TBC Advice in 2023 (Located in Belgium)

[Kede01]

Hello everyone,

I have taken on the task of digitizing old Video8 and Hi8 tapes, which are memories of my recently deceased grandfather and also tapes from my mother with many childhood memories. The goal is to share these memories with the entire family in an appropriate format. I first digitized all of the tapes, over a hundred, in DV via Firewire. I'm in Belgium so the tape are PAL, so I have a DV PAL 4:2:0 «*master*» , which works better than 4:1:1 NTSC, but not ideal for making real masters. I am therefore looking for a reasonably priced TBC (or alternative method?) in 2023 that will allow me to digitize uncompressed 4:2:2 10-bit.
To do this, I use a Sony EV-C500E VCR and a Blackmagic Decklink Extreme 4K video card. I therefore need a TBC between the two to avoid as many drop frames and other problems as possible. The problem is that the usual TBCs are either unavailable or exorbitantly priced, such as the AVT-8710. Do you have any suggestions for TBCs, in Europe, at a reasonable price?

Thank you all,
Q.

[dellsam34]

Some DVD recorders from Panasonic can help with stabilizing image if connected in passthrough mode, Not sure what PAL models are, Members from Europe can help on this.

[nicholasserra]

Honestly it's pretty rare that HI8 and V8 tapes have the kind of stabilization issues that VHS do. I'd give it a run without the TBC first, as they're hard to come by (especially in europe) and are very temperamental and expensive.

[oln]

8mm tapes are gonna have horizontal instability just as vhs ones do so haveing something to correct for that will help (the AVT-8710 and datavideo tbcs don't do a lot of that on their own so they're best used with something that already has a built in tbc function anyhow). DId you use the EV-C500E on the original DV transfer?

As for dvd-recorders that can be used for this, pretty much any european dvd-recorder from panasonic since we're talking about PAL area (other than maybe the very earliest ones as I'm not sure how well they work and the very late ones as I think they can only output upscaled/deinterlaced). They can end up clip bright bits of the video without some way of manually lowering the video level though, as discussed in other threads.

Other options are pioneer DVR-_30 series and newer, and sony rdr-hx_50 and newer models (+ certain toshibas like the RD-XS24). They are a bit more prone to internally dropping/inserting frames on trouble spots but also doesn't have brigthness clipping issues. Some funai-ones may also work but less familiar with those.

A bit more costly but the later hi8 and digital8 camcorders from sony also feature built in TBC function which works well. (late hitachi ones do too but in my experience the tbc in those is prone to vertical jittering). There are the top of the line hi8 vcrs that had it too but those are very rare and expensive.

[Kede01]

Thank you all for the precise feedback. What a wonderful community!

To answer the question, I first digitized in DV using a Digital8 camera (without a built-in TBC passthrough). Beyond the DV codec used, the analog conversion by the camera is poor quality. Everything is overshap, the colors are not natural (and that's outside of 4:2:0)…

I followed your advice and found an ES-10 and an EH-57 that I bought for 30€, a bargain. After several trials, everything is functional, and I have better results with the ES-10. The colors are perfect (for 8 and Hi8) and the EV-C500E sends me a clean signal in "EDIT" mode.

I will now consider the final file format of my master. Although UNCOMPRESSED 4:2:2 10Bits is obviously the best format possible for archiving, the storage space needed is a problem for me. A quick calculation gives me 20To of data for all the tapes and I need to backup it for safety so 40To needed. Since these are consumer images that have no other purpose than to preserve memories and share them with family, I think ProRes 4:2:2 HQ, also a 10 bits codec, could be a solution. But I will check the files and process the images in DaVinci to try to see a difference or not. Then make a final choice.

Thank you all again!

[lollo]

Although UNCOMPRESSED 4:2:2 10Bits is obviously the best format possible for archiving

Useless. A 4:2:2 8bits capture compressed with a lossless codec (HuffYUV or similar) is more than enough for your inputs.

[Kede01]

I wouldn't say it's useless, but it's overkill for sure. I am on a mac so I can't use HuffYUV. That's why I'm trying ProRes 422 HQ even if it is a lossy codec but known as visually lossless. I think it's the best alternative and works very well with my Blackmagic Decklink Extreme card. I will figure this out soon.

I'm open to alternative thought.

Q.

[lollo]

I'm open to alternative thought.

Blackmagic cards are not recommended for capturing analog SD video. Neither a Mac.

Provided you have a S-VHS VCR with lineTBC you can use a GV-IO USB or a Hauppauge USB-Live 2 card, under Windows 10. Or an older card like an ATI 600USB or a Pinnacle 710 USB with an older Windows OS (XP or 7). If the VCR has no Y/C output nor lineTBC add a specific DVD-R recorder in pass-through mode.

[Kede01]

Blackmagic cards are not recommended for capturing analog SD video. Neither a Mac.

Can I ask you why ?

[lollo]

Can I ask you why ?

This forum, and doom9' and digitlfaq forums have many reports of dropped frames and other problems with Blackmagic cards. Producer confirmed in the past.

Apple OSs are not the right tool for SD analog capture for stability, (recommended) card support and (recommended) capture software.

[Kede01]

Can I ask you why ?

This forum, and doom9' and digitlfaq forums have many reports of dropped frames and other problems with Blackmagic cards. Producer confirmed in the past.

Apple OSs are not the right tool for SD analog capture for stability, (recommended) card support and (recommended) capture software.

Ok thank you for letting me know. I am using Blackmagic Decklink Extreme 4K 12g PCie daily for pro work but never did with SD analog signals. I already digitalized 4 Hi8 tapes and 2 Video8 without any dropped frame using the Blackmagic Media Express capture software uncompressed 4:2:2 10bits. I’ll keep an eye on it.

So for know, I’ll keep my investigations about the best codec to use. And then maybe learn about restoration. About this last, I know I will need a PC.

[lollo]

And then maybe learn about restoration.

Have a look to the "Restoration" forum here and on doom9. Many many nice examples. It will take time to obtain good results. If you need support, just ask.

Good luck with your captures and post-processing!

[oln]

It should normally be fine with the blackmagic I think if the dvd-recorder is there to provide a stable signal. Using 4:2:2 prores HQ (or similar, not sure what's available on media express mac) should help cut down on storage needs a bit without any notable quality hit.

[Kede01]

Thank you everyone !