Aspect ratio and video picture size issue DVD

[njemje]

Trying to figure how to make a correct picture size for a video to a DVD.

The file was converted to 720x480 size, 16:9 aspect ratio, 23,9 fps.

As seen on the screenshot, there appears a black frame around the picture and I want to remove it, or at least part of the frame somehow without it looking dorky.

Not sure if this is common due to the aspect ratio or image size. What do you suggest?



[Attachment 68222 - Click to enlarge]

[davexnet]

What steps did you follow and what programs did you use

[jagabo]

My guess is that's a 1.85:1 movie. Crop away the black borders (leaving ~608x390) and resize to a 1.85:1 frame size (~720x380).

[Alwyn]

Looks more like a 16:9 (1.78:1) to me:

720x380 (1.85:1):

[Attachment 68223 - Click to enlarge]

720x405 (1.78:1):

[Attachment 68224 - Click to enlarge]

[Cornucopia]

As you mentioned, it is going to a DVD, so your resulting mpg2 video MUST be one of the valid resolutions as per the spec. Since you are in Australia, the normal PAL default of 720x576 would be the optimal choice.

Your source should be 16:9 already (or maybe 1.85 as mentioned by jagabo). Regardless, the source should be modified to fill out to a 16:9 ratio, and then resized to 720x576 ANAMORPHICLY, and encoded that way, with the DAR flagged as 16:9.
Then, your resulting image will look totally proper when played back by a DVD player (and any other app that recognizes and honors DVD ar flags). If you look at this interim encoded file, it may look wrong to you (probably because you are using an app that assumes 1:1 pixel AR, which doesn't exist with any DVDs). Ignore the feeling.

Scott

[ProWo]

Use clever FFmpeg-GUI.
Load your video, click main, click encode video stream, click crop detect.


[Attachment 68233 - Click to enlarge]

click 2 or 3 times next crop, the crop values should remain the same, check the result with preview.
If you see the full frame without black borders, click OK, done.
In the next window set all like in the picture, signed in red. Leave all other settings as they are and click encode.


[Attachment 68257 - Click to enlarge]

If done, you find your new video without black bars in the target folder.

[Alwyn]

Prowo, that is great. It worked a treat here. Autocrop was spot on.

[jagabo]

I just noticed in the screen shot the filename is "MARNIE". Is that "When Marnie Was There", the Studio Ghibli movie?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3398268/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_6

According to IMDB that's a 1.85:1 movie.

I missed that you were looking to make a DVD. It looks lie ProWo's Clever ffmpeg GUI has you covered there.

[Alwyn]

According to IMDB that's a 1.85:1 movie.

Won't that throw a spanner in the works because it'll need black bars top and bottom (unless the sides are cropped off)?

[jagabo]

According to IMDB that's a 1.85:1 movie.

Won't that throw a spanner in the works because it'll need black bars top and bottom (unless the sides are cropped off)?

I didn't look closely, I just assumed Clever ffmpeg GUI would handle it properly. And yes there should be small black borders top and bottom for DVD. My earlier instructions were for making a square pixel video file, not a DVD.

[ProWo]

According to IMDB that's a 1.85:1 movie.

Won't that throw a spanner in the works because it'll need black bars top and bottom (unless the sides are cropped off)?

I didn't look closely, I just assumed Clever ffmpeg GUI would handle it properly. And yes there should be small black borders top and bottom for DVD. My earlier instructions were for making a square pixel video file, not a DVD.

If you want a 1:85 output use this values:


[Attachment 68239 - Click to enlarge]

[Cornucopia]

Not for PAL, you shouldn't.

Scott

[ProWo]

Not for PAL, you shouldn't.

Scott

for NTSC, of course

[Sharc]

AFAIK, for a 1.85:1 movie on a 16:9 DVD:

NTSC, frame size 720x480i, 29.97fps
- the active picture should be 720x460 (Generic PAR) with top and bottom padding bars of 10 pixels each
- or if the original source was analog video: the active picture should be 704x460 (ITU PAR) with left and right padding bars of 8 pixels each and top and bottom padding bars of 10 pixels each. Can be rescaled and slightly cropped to avoid the bars, or authored as 704x480 16:9 DVD to avoid the side pillars.

PAL, frame size 720x576i, 25fps
- the active picture should be 720x554 (Generic PAR) with top and bottom bars of 11 pixels each
- or if the original source was analog video: the active picture should be 704x554 (ITU PAR) with left and right padding bars of 8 pixels each and top and bottom padding bars of 11 pixels each. Can be rescaled and slightly cropped to avoid the bars, or authored as 704x576 16:9 DVD to avoid the side pillars.

[ProWo]

AFAIK, for a 1.85:1 movie on a 16:9 DVD:

NTSC, frame size 720x480i, 29.97fps
- the active picture should be 720x460 (Generic PAR) with top and bottom padding bars of 10 pixels each
- or if the original source was analog video: the active picture should be 704x460 (ITU PAR) with left and right padding bars of 8 pixels each and top and bottom padding bars of 10 pixels each. Can be rescaled and slightly cropped to avoid the bars, or authored as 704x480 16:9 DVD to avoid the side pillars.

PAL, frame size 720x576i, 25fps
- the active picture should be 720x554 (Generic PAR) with top and bottom bars of 11 pixels each
- or if the original source was analog video: the active picture should be 704x554 (ITU PAR) with left and right padding bars of 8 pixels each and top and bottom padding bars of 11 pixels each. Can be rescaled and slightly cropped to avoid the bars, or authored as 704x576 16:9 DVD to avoid the side pillars.

Could you show us your calculation formula?

[Sharc]

Could you show us your calculation formula?

ok, so taking the first case as an example:

Movie_width = 1.85 (MW)
Movie_height= 1.0 (MH)

The generic Pixel Aspect Ratio for a 16:9 anamorphic NTSC DVD is 32:27=1.185185185 (PAR)

DVD frame width is 720 (FW)
DVD frame height is 480 for NTSC (FH)

The encoded movie width (active picture) on DVD is 720 (EMW)
=> Encoded movie height (active picture) on DVD = PAR*FW/MW = 1.185185*720/1.85 = 461.26 => rounded to 460
The 460 have to be padded to 480 for NTSC DVD compliance=> 10 top + 10 bottom for symmetry reasons

... and similar for the remaining 3 cases.

For mpeg2 encoding it is usually recommended make above calculated dimensions mod16 compliant (by cropping & resizing accordingly for minimum aspect ratio error).

[ProWo]

461.26 / 8 rounded * 8 = 464 (mod 8)
461.26 / 16 rounded * 16 = 464 (mod 16)
so in my calculation it is 464 pixel height, padded to 480 ==> black bars with 8 pixel top and 8 pixel bottom.

[njemje]

Thank you. I think the original size was 720x480, having 23,97 fps. Since the original file was lost somehow, I cannot make certain the original aspect ratio.

Due to the fps and picture size is both close to NTSC and PAL, I am not sure which would suit best for a DVD however, as well as which aspect ratio would be most suitable, or closest to 1:85:1
I dont want the characters to end up like extremly thin or obese on screen haha....

Converting 23,97 to 29,97 FPS would induce frame drop wouldn't it?

[Sharc]

461.26 / 8 rounded * 8 = 464 (mod 8)
461.26 / 16 rounded * 16 = 464 (mod 16)
so in my calculation it is 464 pixel height, padded to 480 ==> black bars with 8 pixel top and 8 pixel bottom.

Yes, that's a valid compromise. The mpeg2 encoder then gets 50% black and 50% picture in the top and bottom 16x16 macroblocks.
Other options would be to add 16 pixels black bars either at the top or at the bottom only, so everything becomes mod16.

If the source is already letterboxed, the borders are sometimes fuzzy and one may prefer to crop into the picture and add 16 pixels bars on top and at the bottom.

There are choices .....

The one thing I would avoid are "slight" resizes just to fit (fill) the screen a bit better.

[Sharc]

Converting 23,97 to 29,97 FPS would induce frame drop wouldn't it?

If your source is 23.976fps progressive video you could just (soft-) telecine it for 29.97fps NTSC compliance.

[njemje]

Okay, so I found the source file finally with all mediainfo.

720p (1280x720 pixels), 16:9 ratio, 23,97 fps, progressive

I am not sure what I did to make all the borders appear in the beginning, as I assume there were only top and bottom borders in the original file. I might need to aquire the original file and start over. But I get 720p to become 720x405 pixles not x480, maybe that is a reason to the border problems? Should it be converted in another way?

[njemje]

And I beg you pardon for not giving thanks for the help so far.

[Bwaak]

I get 720p to become 720x405 pixles not x480

No relation. Unless you care about Rec. 601 origins:

Progressive scan systems at 1280 pixels per line and 720 lines per frame are also a member of the “720-pixel” family. 720 pixels x 4/3 (resolution improvement) x 4/3 (16:9 aspect ratio adjustment) = 1280. Accommodating the Hollywood and computer communities’ request for “square-pixels”, meant that the number of lines should be 1280 x (9/16) = 720.

But really, 720p is related to 720x480 or 720x576, not to 720x405. Do not forget that pixels do not need to be square, and for your own usage you can choose whatever frame size and pixel aspect ratio you like.

[Sharc]

Okay, so I found the source file finally with all mediainfo.

720p (1280x720 pixels), 16:9 ratio, 23,97 fps, progressive

I am not sure what I did to make all the borders appear in the beginning, as I assume there were only top and bottom borders in the original file. I might need to aquire the original file and start over. But I get 720p to become 720x405 pixles not x480, maybe that is a reason to the border problems? Should it be converted in another way?

If this is a 1.85:1 movie in a 1280x720 square pixels frame, it will have top and bottom borders of 14 pixels each, and the active picture is 1280x692 accordingly (=1.85:1). No side borders.
For converting it to an NTSC DVD you may simply resize the 1280x720 frame (including the borders) to 720x480 and encode it mpeg2 with 3:2 pulldown to make it 29.97fps, and eventually author it as a 16:9 NTSC DVD with ac3 audio, and burn the disc.

Or post a sample of the source (few seconds video, not a screenshot).

[Cornucopia]

720p isn't really related to any of the SD resolutions.

No you cannot choose whatever frame size you like, if you are expecting it to play properly as a DVD-Video in a DVD player.

If you have access to the original NTSC DVD (720x40 @23.976 coded into 29.97) you can likely just play that in a DVD Player as it is, since many PAL players and displays are designed to accept NTSC media as well.

If direct playback of original/ripped material is not an option, the next best option is to convert NTSC SD to PAL SD directly. That means not creating an interim HD square pixel asset.

If, on the other hand, that HD asset is all you have left, it doesn't make sense to try to re-use NTSC formatted settings in a PAL-based country.


Scott

[davexnet]

Probably best to use AvstoDVD to create a DVD from his 720p source

[Alwyn]

@Scott, I see no indication that the OP is in Australia or needs a PAL DVD.

[Bwaak]

No you cannot choose whatever frame size you like, if you are expecting it to play properly as a DVD-Video in a DVD player.

Right. I missed the requirement to burn it on a DVD.

[ProWo]

Okay, so I found the source file finally with all mediainfo.

720p (1280x720 pixels), 16:9 ratio, 23,97 fps, progressive

I am not sure what I did to make all the borders appear in the beginning, as I assume there were only top and bottom borders in the original file. I might need to aquire the original file and start over. But I get 720p to become 720x405 pixles not x480, maybe that is a reason to the border problems? Should it be converted in another way?

post the full mediainfo report (text mode) here.

[njemje]

Okay, so I found the source file finally with all mediainfo.

720p (1280x720 pixels), 16:9 ratio, 23,97 fps, progressive

I am not sure what I did to make all the borders appear in the beginning, as I assume there were only top and bottom borders in the original file. I might need to aquire the original file and start over. But I get 720p to become 720x405 pixles not x480, maybe that is a reason to the border problems? Should it be converted in another way?

If this is a 1.85:1 movie in a 1280x720 square pixels frame, it will have top and bottom borders of 14 pixels each, and the active picture is 1280x692 accordingly (=1.85:1). No side borders.
For converting it to an NTSC DVD you may simply resize the 1280x720 frame (including the borders) to 720x480 and encode it mpeg2 with 3:2 pulldown to make it 29.97fps, and eventually author it as a 16:9 NTSC DVD with ac3 audio, and burn the disc.

Or post a sample of the source (few seconds video, not a screenshot).

Hope it worked uploading the sample