Grain??? Before or after Upscaling?

[salvo00786]

Hi... I have a little question.
I want to Upscale a dvd. After deinterlacing and denoising, it is better to add Grain and Upscale, or is better Upscale and add grain?

Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

In general, it depends on the added grain size - if it's "small" then before, if it's "large" then after

It also depends on the upscaling method; some cannot handle upscaling "grain"

[rrats]

Denoising a video only to add back the noise sounds retarded

[salvo00786]

s-mp, Noise and Grain are not the same. The noise is messy and is not on the same level in the entire video. The grain is neat and on the same level for the entire video. Sometimes it's better to add grain for a more professional look of the entire video. Sometimes when you denoise, you can mask a color banding problem with grain.

[salvo00786]

Poisondeathray, for example, I have a video that I want to upscale.
This is the sequence that I use:
1) Deinterlace with QTGMC
2) Upscale and denoise with Topaz 200% with Proteus v2 (i think is better than v3)
3) Add Grain with Adobe, with the plugin Nitrate Film Convert
4) Upscale a little (only 116%) with Artemis Aliased & Moire v10 (112% to reach 1920x1080 and 4%more to cut the black borders)
5) Convert to B709 with Adobe using Lumetri.

Do you have some other suggestion, or am I wrong on something?

[rrats]

Adding fine grain onto denoised video still looks awful. Peter Jackson did it with Beatles film "get back" and it looks worse that just the denoisef version. You also seem to be upscaling the video. You know, before upscaling I really recommend not to denoise as it really hurts the fine details. Now if lordsmurf forum user was there he would probably state a giant argument against upscaling, for which I don't fully agree. But yes just leave the noise there. Also the grain in VEAI is just noise, I've tested it, grain works differently. Only true way to get fake grain is to find a telecine of 16mm or to use something like lightroom which actually does create realistic grain.

[salvo00786]

S-mp, thanks for your reply, but if you read my reply, you can see that:
First of all I use Proteus for Upscaling (Upscale and Denoise at the same time) and second i add grain with Nitrate Film Convert, (if you want to have a look, see here https://www.filmconvert.com/nitrate) in Adobe.
Now i will try Ezra Cohen 16mm/35mm Film Grain Pack that are mov file with recorded grain to use in Adobe with the function blend.

[VoodooFX]

Anyone tried ChickenDream: realistic film grain generator?

[rrats]

Well to answer your question, obviously after, and since it's upscaling, make it like 16mm grain