DVIO vs. WinDV vs. ScenalyzerLive - Which one to use?

[phelissimo_]

Hello,

just for confirmation - if I understood right, they all do the same thing: transfer the DV stream from the cam and packing it into either a DV-AVI type 1 or DV-AVI type 2.
But are there any big noticeable differences between files produced by the 3?
Which one of the listed programs does the most basic job (with no extra stuff) and is easy to configure and best performing on an old PC (Pentium M 1,86GHz 800MHz, 1GB RAM, Win XP, Laptop)?
DVIO has the least adjustable settings, ScLive the most - but which one to use? All the programs work with my JVC camera, but I've mostly used WinDV before.

I plan to re-rip all my MiniDV tapes so I want to be sure before the camera dies (it already shows errors from time to time and the mech sounds really crippled when rewinding and ff-ing), but it still plays perfectly.

[Alwyn]

If they all work on your computer, and they all produce a 13gb DV codec AVI (assuming PAL), you should use the one that gives you the most control, although it only takes a few clicks to set up WinDV and Scenalyser. Scenalyser is the most capable, post-capture, but if that wasn't a consideration (say if you're taking your captured DV-AVIs into a separate editor) then WinDV would be my choice (not having used DVIO). Of course, if you want to manipulate your DV files after capture (eg rough trims, joins), you can always use Scenalyser.

I suppose the question should be asked: why are you re-ripping them?

[phelissimo_]

If they all work on your computer, and they all produce a 13gb DV codec AVI (assuming PAL), you should use the one that gives you the most control

With WinDV I have always the feeling that it does not record from the first frame on the tape but starts too early and then I get dropped frames or a bit too late.
Also, what are the reccomended settings?

Scenalyser is the most capable, post-capture, but if that wasn't a consideration

Yeah, I just want the raw DV streams from the tape.

I suppose the question should be asked: why are you re-ripping them?

Lost some of the original files and I don't remember what settings + programs I used.

[dellsam34]

Just get familiar with Sclive, The best, you won't regret it.

[phelissimo_]

Just get familiar with Sclive, The best, you won't regret it.

What are the benefits to WinDV?

[dellsam34]

More stable streams, better options.

[Skiller]

My vote goes to Sclive as well, for the named reasons.

[lordsmurf]

I have always the feeling that it does not record from the first frame on the tape
I get dropped frames or a bit too late.

This isn't the fault of WinDV, but a failing of the DV transfer method itself.

[aedipuss]

I have always the feeling that it does not record from the first frame on the tape
I get dropped frames or a bit too late.

This isn't the fault of WinDV, but a failing of the DV transfer method itself.

a 10 second roll-in and roll-out can help with any type of video recording.

[DB83]

TBH

Never heard before this thread of DVIO


Never had an issue with WinDV


IMHO ScLive simply complicates the issue of a 1:1 transfer of what is on a DV tape


Of course both the latter (never used the former) can record either in Type 1 or Type 2 DV. But as LS states (and I will always not agree with him) that any transfer is a marriage between hardware ,software and OS. And in any marriage, 2 is company, 3 is a potential divorce

[phelissimo_]

Okay, so basically WinDV is simpler and if I want more functionality I should use ScLive?
What would be the best settings for WinDV?

[ron spencer]

Okay, so basically WinDV is simpler and if I want more functionality I should use ScLive?
What would be the best settings for WinDV?

for WinDV

1. Set Discontinuity Threshold to 0 for a non-stop file making
2. For Max AVI set high as can (1000000)

This will ensure that you get 1 big avi file.

Hit the "Config" button to get these options.

Choose a Type 1 AVI

Store the interleaved data as one stream in the AVI file. This is known as a type-1 file.
Split the interleaved data into separate audio and video streams. This is known as a type-2 file.

[lollo]

My vote goes to Sclive as well, for the named reasons.

Same for me.

[_Al_]

Also fan of ScLive here,
if you plan to edit those DV footage's, it is a must to capture into clips by scenes (as you recorded), and those clips have names as datestamp (do not remember if that is a default settings or you have to select it). This way you always know when each clip was recorded. If editing, selecting all in a directory and dropping it into videoeditors timeline, would perfectly work. Clips will be lined up in the same order as they were recorded. You simply delete unwanted clips (they always are, or make them shorter), then you can export DV avi again and all will be done without re-encoding, same quality as was captured (Dv avi is I-frames only).

SClive also works unbelievably well when you look for a particular scene in Dv avi from your history. Because you just load it, navigate into a directory (make a habit to capture each tape to separate directory named by date stamp), then you can see videos and moving scroll bar down or up looking for particular color pattern and visual , you will know when you try it. You will find your clip in no time. At the same time scrolling a clip horizontally , viewer would update a frame, so no problem to find a scenes in longer or long clip as well.

[lollo]

so no problem to find a scenes in longer or long clip as well.

yes, very important when you need to recapture a segment because DV concealment errors or dropouts (tape indexing)

[phelissimo_]

Okay, any special things worth noting when using ScLive?

[MrRom92]

I am trying to transfer DVs, exploring all the options as of this morning… none are without their own issues but so far SClive seems to be the most configurable. It runs in windows 11 and the worst thing I can say about this is that it doesn’t seem to recognize my RAID array as a drive with usable space, so I have to capture to my C drive first. Also, the preview is a bit stuttery and annoying to watch.

There is a utility called “DVgrab” for Linux that I think may be more robust but I’m not sure how to possibly run it in windows.

[ltfmaz]

all DV capturer is doing one job as a data backup machine.
they just copy the tape data via 1394 data link.
so, if no drop, all the quality should be same since the digital data on DV tape is same.

a DV camcorder's logic is same as a DDS backup machine. I remember in early 21st century there is a software can adopt a DV camcorder to backup normal PC data via 1394 port.

[MrRom92]

all DV capturer is doing one job as a data backup machine.
they just copy the tape data via 1394 data link.
so, if no drop, all the quality should be same since the digital data on DV tape is same.

a DV camcorder's logic is same as a DDS backup machine. I remember in early 21st century there is a software can adopt a DV camcorder to backup normal PC data via 1394 port.

How I wish there were a DDS-style drive that could simply read out the data from a tape. none of this error-ridden real-time playback capture over firewire nonsense!

Unfortunately given existing methods of transferring the data there is no way to know for sure it is done "correctly" - ie. no corruption of the data.

I transferred one MiniDV tape yesterday (using scenalyzer), and only happened to notice a glitch in playback because I was babysitting the unit while the transfer was going. Once it was done, i rewound to that spot on the tape and of course, no glitch. and of course, the software didn't report any errors or dropped frames either.
Everything's perfect! Everything's fine!

I'd say it was an hour of my time wasted, but in reality it's 2 hours of my time wasted. Because now the tape will need to be transferred again.

[dellsam34]

If extracting DV from a tape is that simple it wouldn't have a whole project designated to it called DV rescue project.

[MrRom92]

If extracting DV from a tape is that simple it wouldn't have a whole project designated to it called DV rescue project.

In all my research I haven’t found any suggestion or even a mention of DV rescue. Thank you for the heads up, I will be trying this software out immediately.

[lollo]

Start with DV Analyzer https://avps-dv-analyzer.software.informer.com/

[ltfmaz]

all DV capturer is doing one job as a data backup machine.
they just copy the tape data via 1394 data link.
so, if no drop, all the quality should be same since the digital data on DV tape is same.

a DV camcorder's logic is same as a DDS backup machine. I remember in early 21st century there is a software can adopt a DV camcorder to backup normal PC data via 1394 port.

How I wish there were a DDS-style drive that could simply read out the data from a tape. none of this error-ridden real-time playback capture over firewire nonsense!

Unfortunately given existing methods of transferring the data there is no way to know for sure it is done "correctly" - ie. no corruption of the data.

I transferred one MiniDV tape yesterday (using scenalyzer), and only happened to notice a glitch in playback because I was babysitting the unit while the transfer was going. Once it was done, i rewound to that spot on the tape and of course, no glitch. and of course, the software didn't report any errors or dropped frames either.
Everything's perfect! Everything's fine!

I'd say it was an hour of my time wasted, but in reality it's 2 hours of my time wasted. Because now the tape will need to be transferred again.

correct, seems there is no DDS style machine for miniDV tape.
but in your story, sometime when OS try to overlay graphic to VGA memory, there might be error occur due to system resource problem. have you ever replay the captured video file on your PC? it may ok though there was a realtime issue on screen then.
and more, sometime the drum is not in perfect condition. one time error reading is not seldom. so we need clean the drum timely. according to the user manual of some professional DV recorder the drum should be cleaned weekly.

[MrRom92]

all DV capturer is doing one job as a data backup machine.
they just copy the tape data via 1394 data link.
so, if no drop, all the quality should be same since the digital data on DV tape is same.

a DV camcorder's logic is same as a DDS backup machine. I remember in early 21st century there is a software can adopt a DV camcorder to backup normal PC data via 1394 port.

How I wish there were a DDS-style drive that could simply read out the data from a tape. none of this error-ridden real-time playback capture over firewire nonsense!

Unfortunately given existing methods of transferring the data there is no way to know for sure it is done "correctly" - ie. no corruption of the data.

I transferred one MiniDV tape yesterday (using scenalyzer), and only happened to notice a glitch in playback because I was babysitting the unit while the transfer was going. Once it was done, i rewound to that spot on the tape and of course, no glitch. and of course, the software didn't report any errors or dropped frames either.
Everything's perfect! Everything's fine!

I'd say it was an hour of my time wasted, but in reality it's 2 hours of my time wasted. Because now the tape will need to be transferred again.

correct, seems there is no DDS style machine for miniDV tape.
but in your story, sometime when OS try to overlay graphic to VGA memory, there might be error occur due to system resource problem. have you ever replay the captured video file on your PC? it may ok though there was a realtime issue on screen then.
and more, sometime the drum is not in perfect condition. one time error reading is not seldom. so we need clean the drum timely. according to the user manual of some professional DV recorder the drum should be cleaned weekly.

Yes, the visual glitch is unfortunately in the transferred file as well, but I did notice it happening during playback on the actual unit’s LCD. During that one instance anyway.

The head on this Sony SHOULD be new and have less than an hour on it. emphasis on the should. I don’t particularly trust the person who I had service this unit but that’s an entirely different issue altogether…


I’m really interested in trying DVrescue after learning about it now - it seems to have very robust low level error detection, and the software documentation indicates that it can shuttle the tape back and retransfer portions of video where it detects issues - if I’m not misunderstanding it entirely? Seems like it can’t perform captures in Windows yet though.

[ltfmaz]

all DV capturer is doing one job as a data backup machine.
they just copy the tape data via 1394 data link.
so, if no drop, all the quality should be same since the digital data on DV tape is same.

a DV camcorder's logic is same as a DDS backup machine. I remember in early 21st century there is a software can adopt a DV camcorder to backup normal PC data via 1394 port.

How I wish there were a DDS-style drive that could simply read out the data from a tape. none of this error-ridden real-time playback capture over firewire nonsense!

Unfortunately given existing methods of transferring the data there is no way to know for sure it is done "correctly" - ie. no corruption of the data.

I transferred one MiniDV tape yesterday (using scenalyzer), and only happened to notice a glitch in playback because I was babysitting the unit while the transfer was going. Once it was done, i rewound to that spot on the tape and of course, no glitch. and of course, the software didn't report any errors or dropped frames either.
Everything's perfect! Everything's fine!

I'd say it was an hour of my time wasted, but in reality it's 2 hours of my time wasted. Because now the tape will need to be transferred again.

correct, seems there is no DDS style machine for miniDV tape.
but in your story, sometime when OS try to overlay graphic to VGA memory, there might be error occur due to system resource problem. have you ever replay the captured video file on your PC? it may ok though there was a realtime issue on screen then.
and more, sometime the drum is not in perfect condition. one time error reading is not seldom. so we need clean the drum timely. according to the user manual of some professional DV recorder the drum should be cleaned weekly.

Yes, the visual glitch is unfortunately in the transferred file as well, but I did notice it happening during playback on the actual unit’s LCD. During that one instance anyway.

The head on this Sony SHOULD be new and have less than an hour on it. emphasis on the should. I don’t particularly trust the person who I had service this unit but that’s an entirely different issue altogether…


I’m really interested in trying DVrescue after learning about it now - it seems to have very robust low level error detection, and the software documentation indicates that it can shuttle the tape back and retransfer portions of video where it detects issues - if I’m not misunderstanding it entirely? Seems like it can’t perform captures in Windows yet though.

Yes, I am also looking forward to trying DV rescue in near future..... thanks for the information provider: @dellsam34
and, just a suggestion, have you noticed that the output video color from S-VIDEO is much broader than DV port. especially with SONY cam. so my local buddies are preferring S-video analog capture.

[tmmr]

Help - I'm flummoxed! Been using Scenalyzer Live to convert mini-DV to avi, via firewire. Worked fine until the heads on both my mini-DV cameras (Canon, Samsung) started going bad and dropping/pixellating audio and video. But I have 2 DV VCR's that work well, both Panasonic, an AG-DV1000 and an AG-DV 2000. But Scenalyzer will not recognized the VCR's as input devices. Scenalyzer can start and stop the tape, but will not show the video/audio or capture anything. I tried everything - changing settings as suggested by the developer of Scenalyzer, and uninstalling and reinstalling. Nothing works. I know the firewire out of the VCR's is working because I tested.

So I downloaded winDV, and same problem. It will recognize the mini-DV cameras but not the VCRs. I bought a mini-DV to mp4 conversion device from ClearClick but the quality is not as good as converting to avi with Scenalyzer via firewire. Anyone had this problem or have a solution?

[dellsam34]

Make sure to select the deck as a player via firewire, Go through the manual settings.

[tmmr]

Make sure to select the deck as a player via firewire, Go through the manual settings.

I did that in Scenalyzer and it doesn't make any difference, it still doesn't recognize/display/capture the video. Even though the Panasonic VCR is set as the input device. In winDV, I don't see any way to change the default setting of "Microsoft DV Camera and VCR".

[dellsam34]

No, in the deck menu, not the DV software.

[Alwyn]

Go through the manual settings.

There's nothing in this manual that indicates there is a manual output-select function.