Which "version" or chipset are on new Dazzle USB capture devices?

[Xhumeka]

I see a lot of different model/versions of the Dazzle USB capture device, and a lot of them look basically the same but based on posts on these forums it seems some work better than others.

I didn't realize you could still buy these directly from Pinnacle, with support for Windows 10/11. What "version" or chipset come with the brand new devices still being sold? I was interested in taking advantage on a sale from Pinnacle ($50 Canadian and free shipping), but I can't seem to find any information about what hardware this is:

https://www.pinnaclesys.com/en/products/dazzle/dvd-recorder-hd/

I'm interested in comparing Elgato and Dazzle capture results, but I don't want to waste $50 if this Dazzle DVD Recorder HD won't work with Virtualdub, so any additional info is greatly appreciated!

[jwillis84]

Dazzle and Pinnacle/Avid/Corel have a long history.

Basically back in the dark ages they started with the first 4:2:2 capture methods with no compression, then DV 4:1:1 compression got popular, then MPEG 4:2:2 compression and finally back to 4:2:2 with no compression.

The early (non tower) Dazzles that look like little turtles with a tail, mostly use the Empia chipset, and capture un-compressed. That travels over the USB 2.0 bus chip in the back of the shell to the PC where some software codec running on the PC decides if its captured to hard disk as some form of compression or uncompressed form.

VirtualDub 1.9.11 was the last version released by Avery Lee, which for the most part only works by capturing audio and video as uncompressed; with the slight exception of support for the Plextors due to his fascination with Sailor Moon Anime in College.

Any VirtualDub after that is a "mod" or branch of the code and all bets are off with regards to control placement, hardware support and bugs or what have you.. its a new code base.

People tend to start with the canonical 1.9.11 version of VirtualDub, accept its final quirks or get frustrated and move on to their favorite branch.

Pinnacle got broke up by it last owner "Avid" and sold off as the camcorder video capture company to Corel and the PCTV video capture company to Hauppauge; the difference is the inclusion of an NTSC/ATSC or QAM/DVB-T tuner in the product or not.

Your most likely looking at the Corel products/side of the business.

The colorful turtles have a long long hardware history, but except for only two models they were all Empia based and have 64 bit drivers, which "should work" with Windows 10 and beyond.. but Microsoft keeps ratcheting down the length a time a driver signature is valid for and expiring them like popcorn. So the hardware vendor has to re-sign or get Microsofts permission to let their hardware be accepted by the next semi-annual patch update to Windows.. its a highly hostile environment to use hardware of any kind on anymore.. just ask Blackmagic.

Just be aware when you buy a capture device.. if you use a modern version of windows and let it update, every single time.. it may have been desupported by Microsoft.. so its like buying a carton of milk these days.. it has an expiration date not too far off.

Elgato is a reseller with discrimnating tastes that caters exclusively to the streaming community these days, they had the white dongle mini video decoder capture device.. i think its still available.. but its got quirks too.

There are so many variables between software and hardware and operating system (and version) you need an overlapping Venn diagram to try to not get disappointed these days.

All that said.. one of the nicer simpler VirtualDub 1.9.11 capture device that just works is the Techwell based I-O Data GV-USB2 from Japan.. its driver installer is in japanese, but once its installed.. it just works. Only problem is its hard to get for less than $75 usd and there are knock offs to avoid.

A different issue you may not be aware of yet.. is none of these clean up or compensate for video tapes that are stretched or worn or players that aren't in tip top shape. For that you need a TBC - time base corrector and Frame Sync - Frame Synchronizer, or a DVD recorder that will accept an input signal, clean it up and pass it on through to the output.. which you can then connect to one of these devices and then to your PC running VirtualDub.

I'm not addressing all the other options, compressed or uncompressed available to you here in 2022/2023.. some are rapidly receding into the past, or have been thrown over board by people eager to play with cheaper used equipment they could not afford years ago.

Hopefully you'll get lots of commentary from other readers.

[jwillis84]

Specific to your link;

The Hardware looks to be based on the 2010 Empia EM28281

Which is a final variant of the EM2800 series.

Empia (formerly Crescent) was a fabless chip foundry that develop tech and then got bought out to form Empia in China or Taiwan (I think it was China) the Empia logo still had an Orange "Crescent" reminiscent of the companies origins.

When the EM2800 series was conceived it started as a video digitizer that could not capture sound, that was offloaded to a different chip, and video decoding was offloaded to yet another chip, usually some Philips SAA device. Over time they gradually brought the separate functions on to their later chips to bring the parts count down and make manufacturing with one of their do-all audio/video capture chips less expensive.. so you didn't go with a Connexant, ViXS or some other vendors video capture chipset.

The EM2800 originally needed an off board USB bus chip to get the digital data back to the PC but even that function was brought onboard, and the USB chip registers for programming the devices attached inside the same chip eventually became standardized.. thus the longevity of the EM2800 device driver

A lot of Chinese chips are based around a hardware virtual engine, the 8051 core, its the same processor, just run at vastly different speeds. Simple tech, but unbelievably uncomplex... its all about the peripherals attached on the same die of silicon.

So while that device may look "new" its actually 12 years old.. its not very sophisticated.. the magic is all in the software that is included.

Once the chip gets the raw uncompressed video data over to the PC, then a software codec running on the PC CPU does the actual hard work of converting it into something compressed like 264 AVC or some other compression scheme.

Yeah you can skip that step.. that's becoming a more popular thing to do.. to just capture 35 GB/hr video direct to hard disk and plan to edit and then compress it later.. hard disks are getting cheaper.

But big volume often means things never get done, and then it gets destroyed or never backed up.. but people want to try to make it look good on a 4K TV screen.. which it never will.. so lots of impossible axes to grind.

Just be aware you get what you pay for.. and a $50 device is really cheap

Even today if you know all the edge cases a $100 can get you a USB3 or Thunderbolt capture device on eBay that captures a better picture.

If you wanted to go further down the rabbit hole $300-500 could get you an SDI capture device .. but thats a whole other kettle of fish.

If your a beginner.. its probably best to pursue your dreams .. until you get bored.. or get ready to try again.

[Xhumeka]

Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation!

[Alwyn]

@jwillis84, at the risk of thread drift:

Even today if you know all the edge cases a $100 can get you a USB3 or Thunderbolt capture device on eBay that captures a better picture.

Do you have a link to an example of one of these?

[dellsam34]

If your a beginner.. its probably best to pursue your dreams .. until you get bored.. or get ready to try again.

LMAO !!

Not a whole lot of analog to SDI capture devices available, Old stock is completely depleted, BE75 might be still available on a special order from the manufacturer or BHvideo but a bit pricy. There is a new comer but we have yet to see any feedback from an owner if there is ever one and the company don't want to sacrifice one for testing purposes, Don't understand why since it could generate a batch of sales for them if the results are outstanding.

[jwillis84]

@jwillis84, at the risk of thread drift:

Even today if you know all the edge cases a $100 can get you a USB3 or Thunderbolt capture device on eBay that captures a better picture.

Do you have a link to an example of one of these?

I'll get whacked for mentioning it.. but eBay currently has one for the BMD shuttle for $84 .. but you have to know the edge cases;

1. its an NEC/Bufflao (Japan) USB 3.0 chipset specific device (uD720200), the old White cardboard boxed versions came with a card and list of supported cards and laptops.. by the time the Black cardboard boxes came out.. they just "assumed" everyone knew how bad 99% of USB chipset were and stopped trying to teach people .. i never bothered with laptops..

2. it has ADV ADLLT so its not Phaselocked like a Philips decoder.. but some people refuse to believe it can eliminate top curl.. i get so tired to getting trashed about it

3. microsoft ripped the guts out of the driver signing for windows 7 and made BDM's device drivers practically uninstallable after version 10.5.4 and the Desktop Video service for matching the firmware of the shuttle to the Desktop video does not autostart.. you have to manually kick it off and then all the DirectX WDM devices are enumerated and works with most things like virtualdub, amarec or amcap.. as for mediaexpress .. you have to click (on) the preview window for audio playback to occur during recording.. not very intuitive.. and as soon as you move your mouse to another window the audio playback stops.. it a media express thing.. designer bug / preference

and since its BDM no tbc or frame sync out of the box.. so thats why you need to bring your own.. or use a pass-thru recorder to clean up and stablize the signal.. but by then what does ADLLT matter? so why argue

i've got covid right now.. so feelin a bit depressed

[dellsam34]

BM intensity shuttle works with high end VCR's and stable signal, no one denied that. The problem is that most of the people who had problems with it they have low end VCRs and couple that with bad or worn out tapes you get a hot mess.

[Eric-jan]

I guess support is bad on Window$ for BMD products, because they mostly focus on the MAC platform, the Intensity Shuttle (TB2) worked perfect for me with my MBP,(don't use it anymore) but as with all capture devices, the new OS's or computer harware will not support them anymore,(or it's just a bad device anyway) a simple china component converter to HDMI or a Analog to SDI converter from BMD works fine with a monitor/recorder, recording to Prores422LT. it's sad, but capturing with a computer is just too difficult these days, i think i'm very lucky (and happy) with my DMR-ES35V that way, a stable video signal is just the most important thing to have, but i also like to know, how cheap an other solution can be, with still good results….