Trouble Opening, Converting Old Video "AVSEQ01.DAT"

[MEsk]

Digital-AV savants? I’ve inherited a dozen 20-year-old family video files saved in a format that flatly REFUSES to be converted, copied, opened, read, renamed or moved from the CDs on which they were originally stored. Troubleshooting and tapping into over a dozen converter programs has left me nowhere and close to tossing the disks untapped. I’d much prefer to save the files for posterity in a viewable format. Any tips?

Here’s the summary:
-- I’ve got box of 20-year-old Memorex CDs holding video files produced in a Windows environment with now-defunct Studio 8 software. The videos ran perfectly back in the day, were copied onto the CDs, then stored in a cool, dark, basement (in CD cases) until now.
-- A basic DVD player spits the CDs out as having no “play feature”.
-- Each CD opens to folders EXT, MPEGAV, SEGMENT, and VCD.
-- On each CD, the key file appears to be in the MPEGAV folder as “AVSEQ01.DAT”, usually about 125MB in size.
-- Attempts to convert, copy, or open the DAT file to a Mac desktop gets the error: “Finder can’t complete the operation because some data in AVSEQ01.DAT can’t be read or written.” Mac file “permissions” don’t appear to be the issue.
-- The following converters (and others) were tried, but each failed: Any Video Converter, iSquint, HitPaw, Movavi, MPEG StreamClip, Prism, VideoProc, VLC, VideoSolo, Wondershare UniConverter, and several free online converters.
-- I’m operating on an iMac11,3 running 10.13.6, but I have access to Windows and, potentially, Linux.

ANY insight would be appreciated.

[El Heggunte]

If you can use a Windows machine, then give a try to ISOBuster.
It can extract the VideoCD .DAT files as "normal" program streams (.MPG).

[MEsk]

Thanks for the suggestion, EH. I have to make special arrangements to camp out in Windows, but I'll give ISOBuster a try and report back.

[Hunk91]

You can try to open the .dat file with VLC.
If it plays correctly, then you can try to convertit to mp4 with VLC.

Best regards

[MEsk]

VLC won't do it. I get the error message: VLC is unable to open the MRL 'file:///Volumes/050831_1648/MPEGAV/AVSEQ01.DAT'.

[Hunk91]

Can you upload a .dat file here ?
Best regards

[MEsk]

I haven't successfully been able to do anything with the CDs' primary .DAT file, but I'm happy to try. If we get anywhere, be prepared to see family pics from long ago Here goes.

[MEsk]

Got an error, failed message. DAT files were on the list of formats accepted for upload.

[MEsk]

Sorry, DAT files were NOT on the list.

[Hunk91]

Can you try to rename them as .mpg instead of .dat?

[MEsk]

I've read about that trick, but just as I can't open or copy the DAT, neither will it allow names changes. Might all that have to do with the fact the CDs are read only? Rube that I am...is that the WHOLE problem?

[Hunk91]

Yes this might be the reason why you can't rename the extension. I've seen it before, when you copy a file from a CD it may be in read only. You will have to change the file properties (at least you can do it on Windows I don't know for MAC)

Best regards

[jagabo]

I've read about that trick, but just as I can't open or copy the DAT, neither will it allow names changes. Might all that have to do with the fact the CDs are read only? Rube that I am...is that the WHOLE problem?

Of course. Copy the DAT file to your hard drive and rename it there.

[lingyi]

The basics.

What you have a a VCD. The pre-DVD format that used Mpeg-1 in a .DAT container to create video discs on a CD. https://www.videohelp.com/vcd

Many/most standalone DVD players, except possibly early generic non-brand name models, don't support VCD playback, even though they allow CD playback. In the early '90's, I had to get a separate VCD player because my Pioneer DVD player wouldn't work. Most computer CD and DVD drives should allow playback and copying, but Macs may have that restricted in hardware and software.

Like DVD and Blu-Ray, proper VCDs must follow the appropriate disc structure that you've listed. Unlike DVDs and Blu-Rays, there's no copy protection on a properly compliant VCD, so the .DAT files should be copyable directly. On Windows, try VCDGear https://www.videohelp.com/software/vcdgear, which you may have to run as administrator or compatibility mode for Win 10 or 11. Also try some of the other programs here: https://www.videohelp.com/software?toolsearch=vcd&submit=Search&portable=&s=&orderby=Name&hits=50

Inside the .DAT container is an Mpeg-1 file that you should remux to an .MPG container because many programs won't accept the .DAT container which contains additional header information for VCD compliance. The same applies to the .TS containers in DVDs. The video inside is Mpeg-2/Mpeg-1, but should be remuxed to a .MPG container.

Note that I stated that a "proper, compliant" VCD should have no issues having the .DAT files extracted. However, there were extended non-standard types of "VCDS" such as SVCD, XVCD and KVCD that went outside the VCD standards and may be the cause of the problems.

The following is unlikely in your case because you say there were created at home. But I'm including it for others who may read this in the future. There are some VCDs from India in particular, that go far outside the VCD specs and are uncopyable due to various proprietary techniques, including physical damage to the disc or specialized software that must be executed on a PC before the disc will play. AFAIK, the disc structure appears to be VCD compliant when opened.

[lingyi]

I've read about that trick, but just as I can't open or copy the DAT, neither will it allow names changes. Might all that have to do with the fact the CDs are read only? Rube that I am...is that the WHOLE problem?

Of course. Copy the DAT file to your hard drive and rename it there.

As I stated in my post above. Just renaming the file may cause playback and editing problems because the .DAT container contains additional info in that header that may trip up programs. Use VCDGear or one of the other programs linked above to remux the file to an .MPG container.

This is especially important for use on a Mac as Apple sometimes severely restricts what types of video and audio files it would allow. Here's some links about playing VCDs and .DAT files on a Mac.

Edit: Links: https://www.google.com/search?q=vcd+on+mac&ei=FgKxY7yHOoW5kPIP2Ja5qAU&ved=0ahUKEwi86or...t=gws-wiz-serp

[jagabo]

As I stated in my post above. Just renaming the file may cause playback and editing problems because the .DAT container contains additional info in that header that may trip up programs.

Of course. But it's an easy first thing to try. Or just play the DAT file with VLC.

[lingyi]

Arrgh...forget to add the links to my post above. Added.

I haven't used VLC on my PC in years, but there is/used to be a setting on the Mac version specifically for VCD: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-do-you-play-vcd-on-mac.986125/

[Cornucopia]

@lingyi, you may already know this, but FYI .DAT isn't really a container, it is just how the ISO9660 filesystem and vcd whitebook exposes in the filesystem the pointer/link to the later mpg mode2form2 tracks from within the mode2form1 1st track. Windows carries that over since it does show the .DAT as an extension. Similarly, Windows exposes CDDA tracks as faux .CDA files, even though CDDA has no filesystem at all, just raw streams in tracks with a numerical time table of contents at the head.

*************

As mentioned, use Isobuster, vcdgear, etc to remove the mode2form2 sector data from the .DAT and save onto the hdd/ssd as std mpg files. If you copy over first, you don't have sector information from the disc available anymore to help extract, so subsequent programs cannot tell user data from the erroneous sector header data, which often results in playback and conversion issues.

Scott

[october262]

Digital-AV savants? I’ve inherited a dozen 20-year-old family video files saved in a format that flatly REFUSES to be converted, copied, opened, read, renamed or moved from the CDs on which they were originally stored. Troubleshooting and tapping into over a dozen converter programs has left me nowhere and close to tossing the disks untapped. I’d much prefer to save the files for posterity in a viewable format. Any tips?

Here’s the summary:
-- I’ve got box of 20-year-old Memorex CDs holding video files produced in a Windows environment with now-defunct Studio 8 software. The videos ran perfectly back in the day, were copied onto the CDs, then stored in a cool, dark, basement (in CD cases) until now.
-- A basic DVD player spits the CDs out as having no “play feature”.
-- Each CD opens to folders EXT, MPEGAV, SEGMENT, and VCD.
-- On each CD, the key file appears to be in the MPEGAV folder as “AVSEQ01.DAT”, usually about 125MB in size.
-- Attempts to convert, copy, or open the DAT file to a Mac desktop gets the error: “Finder can’t complete the operation because some data in AVSEQ01.DAT can’t be read or written.” Mac file “permissions” don’t appear to be the issue.
-- The following converters (and others) were tried, but each failed: Any Video Converter, iSquint, HitPaw, Movavi, MPEG StreamClip, Prism, VideoProc, VLC, VideoSolo, Wondershare UniConverter, and several free online converters.
-- I’m operating on an iMac11,3 running 10.13.6, but I have access to Windows and, potentially, Linux.

ANY insight would be appreciated.

try with ffmpeg - https://video.stackexchange.com/questions/22438/easily-convert-archive-a-bunch-of-low-...g-1-2-to-newer

[DB83]

It has already been stated that programs such as VLC should have no issues in playing back a properly 'authored' VCD - although you physically have to select 'VCD' from the 'Open Disk' options. Yet there is, as also stated' much simpler playback, at least, options.

Which leads me to think that the OP does not have properly 'authored' VCDs. True that the folders MPEGAV etc. are correct but these should exist on the disk without any higher-level folders. And if I read reply #5 correctly there are higher-level folders which will not be allowed at playback.

[MEsk]

Yes, lingyi! You are so right on.

The VCD info link for Mireth you provided above is one I discovered yesterday and began to comb over. Explanations for some of the difficulty here are given by Mireth and on Wikipedia. Compact Disc Digital Videos (VCDs) are older video technology that was almost completely eclipsed by DVDs. VCDs are generally less playable on current systems due to "lack of backward compatibility for the older MPEG-1 format, inability to read MPEG-1 in .dat files alongside MPEG-1...or inability to read CD-ROM XA discs."

So, I've loaded a Mireth Technology (Canadian) program (Mac VCD X) on my iMac that recognizes and smoothly OPENS and PLAYS the VCDs (yeah, baby!). Whether or not I can convert those video files into a more generally playable format is yet to be seen.

Couple of miscellaneous responses:
-- lingyi: I tried to coax VCL to latch on to ANY file on these VCDs...that was a no go, which leads me to think perhaps there is some error in or restriction operating on the VCDs; especially since such a wide variety of converters have been spitting them out.
-- october262: I tried setting up my iMac for using ffmpeg, which I've never had occasion to use, but I ran into problems loading Apple command line tools (so say the error screens) due the age of my iMac (2010). I'm gonna look into workarounds on that issue later, since ffmpeg may well have prevented this whole VCD difficulty.
-- lingyi: If I'm going to make the VCDs broadly useable, I may an idiot-book version of this: "Inside the .DAT container is an Mpeg-1 file that you should remux to an .MPG container because many programs won't accept the .DAT container which contains additional header information for VCD compliance. The same applies to the .TS containers in DVDs. The video inside is Mpeg-2/Mpeg-1, but should be remuxed to a .MPG container."
DB83: My Dad authored the VCDs on his home computer I think they're mostly home slides of me and my siblings before we could talk.
-- Many thanks to all who've contributed ideas and expertise here...very helpful and assuring to see great brains troubleshooting.

[DB83]

^^ Glad to read that you now have found a program to play your VCDs.

But it will cost you $$ to get the promised potential from it. And if this program can play them I really see no reason why VLC can not - and it's FREE. Like I said, and with reference to VLC under Windows, VLC will not automatically play a VCD since disk playback defaults to DVD. But I see playback buttons - DVD, Blu-Ray,Audio and SVCD/VCD when one selects 'Open Disk' from the menu. Followed then by 'Play'


I am not a Mac user (very few of us are) and my comment on these 'high-level' folders was simply an interpretation of what I saw in your reply - I do know that Macs are a little different to Windoze systems And with that in mind these options may not be present as such on the Mac Version. Even so the page that links to the program you use does mention VLC and others such as QuickTime.

[lingyi]

@lingyi, you may already know this, but FYI .DAT isn't really a container, it is just how the ISO9660 filesystem and vcd whitebook exposes in the filesystem the pointer/link to the later mpg mode2form2 tracks from within the mode2form1 1st track. Windows carries that over since it does show the .DAT as an extension. Similarly, Windows exposes CDDA tracks as faux .CDA files, even though CDDA has no filesystem at all, just raw streams in tracks with a numerical time table of contents at the head.

Scott

Thank you for the info. I thought it was a container because of the way Windows handles it. Rarely used a Mac and have no access to one now.

[lingyi]

@MEsk

Good to hear you're able to access the discs. As Cornucopia said, extract the .DAT files on Windows and you'll have a widely compatible clean Mpeg-1 file.

[MEsk]

Had I been operating in a PC environment, my problem VCDs may not have been problematic. C’est la vie. At any rate, the Merith software opens and plays the VCDs and can convert them to MOVs. Then, from MOVS to MP4s is a no brainer. Recognizing VCDs for what they are seems to be key here, but--as is often the case with antiques--it can be tough to understand what you're looking at. I spent a lot of time dithering over the heavy DAT files, wondering how they "worked", duh. The new MP4 files are flawless And to think I'd tossed the VCDs into the recycle box! I'm still going to advocate for backward compatibility at every opportunity. What's NOT to like about that term? It even SOUNDS nice. Thanks to all.




DB83: I've had VLC (3.0.18 for Mac) on board a long while, but it doesn't give me the playback options you've got...could be my iMac's age.

[Cornucopia]

Understand that by converting to MOV and then mp4 (likely h264), from mpg1, you are re-encoding at least once but probably twice, lossily. Which means you would have greater, and likely noticeable, quality loss compared to simply remuxing the DAT --> MPG --> MP4. Since mpeg1 is fully backwards compatible with the mp4 container, it has no issue with bringing that material foward. And mpeg1 should still be easily playable on most devices, though in an mp4 container it might be a surprise (not a surprise in mpg container).
Since you have already done the conversion, just food for thought for next time...


Scott

[MEsk]

Cornucopia: Hmmm. Funny you should mention the quality loss. It WAS noticeable...and just when I'd thought I'd had a major victory. I've just processed one of the large cache of VCDs there is to process. I'll reconsider the DAT and look into remuxing, which will be completely new territory. Using ffmpeg? There's more to examine, too. The videos were produced from old, but high-quality, well-preserved Kodak slides, which are sharp and clear, but on the VCDs everything looks ill focused. I think there was quite a bit of data loss from the original scan to the VCDs (compression?) and--if that's generally the case--I may have to go back to square one with slide scanning. Thanks you for sharing your expertise!

[jagabo]

The videos were produced from old, but high-quality, well-preserved Kodak slides, which are sharp and clear, but on the VCDs everything looks ill focused.

You converted sides with a resolution of roughly 4000x3000 down to VCD which is 352x240 (or 352x288 PAL). Of course you lost a lot.

The MOV and MP4 containers can hold MPEG1 video and mp2 audio from VCD DAT files. Make sure your "rip" from VCD to MOV doesn't re-encode, just remuxes.

Here's a 60 second VCD remux to MOV with ffmpeg, and a reencode of the mov to mp4 with h.264 and aac, again with ffmpeg.

ffmpeg -ss 00:00:00.000 -to 00:01:00 -i source.dat -c copy remux.mov
ffmpeg -i remux.mov reencode.mp4

You should be able to accomplish those two steps with ffmpegx (Mac version of ffmpeg with GUI).

[El Heggunte]

........
The videos were produced from old, but high-quality, well-preserved Kodak slides, which are sharp and clear,
but on the VCDs everything looks ill focused. I think there was quite a bit of data loss from the original scan to the VCDs (compression?) and--if that's generally the case--I may have to go back to square one with slide scanning. Thanks you for sharing your expertise!

"MPEG-1 stills" for VCD must use a high-quality quantization matrix if you want to minimize the quality loss through recompression.
The default MPEG quantization matrix may look acceptable for video, but it sucks at creating still images or slide shows.
For the curious: mpeg2enc supports very-high quality matrices and mplex should be used for multiplexing VCD-compliant MPEG-1 stills.
https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1381010&postcount=46

[lingyi]

I may have to go back to square one with slide scanning.

To me, this is a no brainer, game changer. No matter how the VCD was done, the quality of Mpeg-1 that's VCD compliant is no where near what what you can get from a slide or even better, negative scan. Same if you have the original source of the videos.

The only question is how much time, money and learning you're willing to put in vs the sentimental value of what you have. potentially very good vs fair at best.