My Vhs (Capture). Analyze me!

[Litaiff]

So, here's the thing.

I'm a brazilian guy, (sorry my not so bad english).

I'm doing my VHS conversion style.

I've been doing this for about 3 years now, of course always learning, especially with you guys.

Always using more a DVD recorder (Philips DVDR 3355), at maximum quality, and 99% of the time using a D-Vhs deck with S-Video cable output.

I'm using the computer sometimes and this is what I'm doing on it:

As a capture program, I always liked to use MPC together with Xvid codecs.

Yes, I've used several conversion programs, some came with capture cards, but I didn't like them. So visually, I like the results better with MPC (Media Player Classic) together with Xvid.

As a capture card I use the Pinnacle 700pci.

Using D-Vhs outputing the S-Video, plus Pinnacle 700pci, plus MPC and Xvid Condecs, with an AVI file and a computer without a graphics card, but a good DDR3 computer with windows 7.

I left two files with the specifications of each file, one in the maximum quality of the Xvid codec and another of the same snippet from the VHS NTSC tape at a quality close to maximum of the Xvid codec that does not generate a huge AVI file (and that one I usually do more that way, because I see that the final quality is the same.)

I make my own configuration to convert, I tried to get close to the quality that the DVD record makes at maximum quality and I always get good results.

But I always want to improve, with the tools I have for now.

That's why I ask you guys to evaluate me, tell me what I need to improve. Am I doing it all wrong? Something I have to change?

Anyway, analyze my conversion and tell me the negative and positive points I got. I'm open to very strict criticism!


[Attachment 69136 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 69137 - Click to enlarge]

[Litaiff]

Encoder Configs

[Attachment 69140 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 69141 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 69142 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 69143 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 69144 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 69145 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 69146 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 69147 - Click to enlarge]

[dellsam34]

Audio for video is always 48KHz, not 44.1KHz.

[Litaiff]

Audio for video is always 48KHz, not 44.1KHz.

Yes, I always do that, I left the 44.1KHz unnoticed when converting this section.
I know you are an expert, anything else different or wrong, please tell me.

[themaster1]

Do you actually capture in xvid or it's just an aftward convertion ? Capturing would be a no-no from me.
By the way, the frame rate seems to be non standard 30.362 fps

[oln]

Any particular reason to use XviD instead of h.264 for final output? Xvid and the like is kinda antiquated and there is not much reason for using it over better formats unless you want to play the files back on some device that supports that but not later formats.

The framerate should also be set as 29.97, not 30.

[Litaiff]

Do you actually capture in xvid or it's just an aftward convertion ? Capturing would be a no-no from me.
By the way, the frame rate seems to be non standard 30.362 fps

Yes, i do capture in xvid. So, what should I do?

[Litaiff]

Any particular reason to use XviD instead of h.264 for final output? Xvid and the like is kinda antiquated and there is not much reason for using it over better formats unless you want to play the files back on some device that supports that but not later formats.

The framerate should also be set as 29.97, not 30.

I don't really know how to explain why I use xvid, I tested several others, including the one you mentioned. Visually I liked it better. But I could be wrong. Did you see both videos? Any criticism? Could it come out better?

[Cornucopia]

I didn't look at the videos yet, but that doesn't matter because the specs say enough:
1st one is MPEG4-Version2, Simple Profile (the kind often encoded by Apple Quicktime, pre-AVC)
2nd one is XVID. Aka MPEG4-Version2 Advanced Simple Profile

It's no surprise it is better because it is using more advanced algorithms.
BUT...

It was good as an option for up until ~2006-2007. Since then, AVC, aka h.264 aka MPEG4-Version10 (with many profiles) is tons better in quality. And it has been the best option for capable/supporting devices since then, until about 2018-2019, when HEVC aka h.265 aka MPEG-H (also with many profiles) became good enough and now IT is often the best consumer option, especially with > HD resolution stuff. There are other ones better still on the horizon, but they are so complex that they aren't good options for day-to-day devices yet.

So the question comes back to - what devices are you playing this on, and do they also support something better such as AVC?
If so, you should notice a big improvement over XVID, not to mention MPEG4 simple profile stuff.

Scott

[Litaiff]

So the question comes back to - what devices are you playing this on, and do they also support something better such as AVC?
If so, you should notice a big improvement over XVID, not to mention MPEG4 simple profile stuff.

Scott

I'm doing this generally to be viewed on computers.
I don't remember testing this codec you said, but I will. Is there something in here about how to install and download?

another question, will my computer support this encoding?
Note: My pinnacle capture card only supports up to 720x480

By the way, i have this installed:
[Attachment 69155 - Click to enlarge] @Cornucopia

[Litaiff]

By the way, i have this installed:
[Attachment 69155 - Click to enlarge] @Cornucopia

So, i wanna try this... Is the one you mentioned? @Cornucopia ?
Can you teach me the exact setting to select?
As I said, I've tested several codecs, but I may have done something wrong using this one.

[lordsmurf]

FYI, that x264vfw gives non-standard output.

So many "smart" (dumb) TVs won't play it, many BD players, media center boxes, etc.

If I want to be lazy, and snip up clips in VirtualDub, output this way, I still have to re-encode in Hybrid for smooth playback in all home devices. I've only had one personal TV show project where I wanted to be that lazy.

[Litaiff]

FYI, that x264vwf gives non-standard output.

So many "smart" (dumb) TVs won't play it, many BD players, media center boxes, etc.

If I want to be lazy, and snip up clips in VirtualDub, output this way, I still have to re-encode in Hybrid for smooth playback in all home devices. I've only had one personal TV show project where I wanted to be that lazy.

Do you know how to use these AVC, aka h.264 aka MPEG4-Version10 or h.265 aka MPEG-H that Scott mentioned?

[Litaiff]

Can i change to this? (marked in red)
[Attachment 69217 - Click to enlarge]

If someone can explain it to me, I would like to understand the other things, the ''interlaced encoding'' and ''top field first'' thing I already know.

[Skiller]

Can i change to this? (marked in red)

The profile and level choice is of any importance only if you plan on playing this on hardware (such as media players, DVD-players with MPEG4-ASP support). It limits certain settings to keep the video within the chosen profile and level to guarantee compatibility.

"Quantization type" lets you change the quantization matrix to a custom one, but there really is no point in doing that, the standard setting is good.

[Litaiff]

Can i change to this? (marked in red)

The profile and level choice is of any importance only if you plan on playing this on hardware (such as media players, DVD-players with MPEG4-ASP support). It limits certain settings to keep the video within the chosen profile and level to guarantee compatibility.

"Quantization type" lets you change the quantization matrix to a custom one, but there really is no point in doing that, the standard setting is good.

Thanks!

How about that --->
[Attachment 69233 - Click to enlarge]

Clicked on ''more'' of single pass, does it have something to do with lossless?

[Cornucopia]

Don't start changing stuff if you don't clearly know what it does. Learn the ins & outs of how it works first.

I would say, Get ffmpeg, and a GUI for it, and test with that, using "default" settings, to compare your encodes, varying the codec to see what is different.

Scott

[Litaiff]

Don't start changing stuff if you don't clearly know what it does. Learn the ins & outs of how it works first.

I would say, Get ffmpeg, and a GUI for it, and test with that, using "default" settings, to compare your encodes, varying the codec to see what is different.

Scott

Hello. I already did with ffmpeg, didnt like them, i would test with this one --->
[Attachment 69246 - Click to enlarge]
But what would be the best configs? And why it don't have the interlaced encoding thing like xvid has?

Sorry I'm about 40% layman.

[Litaiff]

So, How can i use these codecs AVC, h.264, MPEG4-Version10 to test another way to convert ? Anyone? I use Windows 7 and 8.

[Skiller]

Don't bother with x264vfw. AVC in AVI is a deprecated hack and should not be used.

Use something like HandBrake and use container formats such as MKV or MP4.

[Litaiff]

Don't bother with x264vfw. AVC in AVI is a deprecated hack and should not be used.

Use something like HandBrake and use container formats such as MKV or MP4.

Avi is not the better for capture analog tapes? Well, all I want is the convert using the AVC, h264, h265 whatever. The hours I have to search the internet about this didn't give me good answers, so it's why I still trying in here.

[lordsmurf]

Don't bother with x264vfw. AVC in AVI is a deprecated hack and should not be used.
use container formats such as MKV or MP4.

Avi is not the better for capture analog tapes?

Lossless AVI is suggested for the capture. But converting that capture should be done using the MP4 or MKV container, not AVI.

x264vfw is very old, one of the earliest GUIs from the 2000s.

Handbrake sucks for analog capture sourcess (makes a mess of AR and interlace), and Hybrid is vastly superior here.

[Sharc]

..... and Hybrid is vastly superior here.

True, but I would not recommend Hybrid to newbies. They should at least have a solid basic understanding of video and Avisynth, otherwise they will get lost in desperation.
Maybe Avidemux is something the OP could try? Still, these GUIs do not save the user from understanding video basics.

[Litaiff]

Don't bother with x264vfw. AVC in AVI is a deprecated hack and should not be used.
use container formats such as MKV or MP4.

Avi is not the better for capture analog tapes?

Lossless AVI is suggested for the capture. But converting that capture should be done using the MP4 or MKV container, not AVI.

x264vfw is very old, one of the earliest GUIs from the 2000s.

Handbrake sucks for analog capture sourcess (makes a mess of AR and interlace), and Hybrid is vastly superior here.

The fact is I'm not going to convert anything, just capture and that's it. I've always captured in AVI, I use Xvid Codec more because it gives me the option to select deinterlaced mode, the others don't.

[Litaiff]

Don't bother with x264vfw. AVC in AVI is a deprecated hack and should not be used.
use container formats such as MKV or MP4.

Avi is not the better for capture analog tapes?

Lossless AVI is suggested for the capture. But converting that capture should be done using the MP4 or MKV container, not AVI.

x264vfw is very old, one of the earliest GUIs from the 2000s.

Handbrake sucks for analog capture sourcess (makes a mess of AR and interlace), and Hybrid is vastly superior here.

Is there any link for a video tutorial to use the Hybrid ?

[lordsmurf]

The fact is I'm not going to convert anything, just capture and that's it. I've always captured in AVI, I use Xvid Codec more because it gives me the option to select deinterlaced mode, the others don't.

You're doing it wrong.

Correct =
1. capture lossless
2. convert capture to delivery (H.264)

Never capture to delivery. It does not work well, or at all.

[Litaiff]

The fact is I'm not going to convert anything, just capture and that's it. I've always captured in AVI, I use Xvid Codec more because it gives me the option to select deinterlaced mode, the others don't.

You're doing it wrong.

Correct =
1. capture lossless
2. convert capture to delivery (H.264)

Never capture to delivery. It does not work well, or at all.

Where? In the Xvid Codec? I didn't try the
[Attachment 69614 - Click to enlarge] because it is giving an error while initiates

[Litaiff]

[Attachment 69615 - Click to enlarge] This error happens

[Sharc]

Is there any link for a video tutorial to use the Hybrid ?

Hybrid is for postprocessing and encoding, not for capturing.
For capturing you should
- install a lossless codec like Huffyuv, Lagarith, or UTvideo for example
- use VirtualDub or AmarecTV as your capturing software rather than anything else

I am afraid you won't get much help with capturing to a lossy (=compressed) format like XviD or similar. But if you are happy with the results which you get it's just fine. Just wondering about the strange framerate. Dropped or duplicated frames?
Capturing directly to compressed x264 is even more CPU hungry than XviD, so the risk of glitches increases.

[lordsmurf]

The fact is I'm not going to convert anything, just capture and that's it. I've always captured in AVI, I use Xvid Codec more because it gives me the option to select deinterlaced mode, the others don't.

You're doing it wrong.

Correct =
1. capture lossless
2. convert capture to delivery (H.264)

Never capture to delivery. It does not work well, or at all.

Where? In the Xvid Codec? I didn't try the
because it is giving an error while initiates

Stop using x264vfw.