I have 100+ Video cassettes of SVHS, and I would like to digitalize them to files.
The questions is what to do not to lose quality.
Option 1:
Buy an SVHS video player. I think something from JVC, who invented the SVHS. Doesn't matter which player exactly if it supports SVHS.
Then use the S-VIDEO output in Elgato capture. Then capture it to MPEG-4.
Option 2:
I thought maybe there is an SVHS video player that already had HDMI output. This way, there are fewer conversions on the way and better quality. Do you know about such?
Option 3:
Option 1, can cost about $500. But I can spend more. It's very important historical footage. Are there any special machines that can directly play SVHS and save it to files? This way, I don't even need to convert to HDMI and then to MPEG4.
Option 4:
Do you have any other idea how to convert to get the best quality?
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If your budget is truly unlimited and the footage is historic then I'd recommend hiring a professional.
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@Zing269 Good idea! And sounds like the easiest and fastest solution.
The problem is that I'm really afraid of the materials, so I'm not willing to send them to someone else.
I prefer to work hard.
I hope that there is a simple answer.
Since every solution is a balance between quality and pricing, and I want to the best quality, I hoped the answer would be simple Buy ABC, and use Software XYZ. And voila.
I understand that maybe there are multiple devices, and different people will recommend different devices.
I have no problem buying 2 or 3the most recommended solutions. I will test and update you with the results. But I need those setups. -
I would start with this article at digitalfaq, Whats in a Professional Video Workflow to Convert Analog Videotapes?, it list specific models of hardware.
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If you really care about good quality you will never capture directly to mpeg-4, Always capture lossless AVI 4:2:2, de-interlace, (and probably resize to 1440x1080), then encode to a final format, usually h.264 @ 4:2:0.
A S-VHS player is a must since tapes are S-VHS but one with built in line TBC will give you rock solid results, Again if you want the best quality the built line TBC will become a must, this will narrow down your choices to Panasonic or JVC.
Having S-VHS with built in line TBC machine will give you more options in choosing a capture device so an Elgato will probably work fine.
Stay away from HDMI as long as we are talking about analog tapes.
Here is how you would expect S-VHS to look like if it's done right. -
I agree with dellsam34. But before anyting else, the key piont of a good capture is the condition of the tapes.
If they are in pristine shape, a high end S-VHS player with line TBC and one of the reccomended capture card is fine.
If they are not, few options are available according to specific problem.
Extensive flagging and jitter may require disable the lineTBC of the VCR and use a specific DVD Recorder in pass-trough mode.
Degradation of the signal, leading to dropped frames and the A/V asynch, may require the addition of a frameTBC device.
Instable signals even with lineTBC (VCR or DVD Recorder) and frame TBC, or the unavailability of such devices, may require a high end capture card more robust to error in the inputs, like BrighEye, Canopus NX or similar.
About HDMI, the only quality workflow is to use a specific DVD Recorder to digitize the signal (it plays then the role of the capture card) and send the digital flow to its hdmi output, that you can capture with a specific card. The advantage is to avoid multiple A/D lossy conversions, the downside is some inherent video level problem or potential non conformity of hdmi signal to standards. -
.....provided that these S-VHS tapes were recorded with an S-VHS machine.
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@hec52, yes, it's was recommended by a very expensive SVHS camera.
@zing269, Thank you for the article very interesting..
@lollo, thank you for all the tips. The videos are in very good condition. It was well saved.
@dellsam34, Thank you for all the info and for the added points regarding TBC.
Ok. I'm start doing some homework. And will post new things when I need more hep. -
Speaking of unlimited budget, bhphotovideo has the BrightEye 75 on a special order, It is built in frame TBC insures uninterrupted captures without audio drift, SingMai has the SM03 capture device and built in both line and frame TBC with more advanced picture features, it is cheaper but I haven't tried it so I cannot comment on its performance, Daniel the developer himself assured me that it works great based on a feedback he received from his clients. Both devices have only SDI digital output, so you would need a SDI/PCIe or SDI/USB3 adapter to get the footage into hard drive, But all the analog to digital computation is done outside the computer, so your CPU usage stays very low.
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I have SVHS, So I'm not sure those hardware it matching. Also I do not need restoration, the videos are in a good conditions. It's from the 1990+.
Regarding BrighEye. I don't understand what it input is. The S-VIDEO output (YCbCr) gave a better quality than the composite video. So I'm not sure it's matches
Same for SM03, the demos are from VHS, and not SVHS. -
S-Video socket on your VCR has 4 pins, 2 pins are called luma or Y, and 2 pins are chroma or C (So it is YC not YCbCr), The devices listed above capture any tape format, VHS, S-VHS, V8, Hi8, Beta, V2000 ....etc. Their inputs called BNC, one for Y and one for C, if you have composite you only need to connect to Y. To connect a consumer VCR that has S-Video socket you would need S-Video to BNC adapter cable (see below), It only differs in physical shape, the signal carried is exactly the same, no conversion or loss, Professionals use BNC connectors for their rigidity, firm connection and better shielding against noise.
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Thank you. I found that the Panasonic HS-1000 is still working. It has a built-in TBC with SCART output.
Do I need one more TBC, or is it enough? The cassettes are in good condition.
Is it better to capture from SCART no? (The cassettes are SVHS)
I found on Amazon:
Hilitand Professional USB2.0 SCART Capture Card
It is good for capturing? Do you have a link to a better capture card for SCART? -
SCART, S-Video, Dual BNC, they are different connectors but all carry the exact same signal Y-C, Worry about the performance of the devices not the shape of their connectors, I don't own a Panasonic VCR so I don't know, That SCART capture device looks like a money grab to me, Just use the Elgato you have for now.
The devices I linked above don't rely on the computer CPU to do the analog to digital conversion and the video quality they produce is by far the best in the business, That's why I recommended them since you said budget is no limit, I was capturing a 45 min tape using the BE75 (will soon be on my YT channel) and watching a YT video with audio at the same time, no joke. Try to do that with Elgato.
[Attachment 69084 - Click to enlarge]Last edited by dellsam34; 5th Feb 2023 at 14:36.
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I have good experiences with component output into a good converter into a prosumer SDI/HDMI recorder, my source has the VHS fresh feature, available on several Panasonic recorder devices, much better then old TBC's or JVC's with internal TBC.
even recordings made in longplay mode are no problem.
component output gives you access to better (prosumer) converters, a consumer source with HDMI output still needs a HDMI passthrough device because of HDCP and handshaking, which is present in devices that use HDMI.Last edited by Eric-jan; 7th Feb 2023 at 12:45.
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my source has the VHS fresh feature much better then old TBC's or JVC's with internal TBC
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Well you already have drawn your (own?) conclusions, so why ask, or start a battle ?
$1000 or more for an old TBC should be more "serious" ? well... i save a lot of money with my "poor combo", but if money does not matter . and if all (historical) tapes are recorded in SuperVHS there should be no problem quality wise, there are some good prosumer SDI/HDMI capture cards available.
because there are really no good consumer capture cards, even a wrong OS or firmware can be a deal breaker, a good computer setup can differ from user to user,
so replicating that .better leave a computer out, exept maybe with a prosumer SDI/HDMI capture/record card.Last edited by Eric-jan; 7th Feb 2023 at 14:17.
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For the sake of learning, What's the "VHS fresh" feature and how does it work?
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*** DIGITIZING VHS / ANALOG VIDEOS SINCE 2001**** GEAR: JVC HR-S7700MS, TOSHIBA V733EF AND MORE
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Well you already have drawn your (own?) conclusions, so why ask, or start a battle ?
What's the "VHS fresh" feature and how does it work? -
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The OP has S-VHS tapes so not sure if a VHS/DVD combo would work as a player anyway.
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Just my own experiences, you don't have to agree indeed, why i should not know, so that's easy for you to say that way
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The correct term is "VHS Refresh", it's the branding panasonic used for the tbc features in the 2005 (sans dmr-es20) and on dvd/hdd-recorders.
I've generally found it to work better and be more reliable than the built in TBC/DNR feature on the JVC decks (other than lacking some of the strong noise reduction of the vcrs which can be effective but also cause ghosting sometimes.) personally. The JVC TBC feature seems very prone to vertical jitter on unstable recordings, especially camcorder tapes, even when paired with my datavideo tbc-3000 so I don't use it all that much. Idk if the same is true for NTSC though. And as discussed elsewhere there are some issues with clipping whites without adjusting for it on the dvd-recorders (it seems less of an issue on the internal vcr on my dmr-es30 but that is a bit flimsy and lacks any picture adjustment). Granted, the JVC SVHS decks can also do that on their on on some recordings on PAL tapes so ye... pick your poison I guess.
The TBC on panasonic VCRs are different and don't seem to suffer from this vertical jitter issue, though I've only used the TBC on the NV-HS1000 personally so can't say much about the other models as the implementations vary much more. E.g the "digital process" vcrs like the AG1980P and NV-HS950, 860 and 960 which might be doing some more than just processing the Y/C output (which some extra info like head switching timing) like the newer JVCs do, I know some of the "broadcast" panasonics had digital drop-out compensation which is not something that can be replicated with an add-on device, and the older W-VHS JVCs (+ some japanese svhs variants) ran TBC on the color on the raw chroma from the tape before being upconverted to 3.58/4.43 mhz.
In any case, you want a proper SVHS deck for SVHS tapes, not just a VCR with SQPB. -
Correct, you can play SuperVHS tapes on models DMR-ESxxV where the V stands for SQPB but this is only at normal VHS resolution, but you can use it as passthrough, I guess a real perfect solution stays difficult.
But i'm still amazed, how many different type VHS recorders, and combo's where made in the past, some with unique features.Last edited by Eric-jan; 10th Feb 2023 at 14:12.
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About NTSC, nope.
But I have multiple PAL JVC decks as well (and other PAL gear), and never see this. If anything, PAL VHS can be more stable at times.
JVC only "jitters" (laymen, not jargon) when the first line is truncated or missing on a bad recording. The Panasonics (both VCR and DVD recorders) do handle that better. But it's a tiny minority of issues. The JVC is still the best 1st tool to use, followed by Panasonics. None are flawless, but the JVC gear tends to have less damning flaws.
He doesn't seem to give samples anymore, after a claim at least a year ago that showed double/blur deinterlace in one of his samples.
That claim is nonsense. Panasonic DVD recorders are not magic, and definitely harm signals more than proper JVC+TBC workflows. Panasonic workflows are budget options that can work (not "will", but "can").Last edited by lordsmurf; 8th Mar 2023 at 05:45.
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But I have multiple PAL JVC decks as well (and other PAL gear), and never see this. If anything, PAL VHS can be more stable at times.
I have seen many many PAL captures with JVCs with lineTBC and the jitter, meaning a vertical shift (up or down) of the odd field or the even field is very common.
Most of the time it is only a couple of frames over 100.000 frames, but sometime the shift occurs on many more frames (1000) for damaged tapes or bad recordings. Easily fixed in post-processing if the number of shifted fields is reasonable, a nightmare otherwise. -
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Those are usually baked errors, no hardware can remove.
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