The video and Audio playback on the camera LCD screen is running, and in camera menu the A/V is set to ON. Device Manager in Windows 11 shows the Sony camera and running OK. I have tried everything I know and am at a standstill of frustration. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[smrpix]

You're being vague on "using conversion cables from Camera to Thunderbolt port on Laptop. " There are a very few specific combinations that may work. It's pretty involved.

Good overview: https://www.dvmp.co.uk/dv-capture-over-thunderbolt.htm

[Alwyn]

Give Scenalyzer a try. WinDV is very hit and miss on my system (stock Firewire, Win 10). Here's my PDF guide:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/158O_LS9Lb2vqEOtLeVyRF0V5_P84aXGH/view?usp=share_link

[winterhawk]

smrpix, thank you for your reply. All the cable special adapters are all Apple, bought on Amazon as guaranteed APPLE. The cables are all the ones that are shown in in the overview you thoughtfully included which is excellent. I also have device manager showing Thunderbolt (TM) Controller 15E8. Under IEEE Host Controllers, LSI 1394 OHCI Host Controller is listed. So, I am still dead in the water, suggestions?

[winterhawk]

Alwyn, thank you for your quick response, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to reply. I am going to give Scenalyzer a try if I do not find the cause of WinDV showing a Black screen with no video and no sound. For some reason for which I cannot seem to find, the video is just not transferring. It is frustrating to me because I have seen another UTube video, done very well, using Windows 11 and WinDV software, and all the replies get theirs to work with the same cables that I have and same software and the same Thunderbolt 3 port. At this point I don't know if the software program is at fault or some Computer setting for which I cannot find.

[dellsam34]

Post a picture of your thunderbolt port on the computer, Are you sure it is not displayport with DP logo, If so it wouldn't work despite being physically identical to TB port.
If you are using a USB-C TB port then you need to check the TB app software and make sure it pops up when you insert the cable into USB-C TB port.

[winterhawk]

Good morning dellsam34, I am VERY sure the port on my Dell model G7700 Laptop is Thunderbolt 3. It also has the lightning bolt logo above it also. However, I never see any Thunderbolt app software pop up. All I hear is the Laptop sound off it when it sees new hardware plugged in-or when I turn ON the Camera, or, plug in the cable. No APP shows up on the screen.

[winterhawk]

dellsam34,here are some photos of the hookup to the Dell G7700 Laptop, as weel as screen shot of Device Manager, as well as the WinDV screen, showing "capturing" but nothing on the WinDV screen.
[Attachment 69500 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 69501 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 69502 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 69503 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 69505 - Click to enlarge]

[aedipuss]

winDV should say sony dv camcorder in the video source box. click the square button with ... to the right of current source to see if the sony is listed, if it is switch to it.

[winterhawk]

It says Microsoft DV Camera and VCR now, and when I check the box next to the right all it has listed is "Integrated Webcam"

[aedipuss]

then the sony isn't going to work, winDV can't find and connect to the hardware. why aren't you using an apple program to transfer the tape, as it appears you are using a mac.

[Bwaak]

@aedipuss, it is clear he uses a Windows machine.

@winterhawk, it is not very productive to keep asking questions about WinDV after you've been advised to use Scenalyzer. Although I agree with you that WinDV should work too, I saw the same videos on YouTube as you have.

[winterhawk]

Bwaak, I have Scenalyzer loaded on my screen as I author this reply. In fact I have tried to get it working for two days!! So please don't make a statement that it is not very productive. I am frustrated as hell because everyone has ideas, but nothing is working as it should. For instance, "Select Capture Device", Device Manager sees it fine, yet this program cannot? WHY? If cabling was a problem, Device Manager would not even have it listed. I cannot move forward with this program until the program sees the camera. Is it a bad cable? Faulty APPLE Dongles? They are brand new from Amazon, not knock-offs either.

[winterhawk]

Aedipuss, if you read my opening comment, I have a DELL G7700 running windows 11. The dongles are APPLE because they are the only ones that are reported by users that work with PC running windows 10 or 11. I'm beginning to wonder if the Apple dongles or cables are faulty, but I doubt it.

[Alwyn]

You wouldn't have a 12th gen Intel CPU by any chance? Seems that this can't be done with the 12th gens (also in the comments):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT0oDYbqwwk

Also, I use this to install the "legacy" Firewire drivers on Win 10:

https://www.startech.com/en-us/faq/firewire-cards-windows-legacy-driver-swap

[Alwyn]

winDV should say sony dv camcorder in the video source box.

Not here. My Sony D8 camera comes up as the "Microsoft DV Camera and VCR" (WinDV and Scenalyzer). The camera is shown in Device Manager>Imaging Devices as a "Sony DV Camcorder".

[aedipuss]

sorry. i've not found anything (apple included) that will allow old dv/hdv firewire programs to work with w10 or newer. it's why i'll never update this comp from win8.1

[Alwyn]

@Winterhawk, I just noticed your earlier observation about "LSI" IEEE1394 host controller. Mine is "OHCI":


[Attachment 69533 - Click to enlarge]

I assume that came from my install of the Startech IEEE1394 driver procedure.

[aedipuss]

lol. those are screen caps of win10/11???? that crap looks like an apple homescreen.

[Alwyn]

If you can't beat them, join them!

[dellsam34]

OP, Did you try to discard the TB to USB adapter and connect the firewire to TB adapter directly to the TB port, Or is it a display port? I can't make out what it is from your pictures. But again search and run the TB app in your system, If you can't find it you may need to update your laptop drivers from the manufacturer.

I tried a laptop I have a day ago (Lenovo Legion - Win 10) with a DV/HDV deck and was exactly in your situation, it just diplays balck screen, Went into the BIOS and couldn't find an option to enable the TB feature, So connected the laptop to Lenovo web page and did an automatic search for missing drivers and it found one driver missing, guess what it is, The TB driver. After a successufull installation of the driver and a reboot I was able to see the Apple adapter in the list of devices in the TB app (I have the exact Apple adapters you have). Switching from DV to HDV though or vise versa requires unplugging and plugging back in the adapters, but otherwise works flawlessly. I do have a Sony laptop with the original iLink port using Win 7 for this kind of firewire work, DV, DVCAM, HDV, D-VHS ...etc, I just wanted to see if I could run it on a modern laptop, and it did.

If you don't see the adapter listed like in the attached screenshot that means something wrong.

[winterhawk]

Dellsam, thank you for taking time to do that research. I am going to recheck my drivers for TB, the last time I checked two days ago everything was as it should be. But, I am going to open the TB APP to see if it indeed has the Apple TB firewire adapter listed, good point. Device manger sees the Sony camera OK every time I turn the camera ON, so that signal is getting through the adapters and cable OK. Video is another story. I did not try going directly from the 4 pin mini IEEE port on the Sony to the Laptop TB C port, I don't have a firewire cable that goes directly to TB C. Another point of interest; Scott Schramm does an EXCELLENT Utube video of using WinDV on a windows 11 Laptop, however it does NOT work (yet) with Intel processor above 10th generation, why, I do not know, and Scott is looking into this I believe. My DELL Laptop is a 2022 , i7 processor, running windows 11, 10th generation processor.

Scott's latest UTube on TB issues and generations of Intel processors is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3OIcw4QH1w

[dellsam34]

What I meant is the other port next to the USB-C, The one that looks like a display port, If that's a TB you can skip USB-C and use one adapter only from firewire to TB.

[winterhawk]

dellsam 34: The port next to the Thunderbolt 3 USB Type-C port is a Mini Display Port
The spec on Dell sheet says it connects to a TV or another Display Port-in enabled device. Provides video and Audio output. It is NOT TB unfortunately.

[Alwyn]

Scott's latest UTube on TB issues and generations of Intel processors is here:

He didn't mention the two best solutions if you can't get Thunderbolt to work.

1. Use a Pinnacle 710-USB box (or similar-shaped device) to transfer DV or HDV. These boxes ingest DV through Firewire and convert it to a USB "signal" that WinDV/Scenalyzer or HDVSplit (as applicable) will read as DV. Don't ask me how they do it!

Caveat: My 710-USB works on Win 10. I don't have Win 11.

2. Use a good analogue capture stick such as a GV-USB2 to capture the S-video output from the camcorder into a lossless format such as Lagarith (for later processing/conversion). The quality is so close to DV that it's indistinguishable).

[dellsam34]

Not sure if Pinnacle devices have a driver for HDV, As far as I know they are designed for DV/D8, I will give it a try when I get time on my 500-USB.

[Alwyn]

My 710-USB works fine capturing with HDVSplit with my HV20 in HDV mode.

Yet another option, if one has a Canon HV series camera, is an HDMI capture from the camera HDMI-Out.

[winterhawk]

My Sony camera is a model DCR-TRV17, which NOT a HD camera unfortunately, so I cannot use HDVSplit, does not work! The idea of using a camera with HDMI-OUT is a good idea, however that means going out and spending more money to find and buy a Digital (used) camera with HDMI-OUT. I think first I am going to see if using a Thunderbolt Docking station will work after watching : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3OIcw4QH1w

[aedipuss]

a couple things. make sure winDV is not installed in any of the crograms folders and make sure to right click on the exe, go to properties and select run as admin. apply and ok.

[winterhawk]

I have tried several times to run this program in either RUN, or, RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR with same results, black screen, the program screen opens, I can select capture, it says capturing, but screen remains black. I have not seen WinDV in any folders, it shows in DOWNLOADS list, it doesn't install in any folder.