PAL or NTSC dvd for restoration of PAL-sourced video

[clashradio]

Hello,

I have a restoration project of the UK tv show Top of the Pops but not sure which dvd release to use. I assume PAL since the show is PAL video. Delivery will be 720 50p. The show is from 1980, dvd's 2004. I live in NTSC-land and bought this new in '04. As a test I bought the PAL release.

I deinterlaced/upscaled both dvd's. For the NTSC dvd script I used SRestore(frate=50.000) to match the PAL deinterlace.

When companies digitize these old video-sourced shows that will be released for both markets, do they do two separate renders (25fps & 29.97fps)? I can only assume the PAL dvd would be a better choice since it matches the original frame rate of the master source.

I know you guys prefer unprocessed video clips but check out the render of the two sources side by side. You'll notice the NTSC source skips one frame every five frames. I've extended the fifth frame to make it easier to see the jump. Is this normally what happens with PAL to NTSC conversion (from the transfer house)? or maybe this is caused by my script.

I realize this might be specific to this release. I can't imagine all UK or US artists' home release have a separate renderings for each market.

[Selur]

There are tons of ways to do norm conversions between NTSC and PAL.
Some are uglier than others. (see: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176104)

For the NTSC dvd script I used SRestore(frate=50.000) to match the PAL deinterlace.

without knowing the full script you used and the source that was probably wrong.

I know you guys prefer unprocessed video clips but check out the render of the two sources side by side. You'll notice the NTSC source skips one frame every five frames.

At least for me the first 33 frames are the same frame over and over again, than there is one frame motion and another 33 frames of duplicates,....
No clue, what you are doing there,...

[clashradio]

The first clip is a slo-mo video to help make it easier for me to see the missing frame(s). Attached is normal speed.

I'm sure my script for NTSC to 50fps is wrong. It was done mainly to have both dvd's converted to 50fps & compare.

Thank you for the doom9 link.

My main question is even if it's possible to get NTSC converted to 50 by using separate fields, weave, etc, since I have the PAL dvd would this be the better choice? The master tape is PAL.

Script I used for NTSC to 50fps:
a = LWlibavAudioSource("NTSC TOTP.vob")
v = LWlibavVideoSource("NTSC TOTP.vob")
AudioDub(v,a)
AssumeTFF()
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
QTGMC("faster")
SRestore(frate=50.000)
nnedi3_rpow2(2,cshift="Spline36Resize",fwidth=960, fheight=720)

[Selur]

-> use the pal source

[hello_hello]

Script I used for NTSC to 50fps:
a = LWlibavAudioSource("NTSC TOTP.vob")
v = LWlibavVideoSource("NTSC TOTP.vob")

Don't use LWlibavVideoSource for vob files. It's better to use DGIndex/DGDecode, but if you must use LWlibavVideoSource:

LWlibavVideoSource("NTSC TOTP.vob", Repeat=true)
The default of Repeat=false causes repeat flags to be ignored and the output frame rate might be wrong.

AudioDub(v,a)
AssumeTFF()
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true) <--- This shouldn't be necessary.
QTGMC("faster")
SRestore(frate=50.000)

SRestore is designed for the specific purpose of fixing video that was frame rate converted using field blending.
That doesn't appear to be what you're using it for. If it was though, you'd generally use it to output the original frame rate (only progressive) after deinterlacing.

SRestore(frate=25)

nnedi3_rpow2(2,cshift="Spline36Resize",fwidth=960, fheight=720)

It's probably a good idea to convert the colorimetry to HD when upscaling.
Add something like this to the script.

ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.601->Rec.709", clamp=0)

You should upload a sample of the original video to get any sort of useful help. You can split off a section of a vob file with something like TSMuxer or MKVToolNix. They'll produce a TS file or an MKV, but that's okay.

[clashradio]

Thank you hello_hello,

Attached is a sample from the PAL vob. I couldn't save as a direct stream for some reason. I'm sorry for the large AVI.

[jagabo]

It's not always true that the PAL DVD of a PAL TV show is better than the NTSC release. You sometimes find that the only surviving video is an NTSC conversion -- and that requires conversion back to PAL for PAL DVD, further degrading it. But in this case (PAL TOTP.avi) it looks like a clean PAL 25i video was used to make the DVD. Except you've screwed up the chroma with VirtualDub's conversion to RGB. That shouldn't be a problem when working with the original VOB files (assuming you handle it correctly).

[clashradio]

Thanks for your reply jagabo. For some reason I wasn't able to export a Direct Stream and had to convert to AVI.

[clashradio]

I've uploaded a new clip extracted by DGIndex. Sorry, still getting the hang of this.

[jagabo]

The first clip is a slo-mo video to help make it easier for me to see the missing frame(s). Attached is normal speed.

I'm sure my script for NTSC to 50fps is wrong. It was done mainly to have both dvd's converted to 50fps & compare.

Thank you for the doom9 link.

My main question is even if it's possible to get NTSC converted to 50 by using separate fields, weave, etc, since I have the PAL dvd would this be the better choice? The master tape is PAL.

Script I used for NTSC to 50fps:
a = LWlibavAudioSource("NTSC TOTP.vob")
v = LWlibavVideoSource("NTSC TOTP.vob")
AudioDub(v,a)
AssumeTFF()
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)
QTGMC("faster")
SRestore(frate=50.000)
nnedi3_rpow2(2,cshift="Spline36Resize",fwidth=960, fheight=720)

The NTSC clip's picture looks pretty clean. But I suspect it was converted from PAL to NTSC by duplicating fields. Then the way you restored it to 50p deleted frames. But the frames that were deleted aren't the same frames that were duplicated. So your final video has both duplicated and missing frames.

[clashradio]

I made the NTSC-to-50 fps script only to compare side by side with the PAL upscale. But I'm sure since the script is wrong, it makes the comparison a moot point. That slo-mo clip was just to make it easier to see where the missing frame(s) are in the NTSC source. Sort-of like when a clip is in VirtualDub and you scroll frame by frame.

I plan on using the PAL source once I figure out what is wrong with my new script using the .d2v file.